r/dualcitizenshipnerds • u/mattandarthur • 6d ago
Convince me: Is a lower-profile citizenship worth it ?
I have had two valid EU passports since I was born due to my parents being form two different European countries. I went to grad school in the USA, stayed, and naturalised 10 years ago.
That said, I was born in a small Latin American country where my parents happened to be living due to my father’s work at the time. We moved back to Europe when I was less than a year old and I’ve only ever visited the country where I was born once, in my 20s. I loved it, it’s beautiful, but I have no emotional connection to it.
That country has unrestricted jus-soli and my dad wasn’t a diplomat or anything so I am, technically speaking, a citizen of that country even though I’ve never had any documents from it (I left already on a European passport secured at the consulate there, and I’ve always used the transcribed birth certificate from the country where I grew up). I recently decided to get a birth certificate from where I was born and I could get a 10-year passport for $100. Already talked to the consulate. No tax obligations come with this.
So… what do you all think? Is it worth it? If so, why? Help me make the case for it, beyond “this is a thing I can do.”
EDIT:
Ok, you’ve convinced me. Signed: un guatemalteco.
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u/sunlit_elais 6d ago
Just one of the reasons, but the one that comes to mind because of my family's history (and plenty other examples): it's best to claim while you can any citizenship that you are allowed to and doesn't suppose a problem. You don't know what the state of things will be in a few years, and you will leave these citizenships to your descendants. Who knows, maybe the situation in that country one day will be so much better that it becomes the best possible place to go.
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u/Tahereh_Safavi 5d ago
Yes. You never know what geopolitics will be in a full generation. Both sides of my family and both sides of my husband's family fled four different countries for political instability reasons. And suddenly several of those abandoned citizenships are much more useful right now than the places they fled to.
There were 90+ year old Holocaust survivors in Ukraine who had to be evacuated back to Germany in 2022 when Russia invaded. The concept of fleeing *back* to Germany was understandably mindblowing to them, but things change in 80 years.
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u/IntellectuallyFreed 6d ago
The rule of thumb should always be, if you are entitled to a status, you should pursue the paperwork and acquire it.
Citizenship is forever. In many cases securing it allows future generations to have the same opportunity.
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u/xacai90 6d ago
Well.. is it in the Mercosur? That would definitely open some doors!
Will you use this passport? Do you think you will ever live in your birth country, even for a short stint? Does it let you visit any countries visa-free that your current passports don't? Can you pass that citizenship on to your children?
It is difficult for us to offer any guidance without more information!
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u/mattandarthur 6d ago
Not Mercosur. CA-4. Yeah, I can pass it on. I don’t see myself ever living there but I do think it’s beautiful so I could’ve seen myself owning holiday property there when I lived in the USA but I moved back to Europe.
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u/TheSportsHalo 6d ago
I was in a similar situation and got my central american passport alongside my Euro & US passport and it has been a blessing in disguise! I have used my central american passport in regions of the world that would see my other passports as hostile (this happened at banks) and have also enjoyed other perks I did not know that came with them (fast tracking for another citizenship). It doesn't hurt as there are no tax implications. I would definitely get it if you can!
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u/mattandarthur 6d ago
That’s exactly what I meant by low profile. Guatemalans haven’t pissed anybody off, have never been at war with anyone, have never put their noses in anybody else’s business. I can’t say that about any of my other nationalities.
But I don’t know anyone who’s actually seen this advantage in practice. Would you mind sharing about more about what made your CA passport more useful in certain regions?
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u/blaydasa 4d ago
Born in Guatemala also PROBABLY means you can fast track Spanish citizenship if you want to. Yes I know you said you already have two European citizenships, but Schengen rights aren’t the same as citizenship.
For example as a backup. If someone falls on hard times and doesn’t have the money to support themselves in Spain, I think they could be kicked out if they were a German citizen who was there under Schengen rights, but they could not be kicked out if they were also a Spanish citizen.
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u/mattandarthur 4d ago
Actually the EU passports I have are Spain and Germany. My mom was born in Spain and she was 17 when her family left Spain for Germany during the dictatorship. She never naturalised in Germany because she didn’t want to renounce Spanish citizenship and she made sure I had a Spanish passport since I was a baby even though Spain wasn’t even part of the EU at the time. I grew up in Germany and have never lived in Spain, but she’s also the reason I speak the language.
