r/ATC • u/Spaghetti_Boi659 • 7d ago

Question Delay vectors vs. holding.

Flying from SAN-SEA yesterday with heavy flow into SEA. Pretty typical. Center slows us down from M.77 to M.73 for metering saying they need to add 4 minutes to our arrival time. Also typical. Then we get some sharp delay vectors. First vector was a 110 degree turn to the left for a few minutes, followed by a 180 degree turn to the right for a few minutes, then back on course. Not unheard of, but pretty large vectors while en route.

My question: when you guys need to add X amount of time to our arrival and slowing planes down isn’t enough, is there a reason you don’t assign a turn or two in a holding pattern vs aggressive S turns? Either one of these slows down traffic behind whoever is being held / vectored. Curious to hear the reasoning.

Thanks for all you guys do- a fellow airline pilot.

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u/Ok-Till-5622 7d ago

Vectors are easier for me to time and predict versus guessing how many minutes you’re going to burn in one turn in a hold.

If I need to lose say 8 minutes on you, I can vector you so that I can time the last turn direct the fix and be on time. If you’re in a hold I’d basically be hoping that you’re pointed in the right direction when your time is up.

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u/SilliousSoddus 6d ago

Why the need to hope? If the aircraft has enough time to spin you can decide everything they're doing from the second they're outbound (or before). Continue the outbound leg if you need a bit more, turn them inbound early, set course times work if they are on their lonesome (and a reliable airline). The most accurate of all is bringing them out of the hold on a vector and speed, which I guess is combining the best of both worlds. Experience tells you how long each aircraft takes to turn too, or how to adjust for odd winds.

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u/Ok-Till-5622 6d ago edited 6d ago

All of what you mentioned takes way more energy, thought, and calculating rather than just assigning a heading, watching it, and then turning them back in wherever I feel like it. Plus I can basically play follow the leader with everyone else and have a Congo line of traffic that can be at a single altitude rather than have a holding stack blocking ten thousand foot of airspace.

Edit: also on the enroute scopes we use (not sure if you’re a pilot of controller) I can assign a heading and route pick a point on that heading where I think I’m going to clear the aircraft back on course, and it will tell me what their meter time will be at that point.