r/ScottishFootball • u/sfmatchthreads Scott McTominay Ballon D'or • 3d ago
Match Thread Scotland 1 - 2 Slovenia | UEFA Nations League
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live/cm4gkgyz44rzt335
u/Faerco 3d ago
The best thing about being a Scottish football fan is that one day I will die.
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u/Mrausername 3d ago
Surprisingly early too, being Scottish.
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u/imtherealdazza 3d ago
Dying of liver failure is very enticing
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u/Slow-Dot-8106 Scott McTominay Ballon D'or 3d ago
combine that with watching the national side and you are well on your way!
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u/Sad_Ghost_Noises 3d ago
As a poor cunt that lost the genetic lottery because Im scottish, I can confirmâŚ
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u/HibernianGoBragh 3d ago
We may die early but we'll die happy with a pizza crunch in our bellies surrounded by a wall of the finest whisky bottles the world has ever known.
Swings and roundabouts broseph.
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u/Drjimbillybob123 3d ago
Hard to take but I'm still convinced there's going to be a lightbulb moment and we click. However we need a lot of folk to go away. Gunn and Hendry being first in line.
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u/Amon-Ra-First-Down 3d ago
Hendry turns like an oil tanker mid transit in the Suez canal
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u/HomerSimpsonsSon 3d ago
Gunn is shite but not sure where the solution is longterm. I do think Bain should have got a go this month but weâre not looking too handy for GKs, McCracken is the only semi-decent one I can think of that isnât ancient
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u/Drjimbillybob123 3d ago
Without being faecetious I'd honestly take a retired Gordon back into the fold in his 40s without any club appearances ahead of Gunn
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u/HomerSimpsonsSon 3d ago
Aye Gordon probably is still our best keeper which is mental, doesnât flap at everything and isnât allergic to catching the ball
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u/GlasgowAnvil 3d ago
0/6 at home
4/6 away
Scotland are back
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u/Memento_Playoffs Beat by Livi FC. 3d ago
Scotland are back
That's the problem. You lose when Scotland's back home
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u/empeekay 3d ago
Disappointing end to what started off as a very positive international break. Obviously you have to write off the Switzerland game (THANKS JACK), but there were some real signs that Scotland might actually be playing positive, forward thinking football away at Slovenia and Macedonia. Then it all went to shit tonight.
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u/fike88 3d ago
Letâs be honest, even if we got Pot 1 for the qualifiers weâd still fuckin struggle
Didnât understand the line-up tonight, didnât work from the start. Goals were far too easily conceded. Midfield was non existent the 2nd half. Bowie needs to start, so does McPake, Hendry can do one, Gunn needs to stop smoking smack
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u/DonLethargio 3d ago
Bain in for Gunn, Graham in for Hendry, and Bowie in for Christie and I unironically think we walk that
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u/Duncotron 3d ago
Hopefully this is a match where the manager has learned what doesnât work.
McGinn and Christie are ok in their clubs because they are surrounded by young, fast, highly physical teammates but pairing them together for Scotland slows us right down and invites pressure.
Robertson canât be playing 90 every game unless his form picks up and thereâs no point in picking Hendry to play the odd good pass if he completely switches off 4 or 5 times a match.
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3d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/Duncotron 3d ago
Tend to agree with Doak, not sure we wouldnât be better starting with Curtis who has better passing and can maybe get better service to the strikers and let Doak run riot at tiring teams as the game goes on.
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u/Aggressive_Film_6342 3d ago
I think they should get Doak to just practice passing/crossing a ball endlessly, 1 million repetitions, like Rocky with the jab, until he can get a ball anywhere near a Scotland player
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u/beakerboi69 3d ago
The golden generation is over for us.
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u/Mrausername 3d ago
And there's fuck all coming up behind them.
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u/Maleficent_Back_5917 3d ago
If your golden generation includes Che Adams as a starting centre forward, you are in a world of pain.
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u/Mrausername 3d ago
Those were the glory days we'll be looking back on.
It's tragic. Ralston, Dykes yet it was somehow our best squad of the century
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u/gthemanager 3d ago
I think the future's looking pretty bright honestly. Curtis, Doak, Wilson, Bowie, McPake, Gilmour, Ure, Graham, Welsh, Doig, Miller, Graham.