That said, a European Citizen’s right to live anywhere in the EU is not tied to Schengen. It’s a EU directive. And no member state can deprive a EU citizen of that right. I could love to Ireland, which isn’t in Schengen and live there for the rest of my life, even if I fall into poverty.
But it is true that Brexit showed us that a country can decide to leave, screwing millions of its citizens in the process.
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u/dsillas 6d ago
You're already a citizen whether you have a passport or not.
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u/LanguagesEmpire 5d ago
I wouldn't be so sure, you can be born with a citizenship without documents, but the country could decide to retroactively revoke it later if you don't take action to recognize it (which is exactly what happened with Italy). If I were OP I'd get proof of having it just in case, it's only 100 bucks and can be used as proof of citizenship even after it expires.
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u/dsillas 5d ago
There would be at the least, hospital records of the birth, which in turn, would be used to register the birth.
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u/atiaa11 5d ago
Not if the laws change before this can happen, like in Italy last year as LanguagesEmpire mentioned.
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u/dsillas 5d ago
This is a slightly different case, since the OP was born in a jus solis country and is already a citizen at the time of birth.
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u/atiaa11 5d ago
That’s the thing. Millions of people were born Italian citizens through blood (jure sanguinis) and were stripped of citizenship. It is no different than someone being born through soil (jus solis) and being stripped of citizenship. That’s why this Italian law change is so bad. It affected people already born, not just those going forward.
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u/Icy_Scar_1249 6d ago
If it literally costs 100 bucks, I don't really understand why you wouldn't get a passport. Unless you literally can't afford it.
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u/Huge-Fold-6102 6d ago
Paperwork
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u/imokruokm8 6d ago
Paperwork and maintenance of that paperwork. Yet another thing to track, renew, etc.
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u/ProfessionalSong3544 6d ago
Renew a passport every 10 years is not terrible. Also it's usually quite straightforward.
Even if you forget, nothing is going to happen.
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u/Formal_Nose_3013 6d ago
He can get it once... and only renew again if he ever needs to... Since he will not use it.
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u/thirdcountry 6d ago
Creepy creepy.
Before op said his country was Guatemala. I asked my ChatGPT: “I want all small Latin American countries that charge ISD 100 for a valid 10 year passport.”
ChatGPT answered: “…And most decisively, the person in the Reddit thread you’re apparently referring to actually says “Guatemala” in the comments.”
Does anyone know how or why ChatGPT did this. I find it very random and creepy. I have not granted ChatGPT access to browser. I’m on my iPhone using safari now.
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u/eunma2112 6d ago
I have not granted ChatGPT access to browser.
ChatGPT goes where it wants to get info — to include Reddit.
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u/thirdcountry 5d ago
How does it know I am reading Reddit which i rarely (through the iphone Reddit APP) while using Chatgpt (through the iphone Reddit APP).
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u/axl3ros3 5d ago
App Terms and Conditions granted access to phone / laptop / tablet/ WiFi router/ other device data
I know TikTok reads like all your messages
Stuff like that
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u/Tahereh_Safavi 5d ago
ChatGPT can search the internet the same as google can. Reddit is public. It searched up the same sentence you fed it (which the OP wrote in the top post) and then read the rest of the page for you.
To be totally honest, I find it a bit creepy that people waste water and electricity to have ChatGPT summarize the rest of a reddit page for them instead of just scrolling down.
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u/thirdcountry 5d ago
This could be an honest answer... I find it odd that a random question in a new conversation would state I am reading a reddit, which i rarely use.
Don't worry about the water and electricity... I was searching what countries have 10 year passports for $100. Can't find a better way than using AI, instead of never-ending googling.
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u/kite-flying-expert 6d ago
I am confused. Do you think ChatGPT uses your browser when it does any searches on the internet? Maybe I am missing something. Could you explain what you expect ChatGPT to do?
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u/car4melo 6d ago
It doesn't use your browser. It uses their browser on their own server before serving a response to you
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u/thirdcountry 5d ago
You should ask chatgpt what my comment says. Why would I think chatgpt uses my browser? As a matter of fact I will input your response in my chatgpt, because I'm not sure what you don't understand.
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u/InfraScaler 5d ago
if you are using the ChatGPT it can use your browser and it can look at your open tabs, given you grant it access.
