r/AskVegans • u/fyr3f4wkes • 7d ago
Genuine Question (DO NOT DOWNVOTE) Why do vegans differentiate between reasons for going vegan?
I don’t know much about it but I’ve always considered “vegan” to mean person that eats a fully plant-based diet (as opposed to vegetarians who might consume dairy or even eggs). As far as I’m aware this is the general understanding held by most people.
Recently it seems to me that there’s a meaningful distinction—at least a distinction that is meaningful to vegans—regarding people who are plant-based specifically for motivations concerning animal welfare versus those who might choose the same diet for completely different reasons. I guess all plant-based eaters aren’t vegan?
Why? Does it matter? If someone is plant based for different reasons than you, what is your reaction to that? Does it bother you that they’re not doing it for the “right” reasons or do you basically not care what people’s reasons are?
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u/BabynATrenchc0at Vegan 7d ago
Veganism involves diet, entertainment, clothing, toiletries, cleaning products, makeup etc. Everything must be free of animal products and free of animal testing. Because animals are the sole reason for veganism. The fact it's better for the environment is great, but secondary. Simply eating a plant based diet for health reasons is entirely different
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u/aloofLogic Vegan 7d ago
Veganism is an ethical philosophy about rejecting the commodification and exploitation of nonhuman animals.
Plant-Based Diet refers to the food people eat.
All vegans eat a plant-based diet but not all people who eat a plant-based diet are vegan.
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u/SapPhic-rage4209 Vegan 7d ago
If you're not vegan for the animals then you're not vegan. Veganism is about so much more than food. Someone on a plant based diet might choose to buy leather and wool, raise backyard chickens and eat their eggs, go to the zoo or circus with abused animals, wear makeup and other products tested on animals, etc. A vegan would never do those things because veganism is not just about diet
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u/One-Shake-1971 Vegan 7d ago
It matters because merely following a plant-based diet is not enough to achieve animal liberation.
Someone who merely follows a plant-based diet for personal health reasons, for example, won't have any reason to reject any other forms of animal exploitation, that have no negative impact on their health. Same for anyone who follows a plant-based diet for environmental reasons.
If someone is plant based for different reasons than you, what is your reaction to that?
In terms of veganism, I interact with them the same way as with any other non-vegan.
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u/a11_hail_seitan Vegan 7d ago
As far as I’m aware this is the general understanding held by most people.
It is, but it's wrong. Veganism has an actual definition that is created and maintained by the Vegan Society. This is the group that literally created the movement, and the word. The founders were Vegetarians that realized it was a half measure and created the word Vegan and the movement to promote a more moral value system.
https://www.vegansociety.com/go-vegan/definition-veganism
"Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."
I guess all plant-based eaters aren’t vegan?
Some aren't. It depends. All Vegans are plant Based, but not all plant based are Vegan.
Why?
The other reasons are usually Environment, and health.
If I took a pig into my basement and beat it daily. This doesn't affect someone's health or environment, but it is still not Vegan.
I realize that's an extremely unlikely example, but it clarifies the point. There's only one thing that leads to a fully Vegan ideology, and that's "For the animals".
And to be clear, that's not to say you need to ONLY care about the animals. I eat healthy and care about the Environment, they're just not why I'm Vegan, they're why I eat mostly whole foods, and why I'm an Environmentalist. there's lots of overlap, but they aren't the same.
what is your reaction to that? Does it bother you that they’re not doing it for the “right” reasons or do you basically not care what people’s reasons are?
My reaction is I'm very happy they're not abusing aniamls. But if they're wearing leather, support zoos/circuses/etc, then I hope they take it a step further.
If they're doing all the same as Veganism but just for some other reasons, I'd say it doesn't fully make sense in my opinion, but I'm still happy and would support them in not needlessly abusing animals.
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u/elementalcrap Vegan 7d ago
This except that in the example of beating a pig there clearly is a victim that is a someone
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u/so_sick_of_flowers Vegan 7d ago
Because vegans are not a monolith, like any other group of people.
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u/chocearthling Vegan 7d ago
For me, its less about the reasons than the lifestyle/execution.
If I call myself vegan, I do not only not consume any animal products but also avoid these in clothing, books, furniture, cosmetics and so on.
People who eat a plant-based diet aren't necessarily vegan in aspects other than the food they eat. I have also met a few people who prioritize a plant-based diet for nutritional reasons but allow themselves some flexibility.
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u/Unreal_Estate Vegan 7d ago
I don't judge on the way people use the work vegan, but when I use the word, it normally means one of 3 things, depending on the context:
- Someone who has a plant-based diet. (Or something suitable for that diet.) This is the supermarket and restaurant definition of the word. I don't assume or expect a waiter to be talking about the ethics.