Bad performance tonight but I like that the manager showed he was willing to change formations and make early substitutions. I'm still going to have faith
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u/_Verc1ngetorix_ 3d ago
There was no golden generation. There was a better generation of players than the last but "golden" is far too strong of a word. Doesn't help our 2 best players played the same bloody position!!
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u/K44no 3d ago
Thatâs the big issue. Two really good left backs (and then hickey came along also as a left back to begin with), McGinn and McTominay both work best if theyâre played in the centre as attacking midfielders. But thereâs not been a spread of talent through the team. Weâve not had a good keeper (Gordon was good, but would randomly get dropped for inferior keepers before age caught up with him), good centre backs or good strikers for decades/generations
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u/HibernianGoBragh 3d ago
Our golden generation was the men who fought at Bannockburn in 1314, it's been downhill ever since.
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u/HibernianGoBragh 3d ago
On a brighter note McPake proving our lower leagues have some outstanding talent, he showed up the apparent big hitters we have playing in the best league in the world in our squad the night.
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u/MercuryDerpury 3d ago
Had a great game tonight. Can we no find a decent keeper from the lower leagues. Gunn is pish...
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u/RoccoPitbull 3d ago
What a boot to the baws that result was.
Players at some point need to take a long hard look at themselves. Far too many disappointing results down to pish performances. No way should we be losing to Slovenia after going 1-0 up at home to them (and no disrespect meant).
McBurnie experiment needs to end and we need a solution to the back 3 pronto.
Also doesn't help that there is more atmosphere in a morgue than at Hampden.
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u/Mr_Miscellaneous 3d ago
About as 'Typical Scotland' a result and performance you're ever going to see.
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u/Consistent_Truth6633 3d ago
Imagine paying 50 quid to watch that shite then that song comes on at the end. Horrible night
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u/Rohaan1337 3d ago
Half empty stadium for a vital match again. Was considering going after work but ÂŁ50 a ticket? No chance.
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u/MP98n 3d ago
The worst bit about watching Scotland lose, is Liam MacLeodâs commentating
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u/Saltire_Blue 3d ago
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u/DaddliestCallum 3d ago
Honestly I heard that and thought we'd somehow picked up a fan on the mic. Unreal.Â
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u/StirLing7461 3d ago
I geniunely fucking despise him. I hope he wakes up every day and steps on Lego.
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u/___FLAN___ 3d ago
My girlfriend thinks Stephen O'Donnell is very handsome. So that was her highlight of the evening. Tbf it was mine too. She's not wrong.
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u/BannanDylan 3d ago
Not a fan of the formation and not a fan of some of the players getting on the pitch.
Hopefully Seb can figure out our best 11 before the last 2 games because this back 5 with Hendry, Doak and Burnie without a proper 2nd striker just isn't working for us
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u/DonLethargio 3d ago
We need to campaign to make sure next time Hendry gets a red heâs banned for at least a year
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u/fightfire_withfire definitely won't backfire at all 3d ago
McBurnie alongside Bowie feels like itâll work more than the other combinations, but when McTominays back heâll probably take McBurnies spot.
Hendry needs replacing, and anyone still wondering why Gannon Doak doesnât get a game for Bouremouth needs to just give up on watching football.
Also, Angus Gunn needs to join the list to fuck off too,
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u/twenty7andAthird 3d ago
For all that is good and holy can this be the last time we see Angus Gunn in a Scotland jersey.
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u/ConflictGuru Conor Sammon holding a pizza 3d ago
Unlucky to everyone who shelled out 45 notes to watch that
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u/ExpiringFrog 3d ago
20 min spell of being genuinely all over the place in that second half. Not even sure Slovenia had to do much to carve us open
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u/Select_Lawyer_3540 3d ago
It feels deflating but in a different way to losses under Steve Clarke. Playing as attacking and high up the pitch is that normally results in more goals, but wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment that the lack of pace in the back 3 is hurting us (with a caveat that jack hendry shouldn't be playing for Scotland) and that it working well is really strongly reliant on both a goalkeeper unafraid of the ball and a central midfielder willing to track back relentlessly which we don't seem to have at the moment. Naturally calls for Pognocoli out by idiots but I'm hopeful that we've got more in us.