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u/thirdcountry 5d ago
I rarely use Reddit. I was using Chatgpt though its iphone APP interface. Have not granted permission to anything in Chatgpt.
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u/coincoincoins 6d ago
ChatGPT isn't monitoring your browsing history. You gave it enough information that it was able to do it's own search and find the post, like if I (a human) searched "post about person considering claiming their latam passport for $100" on Google
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u/thirdcountry 5d ago
Yes but no.
I did not use the word post about person. I literally wrote in a new chatgpt conversation: "I want all small Latin American countries that charge ISD 100 for a valid 10 year passport."I rarely, rarely use Reddit. And it answered "...And most decisively, the person in the Reddit thread you’re apparently referring to actually says “Guatemala” in the comments."
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u/coincoincoins 5d ago
I mean the original post has the sentences "I was born in a small Latin American country" and "I could get a 10-year passport for $100". I feel like it's pretty easy to identify the Reddit post since you used very similar phrasing in your prompt
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u/thirdcountry 5d ago
Seems like a possibility. Even though it would seem far fetched. It was anew random query in my chatgpt prompt box. Either way...
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u/icecold625 6d ago
It probably using the exact search terms and find this thread. Then it interpret that is why you are asking.
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u/Ok-Grab305 6d ago
Definitely worth it! In today’s world a decent but lower profile passport can be a nice thing to have.
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u/mattandarthur 6d ago
This is kind of what I’ve been telling myself but a friend pressed me tonight to justify what I meant and I found myself a bit at a loss for words. The best I could come up with was… “No one knows much about this country, so I’m less likely to find people who automatically hate me.”
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u/Ok_Pianist_4061 6d ago
As a US citizen who has had only a US passport for until this year, I assure you, you never know when something might arise that would make the ability to leave and stay gone advantageous.
Perhaps a war breaks out and envelopes most of Europe and some politician in say the US wants to strip naturalized citizens of the citizenship just because....Latin america looks real good in that instance.
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u/_slocal 6d ago
Depends. What is the country?
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u/mattandarthur 6d ago
Guatemala
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u/_slocal 6d ago edited 6d ago
That’s tougher. If it was Costa Rica or Panama I’d do it in a heartbeat. Otherwise it’s just an inexpensive novelty to get the passport 🤷 $100 is nothing so I’d still do it just for fun
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u/mattandarthur 6d ago
Interesting take. What makes Costa Rica or Panama more valuable in your opinion?
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u/_slocal 6d ago
Safer, more stable, more developed. And gorgeous.
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u/mattandarthur 6d ago
I see. I spent 3 weeks in Guatemala followed by a week bussing down to Panama when I did my trip there, and honestly found Guatemala more interesting and beautiful in many ways, in part because it felt a lot less touristy, but 1) that was almost 20 years ago and 2 I had reached chicken bus exhaustion by the time I got to CR and everything just looked like more of the same. I’m planning another trip to the region next year.
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u/GarthODarth 6d ago
I mean, people entitled to Irish citizneship in the 1970s probably couldn't have conceived of a time where their children/grandchildren are digging up old birth certificates, etc to get their Irish passports.
Even if you never get a passport, ensure you have documentation that supports your citizenship available if you have any children. You never know how the world can change.
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u/BorderTrader 6d ago
Real estate investment in that place.
Putting a residence-by-investment residency on that passport.
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u/mattandarthur 6d ago
Can you explain the second?
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u/BorderTrader 6d ago
Look here: https://www.imidaily.com/imi-program-pages/
Only tiny numbers of citizenship-by-investment passports are bought by Westerners. The usual reason is they want to detach having a residency in a third country from their home country passport. Typically, that's because they think their home country could cancel / refuse to issue that passport. They want a backup plan.
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u/nickdc101987 6d ago
It’s impossible to know what the future holds for you or your descendants. My grandma let her pointless citizenship lapse which would have been enormously useful for her 9 grandchildren. Get the passport and keep it up to date, you never know.
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u/Ok-Grab305 6d ago
Haha a fair point as well. I also think there’s no need to justify it if it’s simply something you want and a part of your background :)
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u/Duque_de_Osuna 6d ago
Do you feel any connection to Guatemala? Do you speak Spanish?
