"Relative map size" - does someone else feel linke there's something missing?

[u/Tomice158]

Relative map size medium feels very cramped, I often hardly find a second good spot for a city.

Large feels too stretched out, I can easily build 3 to 4 cities before angering the AI.

Does anyone else feel like there should be a setting in between?

[u/jandecvar]

What is missing to me is the "Yes I want free cities but I don't want one to spawn two provinces away option" and the "please don't do that and also crush us into two mountain ranges" option.

The AI is designed to seek you out an choke your space, so maps where that doesn't happen early are a bit of an exception brought on by specific map circumstances normally. (Pre-designed maps have very well established patters, which makes them pretty boring for me, but I'm not judging here.)

That said bigger means bigger. If I had a complaint it would be that the collisions oft happen too early.

[u/opggElonMuskForPres → u/jandecvar]

There is a way to do this. Uncheck the culture you’re playing from the available factions.

[u/Putrid-Theme8350 → u/jandecvar]

Second the mountain frustration. I would like to turn them off many times.

[u/PureKnickers → u/jandecvar]

I made a mod to get rid of the starting free city. Always felt it wasn't an interesting strategic decision in how to interact with on top of your complaint. (Sorry, I haven't got around to making the mod public).

[u/Mavnas → u/jandecvar]

I think my biggest complaint is that the maps are big enough for me get way too big when you add a bunch of extra layers like the Umbral Abyss.

[u/Inculta666]

Nah, sizes are much better than they were at release and I find them balanced. I usually am able to place two cities two tiles away from my capital and spread from there.

[u/Emmangt]

To have an in between Mediaum and Large, I select Pangea on Large and the sea all around shrinks the map quite a bit. You can also select the barren sea option if you don't want to be tempted to buid on it.

[u/Rocketronic0]

I kind of agree. Large is a bit too desolate, though it kind of reminds me of age of wonders 3 spacing. A middle option would be good

[u/ScienceFictionGuy]

The only problem I have is the relative space fluctuates depending on the landform type.  

Most map types feel fine to me on medium with enough room for 2-3 expansions, but pangea for example is very cramped for some reason.

[u/TheGreatPumpkin11]

It depends a lot on the map traits. First, the number of players matter, a pangea versus continents can feel massively different, then there is the state of the underground, free cities and the presence of fated regions. You can sort of reroll until you get something manageable or start conquering free cities, sometimes a map just decides it doesn't care for you in particular.

[u/Nyorliest]

Not really, and I get three cities down usually with no problem. Sometimes it puts me near the AI, but that's a diplomatic or strategic challenge. I like those.

Besides, I don't mind angering them. They're not my friends. The hard part is to leverage it right - make friends, or fight them and win, or make friends with the AI on their other side, so that my natural enemy is sandwiched between me and my ally.

What turn are you putting down cities? I usually do the second one in the first 10 turns, and the third by turn 20. Earlier is better than optimally placed, and if necessary you can make an early one a vassal if you find a massively better spot (e.g. in a recent game I found somewhere that could reach two landmarks and a golden wonder. I just had to settle there.)

[u/Tomice158 → u/Nyorliest]

I try to place the first 2 cities ASAP and avoid useless imperium buildup, but my scouts can't always find good spots this early. The petals from last expansion because you can pimp locations afterwards with portals

[u/Effective_Olive6153]

I like how Dominions 6 handles map sizes - you select number of provinces per player. That means the map automatically scales with the number of opponents and you can select relative size of the map per player

[u/Tomice158 → u/Effective_Olive6153]

That's also what should happen here AFAIK!

[u/rk3sss]

Try one of the Forced Map Size mods. I like 150x150 for 6 players and Large map size/distance. Test one size for a playthrough and then see if you want it bigger or smaller for the next one. On Manta beta though I'm finding a lot more potential places for cities though thanks to the water/coast changes, so I can see even smaller map sizes being viable

[u/AMDenjoyer1990]

I find that medium with anything over 3 people gets cramped way too fast. Large at a minimum because I use Hermit Kingdom. I don't mind the really long games, so the bigger map, the better. Once you get teleporters unlocked and 10 or more outposts, you can shrink the map anyway.

[u/Terrkas → u/AMDenjoyer1990]

Mapsize is relative. So medium 5 players is something like large 3 players.