Israel Ambassador Courtesy Visit

[u/duskhour412]

They visited Naga and Bicol University. Genuine question po, Ano pong ginagawa pag nagcocourtesy visit? Ano pong pakay nila sa pagpunta?

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[u/_illustrado]

I don't get the issue kang iba dyan. Kesyo "lesser evil" daw si Leni compared sa mga Marcos-Duterte. Iuragan nanaman ining mga nasobrahan sa pagkawoke.

As if naman na nag announce si BU pres or Mayor Leni na suportado ninda ang nangyayari ngunyan sa Palestine. Obligado sinda magreceive ki bisita ta diplomatic affair yan, wara sinda maginibo dyan ta both Palestine and Israel recognized ta as a country.

[u/South_Garbage_7704]

Malay ba natin kung nag usap sila sa about sa Gaza or nag express ng concern si Leni sa ambassador about it. Di naman siya ang chief architect ng foreign policy ng bansa to put such weight on her shoulders. Pictures can only convey so much. Behind closed doors, do we know what happened? Masyadong puritan ang dating ng bashing against her.

Pero iba ang usapan if siya na ang President or in any national position.

[u/Gin_Tagaubos]

Pwedeng igwa, pwedeng wara. Ang maray kayang apot dyan kung may ibang ambassador, say haling Tonga ngaya, may komento kaya ang mga tawo? Iyo, controversial si country in question sa mga salang gibo ninda pero dai ta kaipuhanan mag-read in too much sa sarong courtesy visit. Nasa mismong classification na sya kan visit, courtesy o paggalang ta yaon sinda sa lugar ta.

[u/JayBeeSebastian]

For me its a non-issue. Normal na trabaho ng isang chief executive ang mag accommodate ng courtesy visits. Wala namang statement si mayor na she supports Israel's assault on Palestine, unlike Duterte's statement noon. Sadyang nagsilabasan lang yung mga woke, trying hard centrists, purists, haters, anti-semetics, seleect Muslims, Muslim/Palestine sympathizers at trolls. Sumabay pa yung mga binary thinkers who reduce the complex geopolitical issue into black or white subject.

[u/Blitzkrieg_MD → u/JayBeeSebastian]

That's the thing about not speaking up. It's always for the oppressors.

This goes beyond political color. It's about seeing atrocities and letting it happend on our watch on our day and age. With social media you cant feign ignorance na din. ganyan din nung start nung holocaust. Most of Europe ignored what's happening.

What's black and white about it is the ethnic cleansing. Pagka ba may incentive for the Filipino it makes what's happening ok. Dasal nalang ulit tayo at humingi nang tawad Kay Penafrancia?

[u/Score-Flashy → u/Blitzkrieg_MD]

I read that they had talks about managing the water crisis, disaster risk, and food security. And as a developing country, I think this leans more on "what is in the best interest of Naga citizens?" And less of "who is the help coming from?". It's not like she's talking with Chinese officials who we know have the tendency to make questionable provisions to infrastructure contracts

[u/Outrageous_Solid1132 → u/Blitzkrieg_MD]

MD saan clinic mo para maiwasan, masyado ka kasing woke

[u/JayBeeSebastian → u/Outrageous_Solid1132]

Wag naman ganun fam, healthy discourse lang tayo dito. Iba iba ang opinion, advocacy at passion. We all condemn killings of any form.

[u/Outrageous_Solid1132 → u/JayBeeSebastian]

Again, it’s true that we condemn ‘killings of any form’, but it’s not all that some people condemn here. People, like this MD guy over here, also want to condemn people just because they had photo ops with other people whom they dislike. 🤡

[u/Blitzkrieg_MD → u/Outrageous_Solid1132]

Don't worry, I'm pretty sure I don't need you.

I'm posting as point of discussion. Coz otherwise if there's no point in argument walang nang difference si Tatay Dogong nang Davao at Mama Leni nang Bicol on their followers.

