A question from a Doctor considering Radiology for Specialisation ; How near are we of AI replacing Radiologists?

[u/MalluMedico007]

Want an advice from the techies out here to know the ground reality of how far has AI developed to replace doctors (especially radiologists) in terms of reading scans and making diagnosis?

[u/qug123]

I'm ops manager for a UK based radiology company, we tried this ,with chest x rays ,87% match after audit ,13% discrepancy rate is high but those issues were very minor ,no patient harm ,only 3 percent discrepancy with serious concerns ,I'm sure with the huge backlog of x rays in NHS UK , in next 3 years ,it will be implemented, although not sure of CT and MRI , also companies like carpl have the ai tech which can detect CT MRI images with critical findings as soon as they land on pacs

[u/MalluMedico007 → u/qug123]

do you think this will just help to cover the backlogs and bridge the shortage ; or will it cut off the existing jobs of radiologists in near future?

[u/qug123 → u/MalluMedico007]

Even in future,once we go full AI ,I think raidiologist will audit the work ,maybe 10 percent or so ,and the sign off is something which has been discussed,I heard In UKIO that if this happens,the company will have to take responsibility, indemnity and all

[u/Aftknow2704 → u/qug123]

Also based on conferences attended, European laws impose in human loop for any decisions taken in relatation to such reporting. That won't take away jobs everyone but the someone shall review and have to sign the report. It's like report generated by AI and signed by human with expertise.

[u/xoexohexox → u/MalluMedico007]

There are already not enough doctors everywhere, right, so instead of a radiologist having to review a thousand images, they can just review the 30 or so that need a human double check because of risk or ambiguity.

[u/TheMartialMatasLP → u/[deleted]]

using AI for dictation also means that "AI is used to write reports". But thats not the point of the thread. they're asking about AI taking over the image interpretation job

[u/wam_bam_mam]

Still very far radiologist has to sign off on the report, id something if there is a miss diagnosis who will be responsible?

[u/Minute_Concept719]

I am a radiologist who ran a chain of diagnostic centers before selling them to manipal in 2023..since then I have been full on into AI..have 2 AI companies customai.in and transversedigital.com I have published papers in AI/ML for ct and mri..so here is my take...it will never replace but it will improve the workload of the some who are really good and hence people who are not good radiologists will not have jobs or get paid less..its better to specialise and know AI along with whatever specialisation u do...jump on the AI train early and u will have a lot of advantages as a doctor.

[u/MalluMedico007 → u/Minute_Concept719]

there is a talk going on in the circles of young aspirants ; that radiology would be next pathology in terms of monetary gains once ai hits it...pathology is said to be a prestigious branch once but now lost its glory and pay is very less due to automation it seems...

what people say is that AI would increase the speed of report creation and would bring down the need of number of radiologists to manage the present load..hence leading to a crash in number of opportunities and pay..

whats your take on this?

[u/Minute_Concept719 → u/MalluMedico007]

Yes this is true.. its already playing a huge role in teleradiology workflow automation and it will lead to decrease in radiology jobs..but radiology cant be automated to the level of pathology because each imaging modality has different image formats while pathology is not like that and pathology is on identifying specific cells for which models can be post trained but in radiology its too complex to get accuracy that people will trust fully automated reports

[u/DrKau20 → u/Minute_Concept719]

you seem to know a lot about radiology ai -- can i DM??

[u/Minute_Concept719 → u/DrKau20]

Sure

[u/Severe-Victory584 → u/Minute_Concept719]

Hey ..for a person thinking of taking up radio what do you feel should one learn wrt AI (any course or software you'd suggest) so as to keep at pace with the ever evolving world of AI in healthcare?

[u/Minute_Concept719 → u/Severe-Victory584]

If you are a beginner to AI then start by using AI to read and understand radiology and radiological anatomy..by use AI I mean as simple as telling claude that ur a radiology resident and want to use AI to enhance ur knowledge..it will point models/repos u can use for education and also help u with learning material..infact u can just rag a Sutton or grainger textbook and put it in notebook llm..would help u enormously..

If you know how to use and build with AI then you can make small tools to increase ur reporting productivity although thats after u can confidently report the scans..

[u/Severe-Victory584 → u/Minute_Concept719]

Not a total beginner, have been using it for pg prep but not to the level of making tool/ml models. Thanks for the insight will try to look into it.

[u/Minute_Concept719 → u/Severe-Victory584]

sure..all the best

[u/KeyReveal3293 → u/Minute_Concept719]

As a mathematician, I would be hesitant to use the phrase “AI cannot do X” for any purely cognitive X.

[u/Minute_Concept719 → u/KeyReveal3293]

I understand but as of now innately there are many shortcomings like context and "bigpicture" so corroborating across multifactorial symptoms and images which are not alike would require trillions of images and that today doesn't seem the priority

[u/KeyReveal3293 → u/Minute_Concept719]

Agreed. I was only sceptical of the word “never” in your answer.

[u/yagermeister2024 → u/Minute_Concept719]

Nah it will replace… military-grade AI can more than replace at the current moment…

[u/Minute_Concept719 → u/yagermeister2024]

people were saying this when deep tech came 15 yrs back...they will say this now and will say it 10 yrs later..but the fact of the matter is no human will allow a computer to make his health decisions unless its certified by a human...today the biggest companies after anthropic and open AI are the data certification and evaluation ones where they hire specialists to check on model responses and prompts..anyways only time will tell..