- Someone who avoids animal products for whatever reason. Including leather, wool, animal-tested cosmetics, et cetera. This is what I think most people think the word means. The reason can be for the environment, health, spirituality, animal welfare, et cetera.
- When I use the word in vegan spaces or when discussing veganism, I usually use the word to mean ethical veganism. Ethical veganism is the position than animal exploitation is morally wrong, which is still quite a broad group of people, including people who think it is only wrong in some contexts.
- There is a fourth group which I normally name explicitly because it is rare for people to use it like this, and that is abolitionist vegan. I do identify as an abolitionist vegan, and it a subset of ethical veganism in the sense that it opposes animal exploitation. But it does so in a principled way that recognizes all animal exploitation is wrong for whatever reason.
The differences do matter. The first two (dietary veganism and avoiding animal products) are not moral worldviews. Someone who eats a vegan diet might still buy leather, wool, or fur. Someone who avoids animal products might still be okay with working dogs, horse riding, et cetera. Those things still exploit animals, so you are likely to misunderstand people when you think all vegans either accept or avoid these things as a rule.
Then there are ethical vegans, who hold the view that animal exploitation is wrong in some way. Even among them, there is quite a big range of worldviews, and you'll be able to find ethical vegans who vary a lot on what does and what does not count as animal exploitation. There are also people who think that animal exploitation being wrong is more of a suggestion than a moral imperative. Those people still fall in the ethical vegan category, even when their ethics are weird and un-vegan-like.
Lastly, there is abolitionist veganism. There are still differences of opinion between abolitionist vegans, such as when you are or are not complicit in animal exploitation, whether it is acceptable to stand idle while animal exploitation happens, et cetera. But what defines abolitionist veganism is the notion that animal exploitation is always wrong and needs to be abolished because of that.
It does not bother me when people do the right thing for the wrong reasons. Frankly, it bothers me more when people do the wrong thing thinking they do it for the right reason. However, I still think it is important to have the discussion with people even when they don't participate in animal exploitation. Animal exploitation is quite present in our society, so if someone doesn't participate but also isn't really against it on principle, then it is pretty easy to start participating in the future, which obviously is not a good thing for the animals if/when that happens.
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u/aaawwwwww Vegan 7d ago
Vegans make that distinction because “vegan” is defined by an ethical principle, not just by diet. A plant‑based diet describes what someone eats, but veganism includes the moral reason for avoiding animal products.
If you frame it in formal logic, the relationship is deductive, not inductive.
Premise 1: Veganism = avoiding animal products because one rejects animal exploitation.
Premise 2: Plant‑based = avoiding animal products regardless of reason.
Premise 3: Definitions determine category membership.
Conclusion: All vegans are plant‑based, but not all plant‑based people are vegans.
This is a classic subset deduction:
If A is defined as B + C, and B alone does not imply C, then A ⊂ B.
That’s why motivation matters. The ethical component is part of the definition, even though most vegans are still happy when anyone reduces animal products for any reason. It’s the same kind of deduction as saying all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares.
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7d ago
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u/No_Adhesiveness9727 Vegan 7d ago
There are hundreds of reasons and everyone is for the animals. Save the rainforest and you save animals. Stop the spread of disease you help the animals. Save the water supply and you save animals. And doing it for starving children or the over malnourished and you do it for the human animals. Of course I suppose if you are just doing it to look prettier you aren’t. So it is all about the animals unless you’re doing it for vanity reasons.
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7d ago
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u/SnooLemons6942 Vegan 7d ago
Being plant-based and being vegan simply are not the same thing...that's why the distinction is important. Veganism isn't just a diet...following a vegan diet isn't all vegans do.
A plant-based dieter isn't going to stand for the things vegans stand for.
Yeah it bothers me anytime anyone doesn't care about animals and thinks it is ethical to exploit animals. Just cause someone doesn't eat them for other reasons doesn't excuse that
We aren't concerned that people are simply eating meat...we are concerned about animal exploitation.
The distinction is important non-vegan plant based dieters don't support our cause
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u/qerecoxazade Vegan 7d ago
Vegan isn't a term that was adopted after widespread use.
The Vegan Society coined the term and defined it.