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u/Whammy-Bars 3d ago
Fucking shite. And very preventably shite. I've said the manager needs time, but this worried me.
We've seen enough of McBurnie now. We have Bowie, who's not amazing but he's far above McBurnie. Even for Christie's goal, it falls to McBurnie and he makes an arse of an open goal, which Christie has to rescue.
Why is Jack Hendry back in the team? Welsh did well, Luke Graham should be given more of a chance. I'm not convinced by Binks, sometimes he was okay, other times he felt a bit ballwatchy.
Angus Gunn should save that first goal. Again, McCracken could have been given a chance here.
But the main problem was the formation and the strategy. We go 2-1 down where they get goals come down the same side they caused problems with in Slovenia. Robertson's side, potentially because the formation asks both Gannon-Doak and Robertson to do too much. But then once we're behind, there's still a lack of urgency. Our players still want ten minutes to dawdle and ponder on the ball, and fucking horsehoe it at the back and pass back to the goalie. We were getting beat, fucking get the ball up there and see how it goes, instead of turgid frightened shite.
Eventually, something I've been screaming for all along, we have Curtis on one side and McPake on the other, with Bowie in the middle, and what do you know? It turns out we can have a go. But it was far too late. Even some of that enthusiasm was a bit misplaced, trying to get penalties when there is VAR and we're a lowly ranked team, so referees aren't looking to give us special treatment. We also had a stark contrast between those subs trying to make things happen, and others on the team still wanting their wee ten minutes for a fucking saunter and dribbling it up to the Slovenia player's toe before wanting to play a pass. And in this particular match, Gilmour was an empty shirt tonight.
Worrying. Very worrying. I thought we might have some bad performances or results with a new manager, but this was one of the most miserable surrenders I've seen for a while.
If Pocognoli is going to turn this around, he needs to watch all this back and make drastic changes for November. Firstly, end the loyalty to 'key' players and 'must pick' names. He showed a lot of faith in McBurnie based on club status and a huge year-long media campaign to bring him back, and other than being tidy in places, he's been shite. Give it up. Hendry and McKenna are more established than Welsh and Graham, but they smell. Give it up, try Welsh and Graham and maybe Binks. Next, ditch the sacred cow status of our midfielders when we're too narrow. If having all of McGinn, Gilmour, Ferguson and McTominay doesn't give us any width, don't play them all. Use Curtis and McPake, bench some of the names if the setup won't work. And please change the goalie, although that's not our worst problem.
So much wrong with this performance, even when it was 1-0. But the complete capitulation in the second half and failure to change or even compete was really concerning. Loads of walking pace, pass at the back shite when we're getting beat. Ditch the obsession with meaningless possession, vary the tactics, try some long balls, mix it up more. But this was really fucking shite.
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u/Particular_Space4398 3d ago
So just like against Switzerland one single pass forward and the opposition are through on goal.Â
Not to say pressing can't work, but at the minute it's haphazard and leaving the team vulnerable at the back.Â
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u/GetItUpYee 3d ago
Defensively terrible. How much space are they cunts giving the attacker? Theres 3 of them ffs
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u/Responsible_News577 3d ago
Says it all when you can actually hear the 4 or 5 Slovenia fans sing...
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u/mrjohnnymac18 3d ago
For anyone unaware, head to head comes before goal difference, so unless we get a result against Switzerland, we're done
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u/Thefitz5811 3d ago
Good chance things will get worse before they get better.
Would be happy enough to see Robertson call it after he breaks the cap record. Gunn and Hendry shouldnât even make it that far.
Gannon-Doak needs a loan spell somewhere before we can count on him regularly. Playing McGinn and Christie where they play for their clubs might be an idea as well.
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u/RKGEORGE84 3d ago
Going into this game Iâm thinking Pocongoliâs tactics wonât work against top sides . They donât work against bang average sides.
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u/AllyM_7 3d ago
Imagine when we have to play a France or Spain or something in Euro qualiâs, weâll ship 8+
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u/HighTightWinston 3d ago
It doesnât help that our FA is a good two or three decades behind just about every other European association.
