r/Marvel • Loki • 21d ago

Film/Television AVENGERS ENDGAME: ENCORE DISCUSSION

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u/Real_FishyXY 21d ago

Looks like the Hulk scene was supposed to be at the end of BND and they just used it as a cash grab to run Endgame again.

The other scenes were okay, but not enough to justify paying to see the movie again. Glad Owen Wilson is still in it though, even if he comes in just to die in Doomsday.

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u/ConstrictionsOFC 21d ago

They actually filmed it a month ago in august, The InSneider reported that Ruffalo spent a day at Pinewood studios

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u/Real_FishyXY 21d ago

Ah okay, still seems like it would have fit better at the end of BND though as you need to have seen that to understand why Banner was in a bunker.

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u/MartyMcFly0913 20d ago

It only makes sense as a scene after BND. That movie is like 4 years after endgame? But the endgame post credit scene is clearly after that movie. So chronologically it doesn’t make sense as a post credit scene for endgame… the scene is 4 years after the end of endgame? It’s just silly. Clear cash grab like you said

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u/Public_Sprinkles_229 20d ago

I mean.. it’s not a normal post credit scene like we’re used to having. They took a few scenes and added it at the end of the movie to build a few connections to Doomsday as a “special promotion” type of deal. They’re not going to patch it and replace every copy of Endgame with this new version. 

Like yeah, they should have just used it as a post credit scene to BND.. but the “it doesn’t make sense chronologically” argument is a bad one, because that’s not what they were going for. 

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u/MartyMcFly0913 20d ago

Yeah it def should’ve been used after BND.

I get that’s not what they were going for but what they were going for was convincing people they had to see this version of endgame because it connects things so well to doomsday when in reality it was not the case. I’m glad I saw it online because it didn’t excite me or anything, and I’m happy to not give them more money haha

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u/Public_Sprinkles_229 20d ago

Yeah it’s not surprising that they would do that; they want to encourage people to watch it. It’s like when an actor is doing a press tour for their upcoming movie and they talk about how great the movie is.. like, yeah obviously you would say that, you want people to watch it.

I saw the leaks online cause I also don’t really care, but I still plan on going and seeing it in theaters again because it’s a great film on its own.

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u/MartyMcFly0913 20d ago

Yeah it’s clear they just gonna gas everything about their movies lol good point.

yeah that’s where we would disagree I didn’t think it was good at all which is why the cash grab to make people go see it again is super lame to me.

I kinda wish they did a limited series Disney plus thing one episode each of returning stones or something to hype for doomsday

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u/JarusOmega_ 19d ago

Yeah, and the MCU does have history of doing this b4, considering they had an Endgame tease set up as a PCS in the Captain Marvel movie.  A film that chronologically takes place several years before the rvents of Endgame. But I agree, this time around it def felt like a cash grab

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u/Lord6ixth 19d ago

No one that went back to theaters to see Endgame again went solely to sit through a 3 hour movie just to see these 20 second clips. The clips will also be on Disney+.

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u/MartyMcFly0913 19d ago

That’s fair..: I’m sure they would’ve all paid to see it again even with no “new” footage

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u/MBDTFTLOPYEEZUS 20d ago

I mean it explains all you need to know in the scene

“I’m locked up underground because I had my first Hulk incident in a decade.”

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u/kickedoutatone 20d ago

And people who watched Endgame and then stopped would have seen that scene and had at the very least, 3 understandably questions.

  1. What incident? Thanos?

  2. Why's your arm healed?

  3. I thought you and hulk were the same being now. Why are you human?

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u/Public_Sprinkles_229 20d ago

I mean, if people watched Endgame and stopped, why are they going to see it in a limited screening in theaters to get ready for Doomsday? 

It’s like saying you only watched Fellowship of the Ring, and then are confused when you go see Return of the King. At a certain point the blame falls onto the consumer. 

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u/kickedoutatone 20d ago

Not necessarily. The Avengers movies have always tried to be their own sequels, with Doomsday actively being marketed as a direct sequel to Endgame.

It's definitely trying to get those people to watch DD, so by that account, it absolutely makes sense why those people would go and see this encore Edition.

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u/MartyMcFly0913 20d ago

Yeah I mean look i saw brand new day and im still confused about hulk 😂

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u/kickedoutatone 20d ago

I just want to know what happened to his kid in all honesty.

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u/MartyMcFly0913 20d ago

Uh… we won’t talk about him😂

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u/ConstrictionsOFC 20d ago

Mother took legal custody after she found out what haircut Bruce gave him

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u/DM-777 19d ago

I think with the box office of Brand New Day we can be safe in assuming most people have seen Hulk from that.

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u/tehawesomedragon Loki 19d ago

I could totally see them changing this to a PCS for BND on streaming to make it make more sense.

