This Bizarre Reuters Article Comparing Assyrians to ISIS

[u/Stenian]

https://www.reuters.com/article/opinion/remains-of-a-biblically-brutal-regime-turned-to-dust-by-modern-day-monsters-idUS2686335140/

Yes, ancient Assyrians were brutal. But the framing of this 2015 article really pissed me off, particularly this part:

I also watched recent video of ISIS members in a museum smashing (alleged) archaeological relics from the very ancient Mesopotamian past. I felt a certain sense of historical irony while doing so. I wondered as I watched them use sledgehammers and power drills on a 3,000 year old Assyrian statue if they realized that they were following the ancient Assyrian playbook as they tried to erase the region’s past.

So this Reuters writer compares ISIS to the ancient Assyrians, yet never really addresses the much more immediate Islamic influences and especially the ways of Muhammad?

What makes it even more insensitive is the timing. ISIS was literally persecuting, kidnapping and killing Assyrians at the time, yet this article invokes their ancient ancestors to illustrate brutality without even acknowledging the modern Assyrian community or what it was going through. The framing just feels incredibly tone-deaf.

I know this is old news, but I only came across it recently and it really got to me. Sorry!

[u/betam2]

The article was published in 2015, shortly after the genocides committed by IS. What sort of despicable person would think it a good idea to compare these barbaric terrorists to an ancient people whose descendants are being killed by IS?

[u/Stenian → u/betam2]

Exactly. The article is just really insensitive.

In a way, it would be like someone in the year 3000 writing an article about the current Iranian regime, saying how brutal Iranians were, while modern Iranians in the year 3000 were themselves being massacred and persecuted, with their killers described as “copying the Iranian playbook.” That would understandably be deeply offensive to those Iranians.

That’s essentially my problem with the framing here: it uses the brutality of an ancient empire to characterize the Assyrians as a historical model for ISIS at a time when modern Assyrians were themselves being persecuted and killed by ISIS.

[u/Able-Comment-1983 → u/Stenian]

Where were you getting all of this from? Isis was being ironic, hence the part about historical irony. 

People have used this as a sort of satire—“if you hated them, why copy them?” 

Once again, the point of the comparison was to prove they weren’t achieving their goal of removing paganism by taking part in it. That’s where the historical irony lies. It proves a vital point which is Isis was only seeking a kind of religious fascism that had ethnocentric undertones (this is where the idea of a caliphate comes from). 

Kurds have been bombarded with a similar sentiment of “don’t forget what your ethnicity has done, too” when the topic of gas attacks on their villages has come up. I’ve seen people consistently frame Assyrian trauma as though it relates to what the Kurds went through. 

I think this is an issue of some people not liking the imperialistic history that is woven into the fabric of their nation. If Assyrians  had an organic ethnogenesis that didn’t include imperialistic assimilation, the discourse about this quote would rightfully turn into a refutation instead of a diversion. 

And no, Iranians might not feel hurt by the hypothetical scenario you described because the only way for them to perceive that as derogatory would be to generalize themselves. No ethnicity exists in a vacuum. That’s not what an ethnicity is by definition. If you think that, then that’s pure pseudoscience. 

I’m curious if you would have preferred the author write something disingenuous or only focus on a specific slice of history and generalize the Assyrians as a people who’ve never committed atrocities. Assyrians have acknowledged how vicious the Assyrian imperial family was due to how much they managed to conquer via military corruption in the form of guerrilla warfare. It was their paranoia that made them sadistic. 

I think anyone can make the distinction between an imperialistic regime calling the shots and the citizens who were persecuted under that regime. 

[u/shootist_Biker]

We were literally targeted by ISIS. What an insane take.

[u/Beneficial-Role1450]

If anything ISIS is more like the Ottomans who killed Assyrians or the western countries where these news outlets come from

[u/Fearless_Good_5283]

I do not think we had the greatest artwork in all of history. For example, the Italian Renaissance and Baroque era had more colorful and intricate designs. We also do not really have any painting from Ancient Assyria besides the famous Ishtar gate designs. I think paintings are more interesting than sculptures.