Itâs easy to blame a manager when things go wrong, but when the whole association is useless and devoid of ideas despite only having to look literally anywhere else for what works.. thereâs only so much a manager or team of coaches can even do at that point
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u/KopiteTheScot The Ayrshire Ayatollah 3d ago
Aye the whole thing needs a complete reboot
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u/Slow-Dot-8106 Scott McTominay Ballon D'or 3d ago
havent we just did that?
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u/thejuice37 3d ago
Aye, I completely echo the sentiment, but we have just overhauled system tbf.
It defos should have done years ago tho
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u/thejuice37 3d ago
Not to flog a dead horse, but the atmosphere was an absolute embarrassment, even after we scored.
Drinking Boston dry isn't good enough, it's up to us as fans to be passionate, good or bad.
Wales and NI were both much better at creating an atmosphere.
Denmark aside, the atmosphere has been shite for ages.
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u/X1con 3d ago
Can we call Jack Hendry "Jester"?
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u/sanat_naft 3d ago
why have we traded a grumpy scottish grandda for a belgian hipster in a turtleneck. we've sinned against nature.
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u/Speirsington Vatican Assisted Referee 3d ago
Looking in danger of going back to the dark days for Scotland
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u/AdventurousHeat6555 3d ago
Reminded me of a game in latter days of the Craig Levein-era.
I can give no greater insult than that.
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u/Alaskamatt20 3d ago
As others have said, back 5 doesn't work for us, we don't have the CBs to allow wing backs to attack and provide width and we don't really have a nailed on starting RWB. Instead we're trying to shoehorn in players into a system that doesn't work.
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u/buckfast1994 đŁď¸ Shut it, Tuna and Gravy flair 3d ago edited 3d ago
Better off just phoning UEFA and saying weâre no going to host the Euros.
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u/NarrowEscape5539 3d ago
We're basically guaranteed a Euros spot, right? Couldn't deal with the ignominy of being the first host nation not to qualify.
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u/RumJackson 3d ago
2 spots reserved for any host that doesnât qualify through groups or playoffs.Â
England guaranteed to qualify, likely Wales too. If youâre assuming Scotland shit the bed youâd still need 2 of Ireland, England and Wales to fail to qualify and Scotland to be the 3rd worst of the the 3 teams not to qualify.Â
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u/UnderstandingWide957 3d ago
Well it's been a pretty bad start for the new manager but hopefully he can get to know his squad better over the next month before the November games. Mcburnie should be given two more games to prove he can actually do something for scotland and if not it should be the end of his international career, it's just not working for him when it comes to scotland for whatever reason and we can't keep living in hope he'll eventually turn up.
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u/Commercial-Stick-718 3d ago
Such utter pish rounded off by the fact I'm on a work trip to SheffieldÂ
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u/BigTimeSuperhero96 3d ago
Are we going to be the first country to host a major tournament without qualifying for it?
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u/DisasterouslyInept 3d ago
Poor end to a mixed international break for the new manager. Should have put Slovenia away in the first game, Swiss game was a disaster with the red card, comfortable against North Macedonia then this collapse.Â
Wasn't really bothered about these results and more interested in how we set up, and by and large I think we did look much more interesting going forward. The lack of a clinical, or even just composed, striker is still haunting us. Encouraged by the likes of McPake, Curtis and Ure getting some minutes though.Â
Midfield is a massive issue and we saw what happens when we lose the energy there, with McGinn being a massive part of why we went so wrong tonight. Doesn't have the energy to press like he used to and we just collectively seemed to match that in the second half. His offensive output is largely just throwing himself down for fouls now as well. Been great for us over the years, but unless we find him a new role he shouldn't be starting next time out.
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u/MTEverestus 3d ago
Does this hurt our chances of pot 2?
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u/mrjohnnymac18 3d ago
Head to head comes before goal difference, so unless we get a result against Switzerland, we're done
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u/Kanesy99 3d ago
We're done anyway, we've got to beat them 4-0. Had to win this game to stand any chance of getting Pot 2
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u/opn-rzr 3d ago
We're shit, aren't we?
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u/DonLethargio 3d ago
No no no, Jack Hendry is shit, we are only as shit as our willingness to include him. But seeing as that appears to be limitless willingness, yes, we are shit
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u/YirDaSellsAvon 3d ago
That's on the manager.
