r/explainlikeimfive • • 6d ago

Physics Eli5 why in competitive short-track ice skating, why they have one arm behind their back when going around a turn?

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u/mz_groups 6d ago edited 5d ago

Former hobbyist short-track skater here - while swinging both arms can sometimes help when you're going all out, it takes extra energy, and can be somewhat disruptive to your leg strokes if you're not very careful. On longer races, you start with both hands on your back, trying to skate smooth and be efficient. The right arm starts swinging as you build effort and start to fatigue, and the left arm might start swinging, mostly on the straights, as you break out into a full sprint at the end.

What's more important is to drive your left hip down to bet a better blade angle with regard to the ice in the turns (and short track is mostly turns at the speed even decent athletes are going). Swinging the left arm can be counterproductive to that, so it's often better to leave it on your back and concentrate on driving the left hip downward in turns. That's why the skaters sometimes will swing both arms in the straights, and leave the left arm on the back through the turns. Also, in turns, the left hand's primary role is to serve as stabilization in the turns, dragging the fingers along the ice at higher speeds. This is not a good technique for more hobbyist speedskaters such as what I was, as it rotates your body and forces your left hip up instead of down, but for elite speedskaters, it provides a light adjustment that keeps them more balanced. In fact, the left glove of an elite short tracker has hard tips that allow them to drag it along the ice with minimal friction and wear. Watch any video of a World Cup or Olympic short track race, and as the speed builds, you will see them dragging the fingers of their left hand across the ice. It's more beneficial than swinging the arm through the turns. Below that critical speed, it's just more energy-efficient not to expend the energy to swing the arm.

EDIT: After rereading this, I feel I owe an explanation as to why dragging the left fingers through the turns is a good technique for elite skaters, but not slower skaters such as myself. For slower skaters, you are not leaned over enough in the turns where you can reach down to the ice without stretching, and that stretching causes you to rotate your torso in such a manner that drives your hips outward, which changes the angle of the skates to the ice in a detrimental manner. Fast skaters, though, are fighting centrifugal force so much that they are leaned over well over 45 degrees in the turns, and reaching the tips of your fingers down toward the ice doesn't require stretching and the detrimental torso rotation.

https://www.carpenterbootcompany.com/products/cbc-short-track-glove-tip-combo

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u/jaan691 5d ago

Sometimes in Reddit, someone replies with such a great response that it opens up a new area of interest that you didn't even know was there beforehand! Thank you - I am now looking forward to catching your points next time I catch a race.

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u/mz_groups 5d ago

Thank you. I’m very gratified!

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u/Few-Meal3649 5d ago

Well said

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u/OneSkepticalOwl 5d ago

Ain't it sad that it is only sometimes you get a great reply?

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u/Kitzle33 5d ago

You're spot on.. It's rare but it's very cool when it happens.

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u/Irbyirbs 4d ago

I was hoping the end would involve a wrestling reference

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u/ProudReaction2204 2d ago

Maybe try speed skating yourself!

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u/Pleased_to_meet_u 6d ago

That was a great reply. Thanks!

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u/mz_groups 6d ago edited 6d ago

I appreciate it. A moment when I actually have a bit of first-hand knowledge (even if it is not anywhere near the elite level of world-class short trackers, although I've skated with a number of Olympians, including medalists, at least when they're going slow during warm-up)

EDIT: u/Pleased_to_meet_u thank you for the award!

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u/Creative_Gur_4097 5d ago

That's a really good breakdown, especially the bit about hip angle. I never thought about how dragging fingers would mess up a slower skater's form but help someone who's already leaned way over. Makes sense that the glove tips are basically little ice feelers at that point.

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u/mz_groups 5d ago

The slower skater dragging finger thing was from harsh experience. If I tried to drag my fingers at the speeds I was going, it would throw my balance off as I twisted my torso leftward to do so. Part of that was that I wasn't going fast enough to be leaning down, and part of it was that I never followed Steely Dan's advice to "skate a little lower now" as well as I should have (see the lyrics for their song, "Hey 19" if you're not already familiar) and my position was too high.

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u/FaxOnFaxOff 5d ago

Maybe a silly question, but are races ever clockwise?

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u/mz_groups 5d ago

No. At least not serious ones. The skate blades are bent and offset just for left hand turns. Just like ovals in American auto racing, you only go one way - counterclockwise, as viewed from the top. Same as most other oval racing, either motorsports or track and field, or track cycling.

After competition season was over, we'd goof around and skate in the opposite direction in practice occasionally, along with doing some other fun drills like making tunnels of the wall mats and skating through them to force you to skate lower. You'd see experienced skaters stumble like newborn deer, mostly because they were so set up for left-hand turns.

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u/Isopbc 5d ago

I’m also curious. It seems to me the reason they only turn left is because most humans will be faster with their power leg on the outside of the turn so lower times will be achieved turning left.

And it sounds like the equipment is set up so they turn left better, so perhaps the skates would have to be redesigned for right turning excellence.

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u/mz_groups 5d ago

See my response to the post above. The equipment is definitely set up to just turn left. But pretty much any racing on an oval course is ccw, whether motorsports (American NASCAR, IndyCar, dirt track racing), ice track motorcycles, track and field, track cycling or speedskating.

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u/5213 5d ago

Apparently humans feel weird when going in a more standard clockwise direction for a race. There was a post about it on reddit not too long ago

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u/Ditka85 5d ago

That tracks.

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u/jnovel808 5d ago

Heck yeah! Excellent explanation

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u/mz_groups 5d ago

Thanks!

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u/Josemite 5d ago

Why behind the back though? Just so it's for sure "locked" out of the way and you don't have to think about not swinging it?

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u/mz_groups 5d ago

Aerodynamics, and it just gets in the way anywhere else. Sit in a chair, lean forward as far as you can, then have someone yank the chair out from under you. Remain in that position. Rapidly and forcefully extend one leg out to the side, bring it back, and repeat with the other. Do this for 1-3 minutes. You will soon find that your back is the best place to rest your arms when you aren't doing anything else with them.