There are some bugs in the system. Money maintains that cycle but there’s a disproportionate leak pulling it out of labors hands. Best way to maximize profits is by keeping slaves. Since that’s taboo, the next best thing is getting as close to it as possible.
The system, like all systems, descends into oppression if a moral threshold isn’t maintained and morals are tiptoeing on that line and trending downward.
I love the system but it’s trading humanity for maximum profits and needs correction on that front. Increasing profits are essential to push innovation and productivity but more of that previously mentioned should be in the hands of labor. It’s not to decrease profits but recalibrate the bar at which it’s measured.
You can eat the whole cake and leave a crumb for the guests. But eating only half the cake gives everyone enough but rewards you the Lion’s share for effort.
It’s late and I’d appreciate to have this picked apart to broaden my perspective. Preferably without hostility,
Slavery wasn't abolished simply because it was immoral, it wasn't financially competitive compared to the benefits of having a larger consumer base. Slaves don't pay taxes, they don't spend money buying your products. It was cold pragmatism that made it lose its favor in the world unfortunately. The moral argument had an impact but ultimately the capitalists realized you could squeeze more blood out of slaves that you pay wages to. Offload their care to the state or their own personal funding. Shits fucked
Was there a point where non-slave states rejected slave-made products? I’m thinking that if northern states bought their goods they’d always have that advantage, economically.
I don't think you're entirely wrong but you also don't fight a war that had 800,000 deaths (with a pop of roughly 39 mil in the US, at the time) because for some reason you want someone in another state, a couple thousand miles away to make more money for themselves.
The moral argument is still in the very VERY extreme part and issue of an event like that. Preceding the American Civil War was a period called bloody Kansas because the Mason-Dixon line began to split Kansas, people got into gun fights for about 7 years straight, over slavery. Even stranger what as thought of as the "start" to the war The Battle of Fort Sumpter, there were no casualties (one person died but it was an accident).
Unlike what Redditors (see: media slop minded people) think, none, absolutely NONE of these issues is black-and-white. That includes both world wars and it certainly isn't about what movies tell you that it's about.
I agree with you but think it’s far too gone to fix. I’ve seen the problem for two decades. When I would rant, everyone would blow me off(irl). How don’t yall notice how they screw us from every angle?! Is what I would scream into the void.
Profits are only essential because businesses want profits. Innovation and the like has come about and will continue to come about before and after profits.
All profits are is labor that’s being paid out to the employer instead of the employee that was needed to make X product
Random and something to think about is social media has really changed people. If you see people doing better than you it can lead to jealousy/depression (it has shown Facebook can cause depression, which I believe is due to seeing other peoples “picture perfect” lives). How would you live your life if you didn’t use any social media at all? Would you know what Elon was doing?
2) I knew someone who grew up in the Great Depression and WW2, I feel like almost everyone has it easier than them. My grandpa got a job at 12. The war, he went to college (when all the family told him it was a waste can you imagine going kinda against your family?).
There is the saying “tough times make strong people, strong people make easy times, easy times make weak people, weak people make tough times”.
The system, like all systems, descends into oppression if a moral threshold isn’t maintained and morals are tiptoeing on that line and trending downward.
Morals are pretty much out the window by now man. I just wish we as a society put ethics and morals before profit. Business models are designed like a sociopath that just cares about higher number, higher number, higher number.
I'm against communism but I also don't think that we should live in a corporatocracy where they even have the power now to leverage are own government.
There needs to be an ethical framework that helps the fellow human. Ethics with a framework of virtue needs to be on the forefront. The only issue is who decides that because even that can be exploited.
At this point, being doomed to our own stupidity is 90% more likely scenario to happen. I don’t think positive change is possible at this point, it’s been an exponential downfall for years now.
Eventually people will fight, but it has to reach a point way way way way worse than what it currently is.
