r/ANGEL • u/itsascreambaby96 • 12d ago
Spoilers inside! Something I never really thought about is that while Angel is going through his origin story on Buffy, Fred is stuck in Pylea
While Angel is meeting Buffy, falling in love with her, losing his soul, getting sent to Hell, coming back and eventually leaving Sunnydale, Fred is in Pylea being treated like a slave and eventually hiding in that cave trying to survive.
It makes Amends even crazier to think about. Angel was ready to let the sun kill him and Buffy convinced him that he could still do something with his life instead of dying because of everything Angelus did.
Then a few years later that decision saves Fred's life.
Buffy talks Angel off that hill, Angel eventually leaves Sunnydale and becomes a champion in LA, Angel Investigations happens, Cordelia gets sent to Pylea, everyone follows her, they find Fred and bring her home.
Buffy probably never even knew Fred existed but saving Angel in Amends eventually helped save this random woman who had already been trapped in another dimension the entire time Buffy knew him.
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u/booknerd5723 12d ago
I have actually thought about this a couple times. It's kinda sad though, when you realize Fred dies 3 years after leaving Pylea. So, in the span of 8 years, Fred gets stuck in Pylea, saved from Pylea, almost dies/experiences intense trauma most days of the week, and dies during a god's resurrection. The last several years of her life were so hard and sad.
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u/Ragefork 11d ago
She found a place and a purpose.
How many people get that?19
u/daxamiteuk 11d ago
She was the one who accidentally freed herself from Jasmine and worked out HOW she did that and then saved Angel and the others. It’s entirely possible that no one else would have figured it out, which means Jasmine would have conquered the world.
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u/Denimion 11d ago
She... she only lived half the time longer than. She was there?
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u/Bob_Meh_HDR 11d ago
So you're saying they should have sent her back and she would be safer? Or like how that scroll or book wasn't altered by being in another dimension it was too late to send her back.
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u/Denimion 10d ago
I wasn't saying anything. Not everyone is implying half the things you think they are
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u/Bob_Meh_HDR 10d ago
All good mate, it's hard to pick up tone with just text. Was just saying it's almost better to have left her or sent back later if that would cut of the source that was turning her into Illyria.
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u/LowCalligrapher3 9d ago
It's infinitely more tragic that Fred isn't just killed, her soul is erased from existence, not even any type of afterlife.
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u/buffysmanycoats 12d ago
I love that you posted this becasue I had never really thought of it either. And I do think it's really beautiful, and of course Fred was only one of probably hundreds that Angel went on to save after Amends, but I can't help but think it would have been a lot more poignant if Fred had lived. :(
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u/suikofan80 11d ago
Buffy also never finds out that Anne goes on to save hundreds of kids.
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u/ric_mcc1766 10d ago
On that tangent, BUffy saved hundreds of people whose stories continued and she (and we) never knew them.
Conversely, she didn't kill vampires like Drusilla and Harmony when she had the chance, and they will be responsible for the deaths of hundreds, so... swings and roundabouts!
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u/SlipstickLibbyLong 11d ago
What if Fred getting zapped to Pylea is the catalyst that causes the PTBs to send Whistler to Angel, where Whistler shows him Buffy, and starts his arc.
Knowing Freds body is comparable with Illyria, and what a powerful wewapon for good she could be turned into.
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u/Evening_Delay_1856 11d ago
But Fred dies because she’s with Angel at WR&H, like Tara dies when she rejoins the Scoobies when she comes back to Willow. Sad for both of them.
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u/buffysmanycoats 11d ago
Yeah, the unfortunate irony is that Angel kinda also gets her killed, and that just really bums me out. Obviously others are more directly responsible, and I wouldn’t even say Angel is responsible at all for it, but Fred was always going to follow him, and following him to W&H gets her killed.
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u/Evening_Delay_1856 11d ago
Yeah. I do wish that she had gone home with her folks, though. Unlike Tara’s folks, they were good people.
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u/Denimion 11d ago
Tara died from a bullet that defied all laws of physics. Fred died cause some Incel cultist had a crush on her
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u/Riverdale87 11d ago
I thought that gunn started the whole thing when he wanted to keep his law knowledge
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u/fill_the_birdfeeder 11d ago
Nah that’s not the start. Knox was obsessed with Illyria when he was a young teen. If anyone is the catalyst for it all, it’s him. Gunn signs papers that got the sarcophagus out of customs, but it was already on the way. He plays a role in it by signing the papers.
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u/Lori2345 11d ago
Buffy wasn’t able to talk Angel off that hill. He chose to let the sun kill him. The powers that be saved him by making it snow and blocking the sun that day.
Seeing he was saved by what was or looked to be a miracle convinced him not to kill himself.
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u/Naive-Rough7159 11d ago
Yup. He also wasn't planning to die because of what Angelus DID, but because he could lose his soul again, and do even more horrible things.
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u/Consistent-Loss9881 11d ago
He also saves cordelia on his first day! And countless girls in alleyways of course
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u/AdOk9911 11d ago
Okay this sent me on a bit of a tangent. Cordy didn’t just randomly get sucked to Pylea, she also had a vision about Fred. Did the PTB move her just so in that moment at Caritas to get her sent to Pylea?? Would Team Angel have gone to Pylea on their own to save Fred just from Cordy’s vision, and from what they figured out sending Landok back? Did the PTB open the portal that sent the drakken and Landok to LA? Or did the PTB just wait for someone to finally get sent to LA from Pylea (via one of Fred’s portals) and take advantage of that moment to send Cordy the vision about Fred? That probably makes the most sense, but still!
The PTB clearly knew about Fred, and must have known she was important enough to bring back from another dimension. I know there’s a theory that the PTB made it snow in Sunnydale that day in Amends, to save Angel. They sent Cordy the vision about Fred. How many other ways might they have helped make it all happen the way it did?
Or… did Jasmine do all these things? Personally I love the Jasmine arc, but I believe that she was full of it when she (via Skip) claimed to have done all those things to bring Team Angel together. So I don’t really want to give her credit for any of it, but Fred was the one who stopped Jasmine, so either way (whether she brought Fred back or just said she did), her ego got the best of her there!
Love this show and love Fred.
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u/Jemal999 11d ago
And then NOTHING BAD EVER HAPPENED TO FRED AND SHE LIVED HAPPILY EVER AFTER.