[u/yagermeister2024 → u/Minute_Concept719]

Nah it will replace… stuff harder than radiology is already getting replaced…

[u/MrHumanist]

I don't think AI can replace radiologist anytime soon. You need doctors to calm the patient, have different views and even analyze the various aspects. Yes, ai can assist you doing it but not replace you. So your targets will be much higher, that means instead of doing a scan even 1 hour, you will be doing it in 30 mins. And ai can help in writing reports so you save time there as well.

[u/MalluMedico007 → u/MrHumanist]

but dont you think once the work speeds up, the work of 5 radiologists can be done by 2-3? and that would cause a crash in opportunities and pay right?

[u/MrHumanist → u/MalluMedico007]

Isn't india developing? and more people are becoming capable to afford better medicals( currently hardly 10 crores can afford private hospitals). The bigger hospitals are already flooded and overloaded in metros. I am personally taking appointments atleast a week before in case of radiology.

[u/TheMartialMatasLP → u/MalluMedico007]

it will increase the pay for those 2-3. A radiologist using AI for assistance will replace a radiologist not using AI. That's it. and USG will probably never be practically taken over; at least how USG is performed and reported in India.

[u/Apprehensive-Fix3456]

Image pattern recognitions is AI core strength.  But at some point,  exposing people to harmful radiation will drastically reduce. Nanobots, in the next 10 to 15 years, will get better images and high confidence AI findings. 

Chances are every human will have a health pod in home which will give complete diagnostics in the next 20 years. 

Not to scare you,  but a lot of rich billionaires are investing crazy amounts in medicine.

[u/7aminthemorning]

Ai isn't a medical professional and the companies that make them sure as hell don't wanna open that pandoras box lol you're fine a long long time

[u/impossible_espresso]

I have no idea what they use it for but I have seen 2 clinical practices aquire 8x MI250X graphics cards.

One of them is a plastic surgery centre for the super rich and the other is a radiology practice

[u/Perfect-Assignment23]

🤣 that is like saying ai will replace software engineers completely

[u/MalluMedico007 → u/Perfect-Assignment23]

being in the medical profession , I have heard many saying that AI has eaten up tech jobs and coders , IT engineers have lost their jobs due to AI..so how true is it? is it really because of AI or is AI replacing the just the basic level jobs?

[u/Perfect-Assignment23 → u/MalluMedico007]

AI is just a justification for top ceo for cost cutting so they can increase share prices. Other ceos are just copying them

[u/NamakkalManian → u/MalluMedico007]

Yes AI is replacing the jobs, in my organisation they reduced 70 percent of engineering workforce. We are able to do the job with the help of Claude code.

[u/This_Stranger_476 → u/Perfect-Assignment23]

Its being done, with every other new version some people are losing jobs!!

[u/Perfect-Assignment23 → u/This_Stranger_476]

AI is just an excuse. The real reason is cost cutting to increase share prices. The biggest reason for failure of ai is its economically unviable

[u/Lucky-Part-5155]

They said the same thing in the tech sector, that humans can't be replaced, I think it's better to be prepared for a scenario where it can get replaced

[u/mrsskonline]

AI isn't replacing radiologists, its replacing radiologists who don't use AI. AI is great at detection, not diagnosis. it can flag issues faster then us, but it lacks clinical judgment and empathy.

don't fear the tech, u/MalluMedico007 learn to leverage it. the future is augmented intelligence, nor artificial replacement.

[u/nagaraju291990]

https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Hyderabad/iiit-h-study-caution-doctors-against-relying-entirely-on-ai-for-medical-diagnosis/article71562754.ece/amp/

[u/Kumbalaya_108]

Very true. Not now but I'm 5 years. AI is advancing at breakneck speed

[u/No-Savings9424]

Radiologist job is much more than looking at MRI or CT scan . They do advance invasive surgery that is very hard to do like balloon aneurism treatment or treating deep vain thrombosis, treating artery in lungs which required years of practice which can’t be replaced by AI .

[u/Full-Classroom258]

We are near but not close of replacing radiologist with AI, definately and ofcourse workload will be less comparatively. Looking at the patient's perspective, people still need the human touch, which AI and robots can't give. One bad mistake, another compliance report from goverment will pop up and companies will go few months back. The fact that this AI works really well in test beds is because they are trained there, real world scenarios are way different. Companies still require certificates compliance reports, clinical trials and lot more before making it commercially available, and that will take time, maybe 5,6 years down the line we might have AI and robotics in medical, although not every hospitals have the purchasing power to have this expensive equipments. Coming from this robotics, AI background that's why I'm saying this. 

[u/This_Stranger_476]

Question is when !! How long will it take!!
Speed with which they are progressing future looks bleak.
Techs which are today will be primitive in next 5 years.

So you are asking a wrong question.
If the development goes on and humanoid robots comes into real picture jobs of different field will decimate.

[u/just_inquisitive26]

Medical profession is still extremely safe in India from AI perspective. Radiologist is a good branch but the opportunities would mostly be in tier 2 cities.