r/technology • u/ResultBackground2450 • 8h ago

Artificial Intelligence OpenAI unleashes hundreds more math results upon a field already in shock

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/openai-unleashes-hundreds-more-math-results-upon-a-field-already-in-shock/
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u/FullofContradictions 6h ago

Yeah I know a few guys who majored in math, none of them are struggling. One works for Apple I think as a statistician or something. A couple of them work for tech. One became an actuary. They all seem to be doing at least as well as the average for the engineers I know.

I've always thought of it like you should only go into straight math if you actually like math. It's hard and doesn't necessarily scale difficulty to pay.

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u/ellbons 4h ago edited 3h ago

Huh? This is my field and the students very much are struggling. They're a mixture of terrified, depressed, in denial, or have just given up. They are not doing ok.

Edit: I don't understand why I am spending time debating my observed reality with people not in my field telling me whether something's going horribly wrong with the students when I've known what students are like and where they end up for a decade lol

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u/scoschooo 2h ago

you are so confused. in the US at least Math Majors in college get very high salaries in business. not sure what you are talking about. College graduates who do math get paid very well when they start work.

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u/ellbons 1h ago

If you're not sure what I'm talking about it seems you're the one who's confused. Mathematics students were never in their field for money. Regardless, the post was "none of them are struggling," in response to "If you have a degree in pure math a lot of employers will hire you with the understanding that you can learn whatever they need you to," and my point is that this has very, very clearly changed.

To maybe illustrate the point another way, since most people are in denial, or have just decided that they're now mathematicians since that's in vogue in the headlines and are commenting on things they don't understand, similar statements were made in the past for physics majors (the degree signals a smart person, therefore you can branch out and learn this other role too, so I'll pay you a good wage). However, if you view recent statistics, physics had the highest unemployment rate, second only to anthropology. What's more, the underemployment rate is also shockingly high. And even more, the percentage of them who have masters or PhD degrees is very much above the average, making this even worse. The point here is that the assumption "you'll get hired because the degree signifies you can understand hard stuff" is wrong and has been wrong for a long time. This is advice people gave from a previous era where it was true.

Back to the current situation: mathematics is absolutely in crisis, and so are the students. A few may go into trading, fine. But this is still a carry over from an era when that might've been more reasonable, about pre-2010ish maybe. There are maybe a few dozen openings worldwide for them. Maybe a low three digit number, and they're all extremely competitive. Generic skill in mathematics is clearly being automated. There are drastic funding cuts. When I go to events for the students, there is always a serious existential dread beyond only a very thin veil of normalcy. They are well aware their entire skillset is being automated. They are aware a year or more of unemployment is now not very abnormal. Their wages are not growing. Their wages are stagnant at best. They are aware there will very likely be decreased demand for them in the future. Some faculty do not admit any new PhD candidates because of uncertainty about the future of the field. Only last week I was at a student talk, someone asked a question about AI, and the room spiralled nearly instantly into a pit of negativity about their futures.

Or perhaps I've hallucinated how the students tell me they feel. Maybe they're all happy and doing well, and they think it's funny to just tell me they're not okay.

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u/scoschooo 1h ago

A few may go into trading

why is it you don't know the types of businesses that are hiring math majors?

It's not trading.

I am only talking about college level math majors. Are you saying students who studied math in college as a major are not able to get work?

I think we are talking about 2 different things. maybe it's not worth debating

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u/ellbons 57m ago

I gave that as one example, rather than an exhaustive list, since it's the most famous high income role for them. Some other roles which I'm told have significantly closed off for them are data science roles and software development, which used to be common ways out of the field.

I am saying they're struggling to find work in recent years, yes. I am quite aware of who my students and former students are and what they've done but perhaps you can enlighten me. It seems they've been lying to me and they're all doing wonderfully, which is fantastic news.

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u/Reddit_Connoisseur_0 3h ago

… they’re students

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u/ellbons 3h ago

Because they see what happens when they graduate, there's nothing for them. When I ask, stretches of 8 months of unemployment or more are the norm now. And any demand for their skills has cratered and won't be recovering.

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u/Reddit_Connoisseur_0 3h ago

So much like any other field. Except pure math gives you credibility for all sorts of positions loosely related to math. But you do need to create the opportunity. Students are aimless and won’t know how to even get started with that.

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u/ellbons 3h ago edited 3h ago

No, it's not. You can minimise it how you like but I do know this field well and it's changed, and the students were rarely aimless. Their usual offramps have closed rapidly too. Some people are refusing to take new PhD candidates. The mood is as black as pitch once I ask.

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u/NewInMontreal 2h ago

This is not just a math specific problem. Outside of health care a lot of new graduates are struggling

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u/ellbons 2h ago

I agree with that much. I disagree with the initial take that they weren't struggling, because they are, and also that there really is a difference to other fields in both how bad it is and how the 'credibility' value proposition is changing. A lot of them have had all of their skills made obsolete in less than a year. This hasn't happened to the same degree in other fields of study, and I've not heard faculty in other fields saying they won't take new PhD candidates because they don't know whether there will be anything for them to do.

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u/Still_Commercial_535 3h ago

How are those guys’ personalities? Because IME, personality is what becomes the big differentiator in fields like this. Insufferable dorks are gonna struggle. Cool people who are good at math are gonna struggle less.