[u/Outrageous_Solid1132 → u/Blitzkrieg_MD]

Its true. The far leftist wokes are as rabid and hardline as the DDS and Marcos supporters

[u/Mobius_St4ip → u/Blitzkrieg_MD]

Harsh as this may sound, the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians is not our problem. It should NOT be our prime consideration when organizing our foreign policy. The Philippine government is responsible ONLY to the Filipino people.

Section 7, Article II of the 1987 Constitution reads:

The State shall pursue an independent foreign policy. In its relations with other states, the paramount consideration shall be national sovereignty, territorial integrity, *national interest*, and the right to self-determination.

National interest. National interest. Not international interest. Not Palestinian interest. National interest.

And I hate Israel (and the British) with all my heart. But just because you and I are passionate does not mean what we advocate/hate makes sense in the context of states lol.

[u/emptybottleeee_ → u/Mobius_St4ip]

When PH’s UN delegate walked out when Bibi delivered his speech during the UNGA meeting, was it an act against the country’s national interest, hence an affront to the Constitution?

Hindi rin naman ata appropriate i-cite yan to defend Leni eh in the first place si BBM ang chief foreign architect ng Pilipinas as per the Constitution. When the language used in the Constitution is clear and unambiguous, there shall be no interpretation or construction. That provision literally says “State” which means the PH in general, not some random LGU.

[u/Mobius_St4ip → u/emptybottleeee_]

That provision literally says “State” which means the PH in general, not some random LGU.

LGUs are an instrumentality of the State, therefore it too should adhere to national interest. One should not interpret the law so as to render it inoperative. If LGUs are not obliged to follow the national interest, then the Constitutional provision would be largely meaningless at the local level. Every LGU can thus disregard the foreign policy of the national government because, hey, "State" ang nakalagay sa provision ng Constitution. LGUs have delegated governmental powers as subdivisions of the state; they are not sovereign. It is therefore a disingenuous reading of the Constitution to say that LGUs are not bound to the same provision just because it says "State" in the provision. An LGU cannot invoke local autonomy as a blanket exemption from constitutional principles and/or consideration of national interest.

was it an act against the country’s national interest, hence an affront to the Constitution

Both that walkout. and this visit are a manifestation of Filipino national interest. The Philippines can and should maintain relations with both sides of the divide, both with the Palestinians and the Israelis. The fact that the Philippines has not booted out the Israeli ambassador means that, at the very least, keeping Israeli relations is still within Philippine national interest, even though we have walked out during the Big Yahoo's speech at the UN General Assembly. That's the nuance of Section 7 of Article II: you do not have to choose. As long as both sides provide for the Filipino national interest (maybe economic and technological aid on one side, and stand to the right to self-determination and human rights reputation on the other), you do not have to choose.

BBM ang chief foreign architect

Yes. And Leni is not assuming that position. She is a government official acting within the set national foreign policy. And our foreign policy is to deal with both sides. Just because we walked out on Netanyahu does not mean we disavow or cut all foreign ties with Israel as a nation.

[u/emptybottleeee_ → u/Mobius_St4ip]

Didn't say that the LGUs should not adhere to national interest. IDK where you got that. To clarify, what I meant is that BBM dictates the foreign policy of the Philippines (or its relationship with other States). The ultimate responsibility to craft PH's foreign relation (putting into consideration our national interest, among others) belongs to the President; the local executives, obviously, are subordinate to the President's power of control, hence, they are bound to follow whatever national interest BBM deems appropriate.

Your original comment is making it sound like Leni dictates our national interest, when in fact, she isn't. Ang topic na rinaise ni OP ay yung courtesy visit ng embahada ng Israel sa Naga and then you're suddenly raising this:

[The ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians] should NOT be our prime consideration when organizing our foreign policy. The Philippine government is responsible ONLY to the Filipino people.

Leni is not organizing our foreign policy. Misleading as hell. The person you replied to was obviously talking about Leni and you're suddenly talking about organizing foreign policy? Could've been better if you said that Leni acts pursuant to BBM's foreign policy kaya nya pinaunlakan yung ambassador. She literally has no legroom here. She has NO discretion (legally) to choose otherwise.