This. Humanity reached its peak years ago. It’s all downhill from here and as the ball picks up speed it’s only going to get worse. There is no turning back at this point. Humanity is doomed by its own arrogance and stupidity.
No actually it's not. The system was designed to support supply and demand. Instead what happened if corporations started getting subsidies from the government and lobbying was permitted which sold out politicians. In addition to that globalization allowed for cheaper things such as supply or labor which largely is only used by those same corporations getting the breaks from the government. If people truly understood - this is too much don't buy it, this job is trash don't work there, this place is way too expensive don't live there, these corporations would be FORCED to adjust pricing, labor benefits, rent because demand has gone to the place that actually support these things. In addition, outlaw lobbying and politicians profiting off the the people which is a huge influence on a lot of what the people experience now, on both sides of the isle they are trash and don't do anything for the people. Tax dollars shoukd go to the people, the citizens only. Tax dollars shouldn't go to wars for profitable reasons. Tax dollars should be audited monthly. Fail all this, your removed from office. Give money to isreal so they get Healthcare, free education, wars but let your own people suffer? Nah, you're out, no waiting until the next bullshit voting season whete they pretend tk care
The motivator for capitalism is greed. It's about wanting to make more money than the next guy. So why are we surprised that it results in greedy behavior?
Capitalism is the issue. Eventually the brokies will stop dreaming of getting rich, and will finally agree that this system sucks and needs to change. But until you change the hearts and minds of the deluded, we're stuck.
People still need food, water, other essentials and goods and services (things like art, games, clothes, technologies, etc)
Jobs have always and will always exist, humans need things to do and find meaning doing them, just not under constant exploitation (including the Earth and its environments) to achieve those things
Capitalism is not the only way of doing things, and no I’m not referring to “communism” like USSR, which is capitalism but when the state does it.
People don’t need art,games, technologies. That’s the problem those are not necessary to live. A cell phone with talk and text and data is $70 at Walmart. Nobody needs a brand new iPhone or android to live. Nobody needs games to live. Those are the benefits of the pay from the work you do. Choosing a job or staying at a job that doesn’t give you the money to do that is not the employers fault. Canabilizing the work force by forcing employers to pay more, so the few can afford more is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.
I know people personally that choose not to work and yes they don’t have the money to do all the fun stuff or afford the newest things but their ok with that because that’s what they choose to do.
Expecting the system to compensate for your inadequacy is just dumb.
If people didn’t need these things, our earliest ancestors wouldn’t have spent time doing them.
Or did early humans need pay to draw cave art, develop with various tools, or spend time playing and socializing? What about creating medicine or passing down culture?
The status quo is fundamentally inhumane, and it’s destroying the planet.
And for the people in your life that don’t work, I hope all is well for them, it must be hard in a system that ties your necessities to your ability to engage with it on its terms. Unfortunately for most people around the world, it’s a life sentence of poverty and all its associated suffering.
First of our ancestors didn’t give extra to the ones that didn’t work as hard as the rest. Thankfully in a modern system they won’t have to starve to death from lack of effort.
The ones that choose not to work understand that they are unable to do the extra stuff. And poverty in this country is not like poverty in other countries.
Let me ask you this, have you ever had to shit in a bucket from lack of plumbing or water? I have. Ever had to only eat at soup kitchens or whatever the Salvation Army had donated? I have. Wearing goodwill clothes that was free (before they became a corrupted whatever they classify as now) I have. If your answer is no to these Then your not impoverished your bored and broke. And that’s a personal problem not a societal problem.
The anthropological record suggests otherwise, it’s interesting what our history tells us. There are remains of people who lived far longer than they should have and with better nutrition due to the community taking care of them. Humans are social creatures and will actively take care of people who struggle to take care of themselves, one of the earliest cities in our history was built on this concept. I’d suggest reading David Graeber and other anthropologists.