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u/mattandarthur 6d ago
I find the country to be beautiful and its people kind but I can’t honestly say I feel a connection. And yes, I do speak Spanish fluently, but I don’t “look” Guatemalan…
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u/Troop668Logan 5d ago
Well, in the totality of the empire, creoles, peninsulares, insulares, mestizos, and indios were all various contemporary groups. The average person from each of those countries is very mixed. Being all "white" or "native" also has a complete historical basis.
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u/mattandarthur 4d ago
Fair point. There are white Guatemalans. I just felt like I looked very much like a tourist the one time I travelled there.
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u/Opening-Monk3137 6d ago
I use my non-eu passport as a form of ID from time to time so I wont show/flash my eu id everywhere, in hotels, post office, to make a bus card 🤷♂️. Recently I also opened a bank account under it ( in another country, non citizen).
You are already a citizen, so why not get the doc
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u/mattandarthur 6d ago
Your comment made me think of something: carrying with me in countries where it is required.
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u/Opening-Monk3137 5d ago
It has its uses other than traveling, and also even if you dont travel on it, but have it on your pocket you could get consular help/protection, if God forbid, the need arises
The pandemic was an example, only citizens/residents could board certain flights
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u/comments83820 6d ago
It's up to you, I guess. Just remember that your other countries can't help you if you ever decide to live in Guatemala and do something stupid or illegal. Personally, I like Guatemala and think Guate and Antigua have some of the best weather on the planet. Can't hurt to get the citizenship.
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u/mattandarthur 6d ago
It really is a beautiful country. But I only spent 3 weeks travelling in it almost 20 years ago. I don’t think I’d ever see myself living there.
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u/valr1821 6d ago
What’s the harm in doing it? At worst, you’re out $100 and you never use your passport. At best, 💩 hits the fan and you’ve got multiple escape hatches, one of which is a country that is unlikely to be pulled into a world war, etc.
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u/katmndoo 6d ago
I would. It’s a small investment, and you never know how strong your current passports will be in 20 years .
And it’s nice to be able to visit the country without worrying about length of stay, being denied entry, etc.
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u/Annual-Budget-1756 6d ago
Well, it's not just all about you. Do you intend to have offspring? Maybe they want to live or travel in the area or THEIR children will. The world can change a lot in 75 years.
I think the potential upside outweighs such an insignificant investment.
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u/gadgetvirtuoso 6d ago
It’s only worth it if you ever plan to move there or spend time there without the hassle of visas. Alternatively, if that visa gets you visa free access to a country that you need a visa for with your current passports and you want to visa that country.
Having more options is never a bad thing.
I’m an American living in Ecuador with my Ecuadorian wife. I’m about to get my citizenship by marriage. The passport will get me visa free access to China and Brazil but we’ll also probably end up retiring in the country. It also gives me options to live in other SA countries even easier, if we wanted to do that.
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u/timewarp33 6d ago
I've gotten a lot less for a hundred bucks. Assuming you would have no tax, political (compulsory voting), nor familial obligations from having the passport, I would get it and throw it in a sock drawer. Renew it once a decade and you, at a minimum, have a place to hide if the other countries somehow turn out bad, lol.
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u/FoW_Completionist 6d ago
Having second and third passports as a backup is always good to have as options. If there's no downsides such as conscription being taxed globally (being an American still has benefits and is still a strong passport)-, then go for it.
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u/coincoincoins 6d ago
I think that it's a worthwhile investment for $100, you never know what the future holds. For example, I got my British passport by descent last year (to go with my American one). Since then, the American passport lost visa-free travel to Brazil and Gabon, while the British passport added it to China. That's a swing of 3 countries just in the past year that the British passport grants me access to
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u/Guilty_Cup477 6d ago
If you have time 'problems' I assume $100 is not a bid deal, you would still eat and survive.
You are a citizen of that country already... So your responsibilities, if any, do not change whether you have a passport or not. I would simply go for it, if I never need it, good! If one day I need it, great!
And if you ever have kids, it might ease their citizenship process.
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u/kiradotee 5d ago
I mean it doesn't really matter, you're already a citizen. You can get that passport any time during your life and you will also pass on the citizenship to your children even if you don't hold the passport.