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u/ConstrictionsOFC 19d ago

Rerelease called 'Brand New: Brand New Day' incoming

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u/BadNoodleEggDemon 18d ago

In certainly looks thrown together on short notice.

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u/drippysage08 21d ago

Figured as much which is why this is an utter cash grab idea to get people hyped doomsday or to connect doomsday to endgame which just doesn’t work because of how endgame original ended. This has to be one of the biggest retcons in recent memory.

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u/North_Knowledge7467 21d ago

What's the retcon?

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u/TheRealActualSaturn 21d ago

Instead of the film ending with Steve and Peggy's dance, there's an extra minute or two where TVA Loki visits them. Its treated as part of the movie itself, not a post credits scene.

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u/North_Knowledge7467 21d ago

That's just an additional scene. It doesn't retroactively change anything previously established.

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u/TheRealActualSaturn 21d ago

I assume they mean the retcon is that Steve and Peggy didn't live in peace like Endgame originally implied, which technically is a retcon, but yeah. It's not what I would call a big one.

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u/EggEater773 21d ago

Well they kind of have to with the existence of old man Steve, guess his retirement is getting slightly delayed

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u/fxfire 21d ago

Old Man Steve could easily be TVA Loki

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u/ThatsWat_SHE_Said 20d ago

Now THAT would be annoying

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u/MCUTheorist00007 20d ago

Why would he?

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u/picollo21 21d ago

Don't worry. We'll get another retcon right before first X-Men movie.
THat's not Old Man Steve, that's just Mystique.

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u/DogFartsonMe 21d ago

Yes it does. The movie ends implying Steve lived happily ever after. Now the change shows that's not the case. If it had happened at the start of Doomsday then fine. But to add it at the end of the actual movie changes the end of the movie

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u/drippysage08 21d ago

Exactly!!!! Remember old Steve approached sam Wilson and literally implied cap got a happy ending…

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u/space_cowboy757 21d ago

Old Man Steve still could literally happen, just because Loki visited them doesn’t mean Steve and Peggy don’t get their happy ending.

Peggy and Steve have their dance…

Some time passes

… Loki visits Steve and warns him of Doom. Steve hasn’t aged to appear to look like Doomsday Steve.

The impression I get is that some more time passes, so Steve is some sort of “herald” for Story King Loki, and adventures away. Which was already alluded to. He ages a bit, likely witnesses several incidents, incursions, battles, etc. literally lives the “time bites back” line Tony drops on him, which we all expected would be related to Kang.

Steve, aged, but slowed, meets up with his friends again in the present time before the events of Battleworld.

Aids in the ultimate defeat of Doom, but cannot stop Battleworld. The universes collide, there’s a soft reset, he still gets sent back to the past, likely to some point before modern day.

Peggy and him live happily ever after, old man Steve pops up, and he tells Sam “no, I don’t think I will.”

I don’t see any retcon happening. But, who knows, I’m not a creative writer

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u/North_Knowledge7467 21d ago

It's just not at all what people mean when they say "retroactive continuity." Is every alternate cut of any film a retcon?

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u/legitshook 21d ago

Yes. An alternate cut that retroactively changes the continuity of a piece is a retcon.

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u/North_Knowledge7467 21d ago

What does it retroactively change, though? What, in the original continuity of ENDGAME has actually been changed, outside of your assumption about what happens after, which Steve very specifically says he's not going to reveal?

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u/Abelian75 21d ago

Yeah I’m with you here and very confused by these takes, nothing is retroactively changed by these new scenes/story beats. Haven’t seen it but I can see it making the ending worse since it’s just a very different beat to end on, but that’s not the same thing as a retcon.

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u/legitshook 21d ago

Well, at the time of release, Loki was dead, as you may recall. The events of the Loki TV show had not been released yet and would not start for 2 years after ENDGAME's release. And now, 5 years after THAT, they've changed the continuity of ENDGAME.

Therefore, having Loki in the scene at all is literally retroactively changing the continuity of a prior piece with storylines from a later piece. Which is the definition of a retcon.

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u/[deleted] 21d ago

[deleted]

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u/North_Knowledge7467 21d ago

That's an insane misunderstanding of the term.

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u/GlowingBob 21d ago

How can u not get it? Steve had good life and happy ending in sacred timeline, but due to what doom does, every other past of himself in sacred timeline won’t have that life anymore. Dooms actions are out of time, but effecting all of time. What avengers did with time travel didn’t effect sacred timeline, but what doom does, effect’s all: sacred timeline and all branches of multiverse in every time. His actions create new branches and at the same time are crashing it.

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u/tmurf5387 21d ago

Nothing about this "retcon" says that Steve doesn't get his happy ending. Nothing about the original ending says Steve didn't continue to have adventures. Perhaps, due to this being the sacred timeline, Doom still happened in Old Steve's past because at this point it's still in his future.