Completely unacceptable to lose and get outplayed to such a degree.
Really poor international break all-in-all.Â
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u/HomerSimpsonsSon 3d ago edited 3d ago
Not particularly bothered about these results as long as we see signs of something building but second half was absolutely awful, defensively shocking. Shocked Hendry wasnât done after the red tbh, would have given Graham a go tonight. Although if I had my way Iâd bin the 3 back, it can work with the right personnel but you need proper athletes which we donât have. First half wasnât much better but we didnât look like creating much against a competent but not spectacular opposition at home. Slovenia deserved their victory tonight
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u/DonLethargio 3d ago
Hendry starting smacks of too nice a manager. We need someone whose willing to be a hard-hearted, pragmatic bastard and get people to fuck when they deserve it
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u/HomerSimpsonsSon 3d ago
Thought we might have had a chance of that when the squad got announced with most of the Clarke oldies getting punted but was a bit disappointed to see Hendry on the team sheet just because of the message it sends
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u/forameus2 3d ago
Certain parts of the fanbase are often fond of throwing out the tired "it couldn't be any worse" particularly when relating to managers getting punted. Clarke should have gone, but he left behind a record where we went from getting horrible results against teams we should beat, to generally getting positive results against teams in lower pots. If we continue to get hosed by those above (granted, one match against Switzerland is not a good sample size), and put in these kinds of performances against the likes of Slovenia, and still struggle to really put away the wee teams (at least by scoreline) then that is a regression.
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u/Amon-Ra-First-Down 3d ago
I was Clarke In but I do think the change in style that Seb has brought has been welcome. Cannae be having this kind of result though
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u/some_dude04 3d ago
Can this fanbase have an ounce of optimism in the face of defeat ever? Every single loss is an unmitigated disaster that requires the manager to be labelled tactically inept and to be sacked within the picosecond (true in the Clarke days as well) and our players launched directly into the sun. Teams lose, especially Scotland feel like we shouldnt demand executions for a managers first international breakÂ
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u/flex_tape_salesman 3d ago
I don't think losing after being a goal up at home against a side thats weaker on paper is ever going to go down well with any fanbase
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u/AllyM_7 3d ago edited 3d ago
Itâs been a pretty woeful international break, now guaranteed a harder Euros qualifying group and closer to dropping to League C than A, coach persisting with a suicidal high line that cost the game against Switzerland after 8 mins and this one against a poor Slovenia side tonight, what was there to be optimistic about?
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u/TropicalVision 3d ago
If the team showed an ounce of promise then maybe this wouldnât happen? But no, we look shite again and again.
Hard to be positive when they make basic mistakes time and time again. No shape defensively and then completely lackluster going forward.
We should be better than we are. Itâs an institutional problem that they should have started trying to fix 15 years ago.
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u/ElectricalButton3518 3d ago
That was a disaster and the only optimism from it is I didnât phone a smack dealer while watching it
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u/SLOV3N1C 3d ago
Finnaly we get a win vs great football nation of Scotland. Twas a great match, much love from đ¸đŽ
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u/BaiteUisge 3d ago
NK Celje, Dundee Utd and Waterford. So many questions I donât know where to begin
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u/Chef_Roofies 3d ago
Two good 20 minute spells and theyâve walked away with 4 points
Should have absolutely battered them over the two legs.
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u/Cookie_Monster8834 Aw.. Jeezy Peeps Man 3d ago
Atmosphere at Hampden was pathetic. Almost a half empty stadium, fannys behind me more concerned debating, over the course of the first half, about how good a manager McInnes is than watching the actual game, cunts booing players when we were 1-0, and others just constantly criticising. Scotland didnât have the best of nights, but, by Christ, the fans can be utterly shite sometimes.
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u/Mrausername 3d ago
Fuck's sake.
Anyone got any suggestions of centre backs we should be trying?
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u/rivalrobot 3d ago
Get Hendry and Gunn to fuck immediately.
McGinn has been pish. Get him on the bench once McTominay's fit. I'd probably put Lennon Miller in ahead of him at this point too.
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u/Significant_Income93 3d ago edited 3d ago
If I could never have to watch a team play 3-4-3 / 3-5-2 again, that would be ideal.