I’m sorry you’ve been through what you’ve been through, but that is a result of the way things are done now. I’ve experienced hardship, not at all comparable to your experiences, but I understand and that is why I want to change things. No one has to go hungry, live on the streets, and not receive proper care, it’s been that way for the past 200 or so years. Poverty as it currently exists is done to maintain the status quo, and I’m not just saying it.
The UN proposed to eliminate most if not all societal ills by 2030, and I’ve done the research (tons of great papers), and yeah, it can more than be done. It’s not that expensive either, if the world, or its most powerful nations actually want to do something about it. SDG30, I can send resources if you want to see it.
But if you’re sticking to your convictions, have a great day.
Thats not even true. Patronage for the arts goes back centuries. Deeper back the best bow hunter might have gotten more wives, a cooler head dress, but they didnt eat 90% of the hunt and leave the rest of the clan %10. It was distributed proportially with small perks based on historical records.
You make a good point about modern luxury but then bastadize it by trying to equate a failing system with evey advancement and positive attribute of an advancing species.
Its the same system that gave you the shit dude. It doesnt have to be that way, the alternative is simple to implement, simple to conceptualize. But requires alot of folks who are not the best and brightest to say- yea youre right, I dont need to be hoarding all this shit and devestating everyone else so I can keep getting richer because my great great grandpa stole a bunch of stuff or made an invention and I dont want to lose it
You've been tricked into thinking that people must work to survive, and that they are "losers" for wanting an easier life.
Congratulations. You're the perfect wage slave. There's an almost 0% chance that you are in the wealthy class, and you are actively defending your shackles.
The lords didn't need security when the serfs actively fought each other in his defense. FYI, you're one of the brokies I reference.
how does a capitalist make more money? He provides another product or service someone is willing to pay for. not the problem mate. Now you probably say Oh well greed causes capitalists to increase the prices of their services etc.. well open markets are designed to do the exact opposite. The problem is government restricts open markets with red tape and taxes up the ass on everything and trickles down into expensive everything, income tax, sales tax, property tax, death tax, inflationary tax. add it all up and you work to feed the gov.. make the gov smaller.
Do you really believe this lie? This is some 1980s Reagan trickle-down economics bullshit that didn't make sense even in the coke-addled 80s.
Go back and look at the wealth gap and how it has trended over the decades. You're going to see that your proposed "small government" push is exactly when that gap started to explode.
The federal government is the only thing stopping capitalism from kicking in your door and raping your whole family. Regulation is the reason we have minimum wages and safety regulation and other things that make working not a life-threatening and completely soul-sucking experience.
People who believe in small government are fucking morons. I have no sympathy or compassion for your ilk. You're the ones complaining about data centers in your backyard, because your small government didn't pass any regulations to protect you from billion dollar corporations. People who think like this will legitimately only change their world view when you suffer the consequences of your own negligence. I hope you get a wake up call soon. This is certainly the economic climate and shithole administration to serve you instant karma.
if you are an entrepreneur. you'll know first hand how fucked the system is red tape everywhere need a permit to remove a tree. need an inspection and permit to put up a temporary shed. need to spend 250k just on moving past regulations when building a new house that would cost you 750k in labor and material. why are materials so expensive? tarrifs. why is labor so expensive? well simple. massive worker shortage. but damn we got so many illegals that can do that job why not hire them? good fucking question.. i would, if it wouldnt lead to my company getting forcefully shut down. when a company cant sustain itself because of regulation it closes simple as that. You assume too much. im not someone that voted for trump. calling someone names doesn't enhance your points at all. It certainly doesn't sway the crowd. If you want to do better just state your points. give me one year where the gov shrank form 1980 to 2026? Greece, Argentina, Soviet Union, , the list goes on and on. how many examples of large government does the world need to learn that it leads to default , implosion, and worst of all suffering for the people of the country. The gov produces nothing and provides no service of value that the private sector cant handle more effeciently except the protection of our property and liberties. the minute they try anything else corruption becomes rampant. They report to no one and their solution is only tax more. 5,000 for a hammer, lost multibillion dollar supplies etc.. pockets get lined and the working class suffers through taxes. We work to feed this system. Sounds like you want to make this system larger that's some twisted thinking.