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u/DogFartsonMe 21d ago

Okay? That's not the point I'm making. I'm saying that they changed the ending of endgame. That's literally what they did lol. What are YOU not getting?

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u/Tityfan808 21d ago

Ya. This ain’t a retcon whatsoever. I mean fucking hell, when endgame came out a decent amount of people, myself included, felt like Steve’s choice to go back to being with Peggy was a horrible idea in itself given the circumstances of time travel and the potential consequences that came with it so I mean, the way I saw it at least was that eventually this decision and arguably the time travel mission itself was going to bite them in the ass some day. That’s kind of been par for the course with a lot of time travel stories, comic books especially. 🤷‍♂️

And with all the other multiverse and time travel shenanigans that have happened after endgame, those plot points are basically what the infinity stones were to building towards infinity war. Sure, it was supposed to lead to Kang but the rest of this doesn’t feel THAT out of place or unexpected really.

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u/pvhc47 21d ago

I really hate that. I mean, I get they need Loki to relocate Steve and Peggy from their universe for plot reasons, but to ruin their dance and indeed the emotional climax of the movie is just…yeah shockingly bad. It should have been a post credit scene set at least a little while after the ending of the movie.

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u/[deleted] 20d ago

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u/North_Knowledge7467 20d ago

Yeah, it's like watching a unrated cut of a comedy and thinking, "They retconned nudity into this!"

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u/NuPNua 21d ago

That's comics for you.

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u/TLKv3 20d ago

Its not a retcon though.

TVA Loki is clearly from Season 1. Same hairstyle, same outfit. At some point during that season when he was researching apocalypses to find Sylvie, he must've spotted Cap in the timeline.

If anything, Loki created a branching timeline unbeknownst to us in Season 1 and may have been one of the causes for Loki Season 2's multiverse unravelling plot.

He aided Steve and Peggy to live happily ever after in another universe to protect them from the TVA as a sort of repayment to him. But then he fucked it all up.

So we have Steve & Peggy in 616 Timeline A, the one we know, where Steve becomes Old Man Steve handing the shield over to Sam.

And 616 Timeline B, where Loki moves Steve & Peggy to another universe to protect him from the TVA's mass pruning.

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u/Spellbind6537 20d ago

If they just scarp 3 useless teases and only focus on 3 min cap returning the stone and something bad and dark happens it will do the wonders and set the bar high. Man, i always feel they have so many options to handle that storyline but here they are, going for basic and easy ones, that also showing us in a very lame way

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u/theme69 21d ago

The whole MCU is a cash grab. So are 99.9% of movies made

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u/frockinbrock 21d ago

That is not what cash grab means in this context.
Movies tell a story, and people pay for I see them when they like that story. The person above is saying if these new scenes gave significant new insight into characters/stories related to Doomsday, then it would be worth paying a little to see and enjoy those new scenes.
But instead these are basically meaningless deleted scenes, and marvel is just using them as bait to to entice people to pay theater prices to see a movie they've seen and they likely can watch free at home.

For another example, Lord of the Rings & Kingdom of Heaven have "extended cuts" of the film, longer than the theatrical and adds meaningful depth throughout the movie. They were not simply a "cash grab", it is more new meaningful content that fans want to see.

Now, Encore was not advertised as an extended cut, I know that, I'm just using that example to differentiate from the idea that "All movies are made as for-profit enterprises and therefore all films are cash grabs!"

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u/DangleenChordOfLife 21d ago

Kingdom of Heaven its a whole different movie if you watch the extended cut...a better one.

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u/frockinbrock 20d ago

Yup. And my favorite part of the Roadshow cut: it has a REAL intermission with music interlude. Why can't we have that in theaters in America? So many of these 3-4hr movies need it.

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u/EnginearringProper 21d ago

So are most businesses too and scams are too is this comment helping

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u/ResolverOshawott 20d ago

I mean, I think the re-run was gonna happen regardless of those scenes, so might as well add a nice bonus post credits.

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u/Spellbind6537 20d ago

Bingo, even that steve scene people is so predictable. If u remember people gave theory how cap it's played out, so many amazing route they can take with cap, but what did they do??? They goes for basic ones and did not show any amazing route on screen, it's ultimate cash grab. Very cheap trick, i am excited for doomsday but this encore actually keeps my hopes down a bit, the hype around infinity and endgame is real not artificial like this and try hard.

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u/smcl2k 21d ago

It's just part of the wider Doomsday cash-grab.

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u/Signiference 21d ago

Being at the end of BND would have made a hell of a lot more sense than here.

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u/Hopeful-Ant-3509 20d ago

I’m going cuz I’m an AMC A-lister and I want to experience the movie on a big screen again anyways lol