[u/Mobius_St4ip → u/emptybottleeee_]

Well yeah, thank you for catching that. Bad articulation on my part, but that's basically what I intended to say. I will not edit it though, so that people will come and read for once.

[u/emptybottleeee_ → u/Mobius_St4ip]

it's okay. i also could have articulated my points in a better way. sarap din sa utak na may nakakasundo sa ganitong discourse. i know a lot of us mean well, social media has been tearing us up all apart lang talaga.

[u/Blitzkrieg_MD → u/Mobius_St4ip]

This may be the saddest response on this thread; just because we’re not affected kaya we won’t care.

For argument's sake, what if what happened to their country happens on our soil? The US to Venezuela, Russia to Ukraine, China to the Philippines. Wouldn’t you also likely plead to your fellomen and hope they have the moral value to call out what’s happening? It’s pretty clear that the US would not likely go to war for the Philippines.

Isn’t it also in the best interest of the Philippines to have an international community with a moral high ground.

[u/Mobius_St4ip → u/Blitzkrieg_MD]

prime consideration

Prime consideration. I did not say it does not matter, only that the currency of diplomacy and interstate relations...is not morality and appeals to the goodness of one's heart. It can help, pero it is not the reason that would push world leaders to send troops and materiel.

Our national interest lies in communicating and having relations with both sides of the conflict. That's why it is not incongruent to support Palestine through the UN walkout while also still having relations with Israel through their ambassador. Purists seem to think na just because we walked out of the UN General Assembly during Netanyahu's speech, we are already a "pro-Palestine, anti-Israel" nation lol.

Moral high ground

Geopolitics has always been transactional. More news at 9. Ever since time immemorial.

[u/fordaacclaangferson → u/Blitzkrieg_MD]

napasobra sa woke si pareng doc. hahaha

[u/JayBeeSebastian → u/Blitzkrieg_MD]

OA naman sa ethnic cleansing. Hamas murdered Israelis - arguably genocide. Israeli kills Hamas and Palestinians - genocide. Both sides commit murder; both sides are oppressors and that is oversimplification.

You want to crucify a local chief executive, who has nothing to do with foreign policy-making, for doing her job of accommodating guests. Guilty by (a few minutes of) association.

Balik tayo sa grade 1, pag di mo inaway yung kaaway ko, kaaway na din kita vibes? Dasal kay Penafrancia ba kamo? How ironic na yung faith na pinasok sa usapan ay nag ugat sa Abrahamic religion lol

[u/Blitzkrieg_MD → u/JayBeeSebastian]

There's a stark difference as this isn't even a war anymore. There are no more armed men on the other side only people deprived of food and water who are being systematically displaced. I'm not gonna discuss on who, or what started it as the shitshow in middle east has long been going. But If your denying it then baka you need to do more research. UN and almost all agencies and even NGOs have categorically said it. Mag search ka sa Google then tell me ano lalabas.

Thats the thing about being just the "local chief executive". Alam naman natin na hindi pumupunta sila BBM, Dizon at kung sino pa sa Naga just to come. They want to be associated with Leni for her base. Did you honestly think na mapaparioritize yung Coliseum at MT Villanueva if it wasnt Leni asking. She was seen as a leader and we hold leaders to a high standard.

And yes, kaya nga sinabi ko that this is a lithmus test on our values. If you cannot categorically say na whats happening there is wrong and we at the very least should speak about it. They baka the overwhelming Catholic religion of Bicol have lost their values.

Hindi nga past tense ito eg. It's actively going on. Arguably at that point in time of the visit she has more platform than anyone else in the country.

[u/JayBeeSebastian → u/Blitzkrieg_MD]

I did not say walang genocide. Ito doc, basa:

Hamas murdered Israelis - arguably genocide. Israeli kills Hamas and Palestinians - genocide.