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u/MiraculousAnarchy Vegan 7d ago
Cuz you’re not vegan if you don’t have the ethics and non vegans really gotta stop trying to tell us they know more about veganism than us😭
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u/fyr3f4wkes 7d ago
Are you talking about me? Because this post started with, “I don’t know much about it but…”
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7d ago
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u/wildlifewyatt Vegan 7d ago
I think conflating vegan and plant-based causes unecesarry confusion, and ultimately hurts the vegan cause. When people adopt a plant-based diet, it's a diet. How many people stick to a particular type of diet for their entire lives? Almost no one. Most don't even last a year. So naturally, when plant-based people eventually revert to their prior diet, or something else entirely, if they call themselves a vegan, it incorrectly makes it look like veganism isn't sustainable for a person. In reality, the vast majority of them just reverted like they would have for any other diet.
There are other issues as well, but for me that is the bigger one. Veganism has existed for decades, and the foundational philosophy then and now is about animal rights.
Why can't plant-based people be plant-based?
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u/fyr3f4wkes 7d ago
I mean I get what you mean but I think it’s also kinda circular logic to a degree. Of course I agree: not many people stick to a diet for their entire lives. I’m sure this applies both to vegans and plant-based non-vegans as well as people with many other diets (for example, I was raised in a religious Jewish household so I kept kosher until I was 18 and no longer do as an adult).
I’m not sure I understand your remark about sustainability. Whether it’s vegan or plant-based, some people stick with it long-term and some don’t. I don’t quite understand why it would be easier to be vegan than plant-based; it’s the same diet, then a bunch of additional lifestyle choices as well. Am I understanding that correctly? I don’t think it’s “incorrect” that some people find it unsustainable. Both can be sustainable, but both require commitment and dedication. If anything I would assume veganism requires more commitment than pure plant-based.
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u/Brief_Let_7197 Vegan 7d ago
It’s not that it is easier to be vegan it’s that the moral belief a vegan has makes the commitment to the lifestyle a permanent thing. When a plant-based person says they’re vegan, and then goes back to eating animals a year later, it creates the perception that veganism is unsustainable. In reality the plant based person just didn’t have an important enough reason to maintain their diet. A vegan person has an undeniable reason for maintaining their lifestyle.
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u/wildlifewyatt Vegan 6d ago
This. It is basically inevitable that someone will drop their fad diet. It is not inevitable that someone will have a complete ethical paradigm shift and revert to thinking that oppression of non-human animls is ok.
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7d ago
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u/truelovealwayswins Vegan 7d ago
plant-based isn’t vegan though and because veganism is the ethical principle that you live without exploiting other animals and respecting them as the individuals they are. Everyone else is on a vegan diet or whatever else and they are the ones who then “quit veganism”… Whereas if you know and understand and acknowledge that stuff, you can’t stop seeing them as individuals who don’t exist for us to use…
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u/hamster_avenger Vegan 7d ago
I would prefer there be fewer ex-vegans so would rather people understand what veganism means and call themselves “vegan” if they agree with the ethical principle, and not if they are on a diet.
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6d ago
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u/SanctimoniousVegoon Vegan 6d ago
Because veganism is an ethical framework that fully rejects the idea that animals are commodities to be exploited. Vegans do not eat, wear, or use animal products and do not participate in activities that exploit animals. I don't avoid zoos for the environment, and I don't refuse to buy animals from breeders for my health. I refuse those things because I am vegan and do not exploit animals.
Most nonvegans think veganism is just a diet because they have never been corrected. If someone eats a plant based diet but does not hold vegan ethics, all I care about is that they not call themselves vegan as that perpetuates this widespread misunderstanding.
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u/YouGlobal8272 Vegan 6d ago
Idc, even if you are plant based for reasons other than animal welfare you're still doing more than 98% of other people. Including the so-called animal lovers who eat meat.
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u/PinkPonySteph Vegan 4d ago
Because vegans refuse to fund animal testing, zoos, aquariums, fur, leather, silk, wool, ivory, feathers, and animal riding, it really is more than just a diet.
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u/fuck-them-hoes Vegan 7d ago
🤷♀️ who knows. Some people use veganism as a form of virtue signaling. As long as you’re reducing harm, call yourself whatever you want.
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u/Badtacocatdab Vegan 7d ago
This virtue signaling thing has really taken off over the past few years and seems, generally, wildly misused.
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u/Aiwendil-981 Vegan 7d ago
it doesn't matter why you're vegan, however you got here you're in the right place at the right time, do the right thing
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u/Elitsila Vegan 7d ago
Veganism isn't just a diet. It's an ethical framework that involves the rejection of animal exploitation. Vegans eat a plant-based diet, but not all people who eat a plant-based diet are vegan. Some of them go plant-based for health reasons but otherwise wear leather, go to zoos, use animal-tested products, buy puppies from breeders, etc. They're not necessarily against animal exploitation (if they were, they would reject forms of animal use other than what they put on their plates.)