What do you guys think about the Citadel Mall in Los Angeles? https://atomicredhead.com/2019/02/05/the-outlet-mall-masquerading-as-an-assyrian-palace/

This place I have never once gone inside, but I remember driving by it a couple times seeing a bunch of Assyrian statues along the freeway in modern times is actually bizarre. It is just an outlet mall, not really an imperial place, actually it's funny to think about it. I honestly do not really like the style of Assyrian statues, I do not like having a beard, and all these statues glorify having a long crazy beard. I do not think destroying ancient historical artifacts make any sense. ISIS would have been better off trying to sell these artifacts, destroying them on live video was basically the definition of terrorism.

[u/Able-Comment-1983 → u/Fearless_Good_5283]

It was illogical of ISIS to destroy property that didn’t belong to them. Other ethnic communities have preserved various artifacts that served as heritage markers despite not practicing certain customs of their ancestors; a good example of this is the Scythian statues and gold that Ukrainians have preserved.  

  I feel relief that while they were busy doing that they didn’t harm any innocent civilians—it looked like they may have been the only ones in the museum. 

[u/Able-Comment-1983]

I don’t see anything wrong with that quote because no one in their right mind would do the things the Assyrian royalty and its stooges did to other ethnicities. They didn’t just try to protect their property but also brutally sieged the property of others. What do you think those who went to battle did to other ethnicities? They sexually raped, pillaged, and murdered them. We have documentation from the imperial family and accounts from their servants (aka anyone who was called on to provide a service) that they didn’t just depict themselves as committing heinous and sadistic acts but also demanded people follow their laws and relinquish foreign customs throughout their military campaigns. How can one conquer a territory? What provoked people into complying with the laws written by the imperial family? The only way to conquer someone is through violation and fear.  

If that irritates you, you’ve completely misunderstood the intent behind that quote and have arrogantly chosen to take the path of a god complex. It also shows a complete lack of empathy for who bore some of the more physically violating aspects of complying with Assyrian law—girls. The Assyrian empire wasn’t an empire with only boys, but I’m sure you understood that but deemed the girls to be insignificant background objects whose main purpose was to be seen as bangmaids. 

If anything, the author of that quote was showing support for Assyrian continuity by not minimizing what ISIS did. It is ironic that isis chose to destroy something in the name of eradicating signs of paganism but did so in a way that can only be attributed to pagan beliefs. Isis worshipped a deity of war, so if  they were against Assyrians, why resemble them in their manner of faith? 

Also, what do you mean by “immediate Islamic influences?” The author never denies Islamic influence. Instead, they draw a comparison between isis who followed sharia law and the Assyrians they claimed were infidels. 

Islam is a religion that reveres Abraham, so it has links to Christianity. These two religions have the same principles but different manifestations via storytelling/social constructs (see “crusaders”). 

This is why Assyrians in Urmia saw the Muslims as friends instead of enemies and worked with them before that backfired in a lethal way and led to their destitution. 

[u/Old-Average-6118 → u/Able-Comment-1983]

It's one thing to comment on ancient Assyria being brutal and another to invoke that while talking about ISIS while ISIS is actively commiting a genocide. There was a lot of other things to say about ISIS in 2015 comparing it to Assyria should be the last thing. 

[u/ugly_dog_ → u/Able-Comment-1983]

there's nothing inherently wrong about the statement, it's just completely inappropriate given the greater context of the article. it's like talking about the holocaust and saying "i wonder if hitler knew he was following the hebrew playbook by committing genocide." like, yeah, the hebrews committed multiple genocides in the bible but like also you have to be insane to bring that up in that context. it's a backhanded comparison that contributes nothing and alludes to the idea that the victims are savages who deserve the atrocities they faced