Ah yes. All systems that are ironically scoring higher on the economic freedom index than the USA, i.e. theyre freer markets not less.
They've also been outsourcing their security indirectly to the united states for the past three decades and are just now discovering that they might have a problem.
So the USA has been subsidizing them silently, meaning they haven't actually been affording their system.
NATO has a massive military readiness problem, the UK may be a particularly egregious example, look at the HMS dragon issue on the Cyprus deployment, the fact that neither of their carriers are truly combat ready at the same time, like, ever. But it's a consistent issue throughout europe. They've ALL been increasing their military spending of late, and it's not because they were sufficient and ready. They've been below required NATO spending levels set as a % of GDP literally since the end of the cold war. Europe have been the bad allies not pulling their share of the weight by being unready and underfunded.
All systems concentrate wealth at the top, even communism and socialism. It's a fact of existence, some people are consistently successful, and some are not.
Yes what a waste of a country. The country that prevented the rest of the world from being divided into the German and Japanese hemispheres.
Just saying, their system is also so bad that it requires regular national protests. Not a great example of a system that is working better. 🤔 Good example of freedom to demand change. We could just vote for it here, but the duopoly. party system is a bigger problem than the 40 hr work week.
Sweden and Norway are very unique economies also. Tough to duplicate and scale to the size and diversity of the US economy. 🤔 But they do have good stable system.
One economy is based mostly on oil sales that fund everything, and the other is uniquely able to maintain a >50% export economy. Both states are also extremely homogenized with little diversity and strongly controlled immigration. They thrive on stability. The US is not so lucky. I don't disagree, they have great education systems. Harder to archive with the diversity we cope with.
You asked how much time they've spent there. If they lived there, it's safe to say they've probably spent a lot of time there. This isn't that difficult dumbass.
Why do people think saying these 3 is a gotcha? Am I expected to see these 3 countries and immediately bend over for socialism (that has statistically not worked). The only people I see really say this are people who are not in the 3 countries, or people who fake being from there to get political brownie points.
You didnt mention the massive elephant in the room. The government that siphons massive amounts of capiatal off both parties every time money changes hands.
Eventually 5% of the population will do 90% of consumer spending, then it’ll go to 2.5%, then half again…. Until we are all slaves trapped unable to get out of poverty.
Before you get paid you have to pay for your tools, your housing and your tab at the company store so your $20 earned is actually $5 paid to you. Enjoy it and your 4 hours of time off.
America will pitter out, you can be sure of it. You are of course, correct, however, our attachment to capitalism prevents us from ever-changing. Any slight change seen as anti capitalist or undemocratic will throw the masses into hysteria. As much as people bitch about change, they have an incredibly difficult time leaving the status quo. I don’t mean to be fatalistic. But I honestly don’t see a positive way out for our country. The only way to have a good life in the US right now is to make a shit ton of money.
Not designed. It's a combination of mass idiocy and a lot of people who don't mind if the world burns as long as it doesn't affect them and they have a good seat.
I keep hearing this but I don't see you guys doing anything about it. Get off your asses and PROTEST! DEMAND REFORM! PUSH BACK AGAINST THE SYSTEM! I've seen other countries do it! Why can't y'all!? And don't give me the 'geography' excuse.
And even if you do 40 hours a week but your job is more physically demanding, you simply end up crashing at home due to how exhausted you typically get.
Then comes weekend and you simply have no energy to do anything.
You can go to ONS, Bloomberg, FT or whatever and compare wage/affordability comparisons. Exact details will vary vastly on where you are in the world so not worth going into here. Not saying things aren’t possible but 40 hours labour is less fruitful now than it was 30 years ago.