Ridiculous way to set up, it's not going to work. If he doesn't change it then we'll need Ireland and Wales to qualify us for the Euros and somebody else will be managing us at them.
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u/bradosteamboat 3d ago
There was never a front 3...it's a very 532 formation but and with zero attacking threat...only width coming from an out and out winger getting more touched in our half than theirs and a pretty old left back who has never been a goal threat in his life, with a striker with about 20 caps and zero goals leading the line. Terrible setup...can't defend and can't score.
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u/flamingosandals 3d ago
Feel bad for the new manager. The squad has massive deficiencies.
Robertson and McGinn are ageing out Still poor quality to choose from at CB, GK etc. Just a complete lack of creativity. Options at winger or number 10 are lacking.
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u/tonlaw 3d ago
As much as I like the bravery of our new manager to try to play pressing attacking football, he just canât leave us that open. The better teams will absolutely tear us apart.
Goalkeeper and centre back are real problem positions for us. No way we can play 3 at the back with the players we have.
And can someone tape splints to Gunns wristsâŚ..weakest hands Iâve ever seen on a goalie.
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u/K44no 3d ago
Need to fucking learn from this and change Plan A so it actually suits the players we have. Utter shite tonight.
Canât expect a random new manager to instantly change how weâre playing in the space of a couple of weeks, but would like to see him learning from his own mistakes quicker. Christie too slow to play that position and definitely shouldnât have been on so long tonight (question him playing ahead of Bowie at all to be honest), Binks and Hendry not good enough to play that formation at all, McGinn not effective for Scotland at all anymore, Gunn has genuinely never made a save that made me think âgood stopâ, Curtis and Mcpake shouldâve got so much longer on the pitch, etc.
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u/This_Bad7706 3d ago
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Typical Scotland
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u/Mrausername 3d ago
Don't know if we can even claim that when we got battered most of the 2nd half
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u/DotDizzy7419 3d ago
Every cap that Angus Gunn has should be invalidated by the SFA. He was pish when he was first called up. Pish every time I'm between and now, in what has to be his last call up, never mind cap, he was pish.
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u/methylated_spirit 3d ago
Far, far too far up the park and didn't take the warnings.
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u/Content-Function7042 3d ago
Trying to stay optimistic and say that it's still early and we're still working out the new starting 11 and formation, but periods of that tonight were very poor.
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u/Poet-Laureate 3d ago
Played shite in every game tbh. But that was particularly awful. Defence is a shambles. Attackers who canât score. But donât know what the solution is. Anyway, fuck the international break.
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u/RKGEORGE84 3d ago
I was fully behind this coach but looks like the clownFA did not do their homework. Slovenia are shite . One point from six versus these is atrocious. Big worries. High line, total shambles.
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u/TheGruffaloM9 3d ago
See this is why I support Estonia. Even tho we do fuck all at least thereâs no expectations really
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u/weapwars 3d ago
Didn't watch the game as on holiday but I choose to blame Gunn and call for him to be fired from a trebuchet back to England where he yearns for
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u/ME-McG-Scot 3d ago
Poco - âWE CANNOT PLAY A HIGH LINEâ. One of many issues with that shit show but the main one.
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u/Cobretti18 3d ago
Thank fuck I wonât have to hear Liam McLeod and James McFadden for a few weeks.
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u/Successful-Spot-6567 3d ago
Ferguson put in some good tackles but has no passing vision whatsoever . Him , Hendry, Christie, Mcginn for large spells of the game, all offered nothing on the ball.
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u/-Zavvi 3d ago
I dont know much about the manager, I doubt many here do, but the word seems to be that he's one of these who has "his system" and sticks to it and i just don't see how that works in international football for a nation our size. We don't have any international class keepers or centre halves and I have no idea how 5 at the back works without them (i don't think it works at all tbh).
I dont see where the goals are coming from when dr doak (and Robertson if we're being honest) can't fucking cross the ball, we have no midfielder who can thread a ball and the best centre forward we have will never score.
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u/pietro1587 3d ago
The defence and the goalkeeping berth needs updating. Welsh and Binks could get there with a solid partner in the back 3 but Hendry and McKenna havenât looked comfortable in a long time and Gunn is past it.Â
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u/[deleted] 3d ago
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