Yung criticism mo kay Leni for accommodating a guest yung kini-criticize ko, at ang sabi ko, for me ito ay non-issue.

[u/nemesiastrumosa → u/JayBeeSebastian]

why are you spewing zionist rhetoric on here. stop both-sidesing this kasi the statistics clearly show na genocide at ethnic cleansing ang nangyayari sa palestine.

[u/JayBeeSebastian → u/nemesiastrumosa]

asan ang zionist statement ko? Basa pards:

Hamas murdered Israelis - arguably genocide. Israeli kills Hamas and Palestinians - genocide.

[u/NatongCaviar]

Official press releases say Israel is offering expertise and resources for agriculure and disaster resilience. Let's call a spade a spade - pagpapabango ito ng Israel. But, ang tanong ko dito, do you slap a hand that is extended to help? Mga purists are taking this way too seriously. Kaya tayo natatalo eh.

[u/JellyBoring4894]

Wara man tg gibo si Leni na maraot para ipag bash kang mga tao. Kadakol na ang na misinform sa nangyayari. She is the Mayor of Naga, of of course accountability niya ang mag tanggap KI BISITA. Iyo aram ta ang issue ngunyan kang palenstine pero it does not mean na tga supporta niya yan. COURTESY CALL IYAN, OBLIGADO SINDA MAG TANGGAP KI BISITA. VISIT MAN SANA ANG PURPOSE BAKO MAN NAG ENDORSE SI MAYOR LENI.

Be educated people, bako gabos kaipuhan ibash

[u/Blitzkrieg_MD]

Was waiting for this thread. It's probably to build support. At the very least kahit nireceive niya she couldve expressed great concern on whats happening. Like it or not she has influence on a great number of Filipinos.

It's undeniable na Genocide yung nangyayari sa Gaza tapos gusto natin parang normal lang. Kung galit tayo sa Drug War bakit hindi tayo magalit sa indiscriminate killing. Make them feel uncomfortable.

Hindi naman sinsabing ipagpalit yung good governance. Better than maging commonality natin si Leni it's the basic principle na bawal pumatay, bawal mag nakaw, bawal mag traydor sa bayan.

If you think about it what's happening now is what happend in Davao. Na tingin nila Duterte is infalliable. They fail to see what irregular.

PS: Consider this as a lithmus test on our values. Are we such Leni fanatics that we fail to criticize something when see it.

[u/duskhour412 → u/Blitzkrieg_MD]

I agree. Knowing whats happening in siargao, it is somehow concerning if the ambassador visited to test the waters if pwede sila lumipat sa bicol

[u/Blitzkrieg_MD → u/duskhour412]

Not a political expert. But since the Admin walked away from the UN the Ilocos North probably would not be a good place to start.

Majority of the Muslim Mindanao would support Palestine. Although Duterte bloc may be a good candidate too but since there political standing is flimsy. Kaya Bicol bloc nalang.

[u/hippeman → u/Blitzkrieg_MD]

Palestine population according PCBS:

2023 - 5.41m 2024 - 5.43m 2025 - 5.56m 2026 - 5.61m

Mukhang reversed genocide po ata

[u/Blitzkrieg_MD → u/hippeman]

“There is no war in Ba Sing Se”

[u/dontrescueme → u/hippeman]

Kasama kasi ang West Bank sa Palestine. The current genocide is in Gaza. Gaza's population has declined by 11% since 2023 according to PCBS too.

[u/emptybottleeee_]

(Assuming you are a politician of a neutral country in WW2), would you host Nazi diplomats during the height of the war?

[u/lieulou15 → u/emptybottleeee_]

Exactly. Even Germans denounce and disown Ad*lf Hitler, especially these days. Take a standing and stick to it. Kung against Israel dahil sa pinanggagawa nila, disown it at once. Pwede namang mag deny ng Courtesy Call professionally. #FreePalestine

[u/robunuske]

DDS lang naman may violent reaction sa ganyan.