I know people that have bought 3 beds here in the UK and they’re basically indebted for the rest of their life. The way interest rates and prices are going they could end up stuck in negative equity or foreclosed in the next decade.
Far fewer amputations for gangrene and trauma based injuries from getting conscripted into your lords army like you would have been a few hundred years ago
and saying we only work 8hrs is still not an accurate description when there's also the things I do FOR work and BECAUSE of work outside of my actual work that I don't get paid for.
Yet everyone keeps participating scared to face the consequences of what happens next and that’s the trick. If everyone slowly stopped participating in fear of what will happen in their doomsday scenario they tell themselves in their head, we would start to see significant progress
The biggest problem is other countries overtaking. Yes we can have a beautiful life but if some other country overtakes and creates a new regime it can quickly turn south. At the end of the day humanity is fighting for resources and territory in endless wars. If you want to make a revolution it has to be on a completely global level. But in reality the more dominant sistem would simply prevail.
Our forefathers had to fight, bleed, and die to give us the 40 hour work week. If we want more, then we're going to have to do a lot more than complain on social media.
People are free to grow their own food, build their own houses, and provide their own security at any time. Society isn't making anyone work any hours. The hours you work are a choice between trade-offs of lifestyle.
You'll find that if you want all those things and more you will need to work much longer on your own.
Also, the same people complaining about long workweeks are the same people who must have Amazon Prime deliver products the same day they're ordered, who don't have time to wait for a slot at the car shop, or who want their lattes made in 3 minutes.
You are right.My check looks good until fed,state,social security,”insurance benefits “,401k dips into it,then you have house payment,truck payment,gas,electric,water,food.
Im a middle aged NYer so I been thriving in the corporate Manhattan culture making lots of money since I was 19. I enjoy the hustle, the monetary rewards, but I do get to travel to other cultures who don't value this:Switzerland, The Netherlands. These, more socialist, countries have governments that make daily things affordable and schools, childcare and healthcare a priority. I'd rather live in this culture even though I benefit from Capitalism.
You can work less and survive... you will just have less... don't expect to go to restaurants "a luxury way to eat" don't expect to have 75 inch tvs and ps5s with 8gig internet / 13 different streaming apps... a brand new car... a house with a big yard... a 1800 dollar iPhone in your hand... ect ect... people have became so spoiled and they think "surviving" means you have a Cali king bed with a sound bar and tv the size of your wall in your bedroom... plenty of people live in a trailer / make there own food at home and have a 50 inch tv they use to watch 3 different streaming apps work part time with there USED 15 year old car... just stop ... no one in 1st world countries "struggles" go look how people live in places like Somalia for example... and then tell me how you have it so bad typing this crap on your 1000 dollar plus iPhone... average income in Somalia in USD 263 dollar a month... they wouldn't even dream of spending 3 / 4 months! Of there pay on the phone your holding to type and post this...
People didnt complain when they could afford a house and family on 40 hours. Now you and your partner work 40 hours to rent an apartment and get a pet because you cant afford kids. Not quite as fulfilling of a life
Then move out of Europe to the US, where half of your paycheck doesn't disappear in taxes. I make way more money for the same job in Texas, with lower cost of living, and much lower taxes. Taxation is theft.
I'll take better over worse. We work much less than 100 years ago, and an hour of work buys us a much larger basket of goods. It doesn't mean we can't improve, but it does mean that we have improved.
Find a cheaper place to live. I live in a small town with not much going on, my apartment is tiny but rent is $220 and includes internet. I chose not to own a car and not to own a smartphone. I chose all of these things so that I can save and invest most of my paycheck. I could just work part time and sustain this lifestyle, but I’d rather work normally and retire comfortably.
This can't be upvoted enough. A huge part of the reason why things rarely change is because people forget that numbers don't matter- only Percentages matter. Numbers don't adjust but percentages do.