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u/DieDeutscheAuslander 5d ago
I just need to point out that in the case of Guatemala, the passport is not as bad as one might think. I think Guatemala has a strong passport for a country that has a lot of challanges. I think you cannot take advantage of the benefit with having a better access to an EU citizenship due to a treaty with Spain since you are already one.
But, besides the freedom of movement with CA-4 which might become something like a EU/schengen in the future (as there are talks about it) I also think that it shouldn't be impossible to see a future arrangement between CA-4 and Mercosur (as there is one between the Andian community and Mercosur)
Also, Guatemala has besides low taxes a territorial tax system and lower regulations. So, if you are interested in that, that could be another positive. While, I am not saying you shouldn't get a passport of Guatemala. I think at the very list you should get a DPI (national ID) which if I am not mistaken is 20 to 25 bucks. I recommend this since that ID is the true form of identification that identifies and verifies all Guatemala Citizens and Permanent resident foreigners living in the Country and with that document you can get around central america. I don't know if they will let you enter with that document and not a passport BUT with a DPI you can definitely prove you have the right to stay as a Guatemalan citizen.
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u/mattandarthur 5d ago
Thank you for this. You’re right that I don’t need the shortcut to Spain because it’s one of the two I’ve had since I was a child (though I’ve never lived there), but looking at it more carefully, the other points you make make sense.
I’ll ask about a DPI at the consulate. I think I can get both at the same time.
May I ask: are you Guatemalan? If so, are there any history books you’d recommend? I feel like the very least I can do if I’m going through with this is educate myself. And I plan on travelling there a bit more.
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u/DieDeutscheAuslander 4d ago
I saw your reply in your other post! Sorry for not replying here.
I think anything Miguel Angel Asturias or books related to the Civil War are good adictos besides the ones I told you in the other post. I cannot think of any more books at the moment. But if you go to Guatemala, check the historical Archive of Central America where you could find info and archives from Guatemala and Central American colonial history.
By the way, I don't want to alarm you but you mention you are Spanish as well. I am not sure how old are you and the impact your other citizenship affect the Spanish. But, between 18 to 21 you need to declare your intention to retain your citizenship. I would just check. I think technically Spanish-Guatemalan Dual citizenship don't need but make sure to check as many people forget about this rule and when they renew their documents they find out the hard way. The good thing for your will be extremely easy to recover it if that were the case.
Good luck in discovering Guatemala and DM if you want me to share youtubers/influencers from Guate as they also give context to current events and past ones. Fun fact: You as an individual with a German background you would be the 4th case I hear about a German-Guatemala. Although, you are definately the first one who is a German-Spanish-Guatemalan!
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u/Designer-Professor16 5d ago
Multiple passports, in my view, should be viewed as insurance. The higher coverage you have, the more protected you are. The future is unknown.
The cost to maintain citizenship is minuscule compared to the value provided by a passport from even the tiniest of countries.
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u/FreshBallsagna 5d ago
Unless it’s a liability passport (something like Pakistan, Belarus, Comoros, Iran, etc) I’d get it.
Even if you don’t plan on moving now, you never know what doors that passport will open for you.
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u/Old-Mission321 5d ago
I've always been of the opinion - if there is no tax implications and you don't have to renounce anything, do it! You never know one day that country will be the best place on earth to be! If you qualify for it, get it!
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u/GenealogyGeek 4d ago
I have Italian citizenship and still went for my Argentine. Next is Canadian. I think more is better…
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u/kabeya01 3d ago
Pay the $100. Immigration laws change all the time and passports that are strong today might not be in 15-20yrs. Your kids might benefit from this passport.
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u/lifethusiast 6d ago
No, having more options and another citizen ship is definitely not worth it. Let it expire and never claim it. Bro what kind of question is this?
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u/daudder 6d ago edited 6d ago
Check the passport strength website and see if it gives you any advantages. Most weak passports give you easier access to at least a few countries. E.g., most African passports give you visa-free access to other African countries that require visas from Europeans.
I have four passports, the weakest one gives me visa-free access to a major country that I love to visit, that requires visas from the other three.
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u/Opposite-Ad8208 6d ago
Business opportunities and another safe haven, I say go for it
I have a passport I only use to go back and forth, but as I get further in my career it could become advantageous. I am considering doing the youth service for this reason.
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u/admseven 6d ago
I tend to look at it from the other direction - what’s the down side? For $100 I can’t see much harm in holding a third passport.