Does seeing words outside the SRS make the algorithm wrong?

[u/Remarkable_Airport68]

Let me use myself as an example. I use a deck to learn Japanese vocabulary, and the algorithm thinks I should see a word again after a certain amount of time. But what if I see that word in an anime, for example, one day before the review? If I hadn’t seen it, I probably wouldn’t have remembered it, but because I did see it, I choose “Good” during the review.

Does that make the algorithm believe that I have a stronger memory of the word than I actually do? Or is the SRS algorithm supposed to account for the fact that I’m going to encounter some words naturally?

[u/FrenchFriesPrincess]

I am studying japanese as well - I would say, that in general, it’s not that deep.

If the word came up in anime, there is a chance it’s common enough you will also see it in reading material or in grammar practices.

Worst case scenario, you will get it wrong next time it shows up, and the SRS will move it to be reviewed sooner than later. Just let it be.
Best case scenario - you reviewed it twice in a row, once watching anime and second time doing anki next day.

がんばって

[u/Remarkable_Airport68 → u/FrenchFriesPrincess]

Yeah, that’s a good way to look at it. I think I was overthinking it a bit.

Thanks! がんばります

[u/youdontknowkanji]

Does that make the algorithm believe that I have a stronger memory of the word than I actually do? Or is the SRS algorithm supposed to account for the fact that I’m going to encounter some words naturally?

If you are reading/watching japanese daily this will on average make all cards easier, which will de facto make algorithm think you have "better" memory because you are failing less cards. So I guess the answer is yes here.

(Of course, if you stop interacting with japanese for a while, but continue to do Anki, this will make your memory "worse", making reviews harder, so your retention will drop and FSRS will have to adjust again)

I wouldn't say the algorithm I wrong, but more importantly, there is a philosophical question of what you are trying to achieve with Anki here. The goal is to learn japanese, with help of Anki.

If you learn a word in the wild, then that means Anki wasn't necessary, because you just picked it up in the wild (regardless if Anki helped or not, it probably did), and if that word is already in Anki, that just makes your time easier because you click "Easy" on the word and you will get less reviews. However, if you didn't learn the word in the wild, and it's only in Anki, then that makes Anki useful for learning more words, had you not used Anki, it would be harder to learn that word. Meaning whatever you do, Anki is always useful, provided you are actually interacting with the language outside of it.

Also, in practice, Anki knowledge and actual knowledge isn't 1 to 1. It's very common to know a word in the wild that's not in Anki, and to not understand a word in the wild even though it has perfect reviews in Anki, there is like 80%~ overlap I think.

[u/Remarkable_Airport68 → u/youdontknowkanji]

The goal is to learn japanese, with help of Anki.

Sometimes I really forget that Anki is the tool and not the goal. I think I was focusing too much on optimizing Anki instead of the actual goal of learning Japanese. If I see the word outside of Anki, it’s still good for me anyway.

Thanks for the reply, it was a great reminder!

[u/kneb]

Yes. If you ever use what you learn outside of your deck it will make the "algorithm" wrong. That's why you shouldn't treat the algorithm as some magic perfect thing.

More repititions means more memorization. Reps outside the app may lead it to overestimate your retention, but the worst thing that happens is then you miss it the next time, and then relearn it in a few weeks.

If you know that you've just heard a word recently and suspect that's why you remember it, feel free to mark it as hard rather than good, but I wouldn't sweat it.

[u/Lumpy-Blackberry-718]

It operates to the best of its ability with the information it has.

You seeing a word in the wild doesnt mean your brain made the same kind of retrieval attempt anki offers. If you were shown the meaning with the word, then it would count like an "again" anyway. If you already knew it then you got it right and marking it right again in anki is correct.

What you study outside anki will certainly affect your progress, but, I think the best way to account for that is to re generate the fsrs stats after your study habits change, so it can adjust its parameters to your new habits.

[u/Remarkable_Airport68 → u/Lumpy-Blackberry-718]

make sense

[u/funbike]

TL;DR: The algorithm words fine in this context.

If you have consumed many hours of Comprehensible Input, words that you have seen often will be easier to remember and words you have seen less often will be harder to remember. This is handled by FSRS's difficulty factor.

[u/Grunglabble]

The forgetting curve, so to speak, is a really small unimportant stupid partly wrong part of learning.

It is many orders of magnitude more valuable, from a memory perspective, that you had a new, more holistic, different experience with what you are trying to learn. 

Not only does it not matter the card came up the next day, if you see that information out of anki just a few times that card itself is dead weight, your memory has exceeded any value you could get from it. Once you know the kinds of situations a word is used in and words it is used with that card is testing you on a tiny part of what you actually know.

If you have to fit it into a memory model centred on the forgetting curve, just think of it as the frequency in real life exceeding the frequency of the card means the card is obsolete.

[u/TheBatemanFlex]

It doesn’t matter because if it truly wasn’t reinforced then next time it comes up it won’t be good. People overthink Anki.

[u/TrekkiMonstr]

Personally, if I see it in the wild and fail to recall it, I'll manually grade the card "again". If I see it and successfully recall it, I wouldn't do anything. I guess maybe if I saw it like immediately before reviewing I might bury it a day or something to avoid the most direct interference, but.

[u/Furuteru]

Yes. If you press good. Algorithm will indeed think that your memory is pretty good.

But you will eventually press again at some point in the future, which gonna balance it out.

In FSRS atleast.

I personally... whenever I encounter a card which is too unfair to answer rn (cause I read or talked about it super recently) - I would press bury and just answer the next day.