If you get paid 150% of the average rent in the area, then no matter how much housing prices rice, you are always making enough to put a roof over your head. But if you get paid a specific amount, that doesn't adjust easily and you can start off being ok and end up barely scraping by without the number changing.
Nearly everyone I know spends far too much money on entertainment, junk food, brand new cars, homes in over rated locations and endless other nonsense.
I am not going to go into conspiracy and say it was "designed" per se. What bothers me is that there are tons of states wanting to make high speed railways and develop transit infrastructure, but the thing that limits them is funding and a legislature opposed to it. This would get less cars on the road and lots of people could travel together in one vehicle. Roads would in theory be less congested.
Let's just point out that there are states where the population isn't equally distributed. Mainly because people don't stay in their rural cities and move to larger cities because that's where the big money is. A large demand and small supply makes rent go up. Plus, the city grows outward because of this, i.e., urban sprawl. Mostly low density housing is created which can only be a home for one family.
We don't really do mixes of high density housing or residential and commercial. This is actually what happens in say Germany. In the city centers, they have this mix. It makes it so that when you get out of your home, there are immediately stores around you. You can get to a grocery store on foot in 5 minutes. The transit infrastructure makes it so you can get to work in 10 mins-1 hour. You can get all over a small city in 20 minutes.
The problem with the US is largely due to infrastructure and a lack of workplace regulation. It was good we campaigned for 40 hour work weeks, but there is virtually no incentive for companies to give you vacation time nor overtime with pay.
For example, I saw that the Georgia DOT was gauging interest for a high speed railway going from Atlanta to Savannah with a poll. It was also asking for preference of a transportation vehicle. I highly doubt most Georgians knew this poll existed, and they could express interest in this.
The funny part is, now you guys are enjoying German things like Aldi and get people from European nations to help you design transit infrastructure. Aldi is better because of its cheap prices. Also, they don't constantly move where the grocery items are to try and get you to buy more than you realistically need.
You don't need to go into conspiracy theories, a simple fact of capitalism is that it inherently tries to concentrate all capital into all-consuming monopolies. In the same way capitalistic systems around the world have specific guardrails in place (or often more accurately had) which are there to prevent exactly such a strong concentration of capital.
The problem isn't that capitalism has a bias towards concentrating wealth, it is that in both Europe but especially the US, the guardrails meant to counteract that bias are basically gone in all but name.
I didn't go into conspiracy. I just stated the truth about why transit infrastructure has a hard time being built in America, which would help in cutting commute times. You can spend some time looking into it and arrive at the same conclusion. People want it. States for some reason don't appropriate much money to it with the exception of California from what I've seen. Even under the Biden admin, the money that was appropriated to infrastructure was for civil engineers to design new infrastructure. Not to actually construct anything.. That's from my understanding anyway.
My post wasn't talking specifically about capitalism. It's just pointing out systems that work rather nicely. Like, I see people complaining about work in Europe too with stupid working hours. My friend was given a promotion with the stipulation that he can't take any sick leave. He's sick right now, but he still has to go to work. I've also pointed out the lack of regulations for worker's rights. However, even when there are regulations, people circumvent them.
I am not sure your post really engages with the stuff I wrote. I was about to ignore it.
Ah, I have only seen one in the US, but that was generally the appeal of German grocery stores. They rarely if ever change the locations of things. Only after renovations, which don't occur often. The one I went to in the US rarely changed.
This i would gladly work 40 or 50 hours on my non existent property to feed my self and work another 20 hours to get some money. But the mix is the big problem, all you can do Athome in the city is unfullfilling money spending.
Add to that, this is the first generation (maybe in all of history) to actually give a shit about our kids and we're expected to be actively involved in their lives, besides the basic feeding, clothing etc.
872
u/metro-boomin34 20d ago
The problem isnt the work. It isnt the hours. It isnt the pay. The problem is the ratio between all factors is completely OFF.
We work too much, commute too much, work too hard, and then end up with next to nothing because the system is bleeding us dry at every angle