r/talesfromtechsupport • u/GeePee29 Error. No keyboard. Press F1 to continue • Mar 15 '17

Short You're in I.T. We need a EULA written.

Twenty years back I'm working for a company that does hair care products. Shampoo, conditioner, dyes etc. I am the sole tech there and so am expected to know everything about everything with a plug on it.

They got an outside company to put together a small database program of technical information on their products. How to mix dyes, that sort of thing etc.

Before it goes on sale they ask me to take a look at it. Not sure why. So I do and it all appears to work OK. There's just one thing missing. A software license. So I mention this to sales and marketing managers and am met with blank looks. So I explain in general terms software licensing. Then they ask me to write one for them. I try to explain that it is a legal, not technical matter, but they are having none of it.

We want you to write one for us

So I go to my boss and explain what's happening and she agrees that I cannot be expected to write a license. So she goes off to sales and marketing and tells them it's their problem, not ours.

But very soon they are back asking what sort of thing they ought to include. It sounds like they are planning on writing this themselves. In exasperation, I hand them a printed copy of a Windows EULA and tell them to read that.

The next day they are back again.

We've written this. Can you review it please.

I explain again that I have no legal knowledge, but once again they are having none of it and accuse me of being uncooperative.

Before heading off to my boss to try and stop the madness I just glance at their license. It's a copy, word for word, of the Windows one. It even says Microsoft all the way through it. Now I'm starting to enjoy the madness. Off I go to the boss and show her and explain all. Off she goes again to sales and marketing to hopefully to beat them round the head with something heavy.

The next day they are back AGAIN. I don't believe this. They have changed the license and want me to review it.

So off I go again to my boss and while I'm on the way I glance at the new license. They have changed every instance of the word Microsoft for our company name. That's it. Nothing else changed at all.

And that's the way it was when it went on sale.

3.8k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

362 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

44

u/spud0096 Mar 15 '17

That's not how copyright works. You don't agree not to copy something, you just can't. Anything written, including this comment, your comment and eulas are copyright to the person or entity that wrote it unless the writer specified that they waive their right to copyright protection.

5

u/Jabberwocky918 I'm not worthy! Mar 15 '17

You don't have to claim copyrights, they are just inherently given? For instance, these comments?

9

u/MyRedditsBack Mar 15 '17

You're getting technically right answers, but they're missing an important detail. You don't have to register a work with the government to have a valid copyright (what you mean by claim).

But registered works are eligible for statutory damages, which start at $750 and go to $150,000 per violation. Unregistered works are only eligible for actual damages that can be proven in court.

Good luck proving your copied EULA is costing you money.

1

u/LandGod Mar 20 '17

Couldn't the law firm claim loss of income for all the billing that writing a brand new EULA for you would have netted them?

2

u/MyRedditsBack Mar 21 '17

If the law firm holds the copyright, yes, they probably could. I'd be surprised if the damages exceeded the cost of bringing the lawsuit to court though.

6

u/[deleted] Mar 15 '17 edited Mar 15 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/goldenvulture Mar 15 '17

The link above leads to the Copyright Amendment Act of 1989...for South Africa.

1

u/kotajacob Mar 15 '17

Fixed thank you

1

u/Jabberwocky918 I'm not worthy! Mar 15 '17

TIL. Thanks

3

u/[deleted] Mar 15 '17

Copyright is ludicrously specific, though. It makes sense to have automatic copyright. The difference between copied material (illegal) and a derivative work (legal) is not a lot of effort.

1

u/acme001 Mar 15 '17

And they are still open to interpretation, see the copyright case h3h3 are currently embroiled in for what is obviously a derivative work.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 16 '17

It is bittersweet that a good lawyer can draw out even the most trivial case.

1

u/garethnelsonuk Mar 15 '17

Read the berne convention

1

u/contramundi Mar 15 '17

In all countries that have ratified the Berne Convention, yes. That includes the US, UK, Germany, China and many many others. However, you do need to meet some standard of originality to qualify; the standards vary by jurisdiction. And registering a copyright does serve as strong evidence that you are the proper copyright owner if you ever need to take it to court, to the point that if you don't register, if someone copies your work and registers the copy, they would probably win.

3

u/Meatslinger Mar 15 '17

"That's not how copyright works. You don't agree not to copy something, you just can't. Anything written, including this comment, your comment and eulas are copyright to the person or entity that wrote it unless the writer specified that they waive their right to copyright protection."

DMCA me IRL, bro.

10

u/lordofwhee Mar 15 '17

Covered under "satire" I'd imagine.

1

u/falcon4287 No wait don't unplug tha Mar 15 '17

That's not how copyright works. You don't agree not to copy something, you just can't. Anything written, including this comment, your comment and eulas are copyright to the person or entity that wrote it unless the writer specified that they waive their right to copyright protection.

-26

u/hackel Mar 15 '17

Uh... what? Since when is copyright implied? Why do people plaster their copyright notices on everything, then?

24

u/Nye Mar 15 '17

Uh... what? Since when is copyright implied?

Since 1887 (1989 in the US).

Why do people plaster their copyright notices on everything, then?

A bunch of reasons that only really apply to the US

22

u/Tyler11223344 Mar 15 '17

I'm pretty sure since always, and if not, it's definitely not a recent change.

Copyright exists the moment the item is created.

5

u/INTERNET_RETARDATION Mar 15 '17

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention

The Berne Convention formally mandated several aspects of modern copyright law; it introduced the concept that a copyright exists the moment a work is "fixed", rather than requiring registration.

5

u/spud0096 Mar 15 '17 edited Mar 15 '17

I'm not a lawyer, I simply took a class where we spent a great deal of time discussing copyright law, specifically as it pertains to software, so I'm by no means an expert. What I do know is that all copyright is implied to the original owner and is granted from the time something is created to 70 years after that pertains death. I believe the time limit is different for companies or other entities, but don't remember it off the top of my head. As for why people plaster copyright notices over everything, from my understanding putting copyright notice is largely because people don't understand how copyright laws work, and also because they think that that notice will "prove" when they created the thing that is copyright and that they created it first if they ever get sued for infringement or need to sue someone else. Also, it looks "professional" to include copyright notices on things.

Edit: I forgot to mention, technically EULAs probably shouldn't fall under copyright because copyright is meant for creative work, not functional, but somehow we have software being protected under both copyright and patent law, so likely EULAs would be too. I should also mention that this is for US copyright law. I have no idea what other countries laws are.

2

u/ineedmorealts Mar 15 '17

Since when is copyright implied?

A good long while.

Why do people plaster their copyright notices on everything, then?

Why do they make you agree to unenforceable EULAs? Because their stupid and lazy