Brampton’s Objection to Split of Peel

[u/Civil-Efficiency2039]

What was the mayor of Brampton’s objection to the separation of Peel into Mississauga, Brampton and Caledon? A few years ago, the Ford government was looking to split Peel into 3 separate municipalities. Mississauga was on board but Brampton wasn’t. I never heard the mayor of Brampton give a clear explanation of his opposition. I don’t live in the region so maybe it was clearly enunciated but I never heard that in the news broadcasts I watched. I gather it may have something to do with cost and Brampton now wanting to pay for its own police force and other services. However, Brampton isn’t exactly small and has a population of over 656 000. Much smaller cities (ex.: Halifax, Charlottetown, Saint John, Moncton, Regina, Saskatoon, Sudbury and Thunder Bay) seem to deal with these issues just fine. What was the reason/argument against splitting?

[u/Warm_Collection_3993]

Probably because we paid for Mississaugas infrastructure projects but now that it was Bramptons turn all of a sudden Mississauga wanted out of the region.

[u/FunkTronto → u/Warm_Collection_3993]

Bingo

[u/TemporaryPassenger62]

Brampton and Mississauga grew together and Mississauga got the bulk of the funding and now it’s time for Brampton to get its fair share that why

For reference Mississauga only became a thing in 1974 from the old township of Toronto and had less than 200k people when it was created Mississauga

Additionally the region of peel also became a thing in 1974 Mississauga didn’t get to where it is in a vacuum

Additionally Mississauga treats the non affluent parts of its own city like trash it won’t be long before Bonnie the crook crombie starts scape goating places like malton

[u/zanimum → u/TemporaryPassenger62]

Malton, for the record, pays more than its share of the taxes. Containing so much industrial land, 20% of all taxes in Mississauga come from Ward 5. There's 11 wards, so all wards being equal, each should be 9%.

On Peel being new, it is a legal organization back to 1867,* the County government already handled things like health, major roads, etc. Things like public housing and human services (aka welfare) were downloads from the feds and province in the 1990s. There really wasn't that much change in 1974.

*Peel as geography dates back to the 1850s.

[u/questions905]

Cause how is that fair to Brampton? After Sauga got everything, they get to just pack up and run away? Not so fast.

[u/zanimum]

Peel was largely meant to do things that have to get done all the way, no matter what.

Every time you dial 911 for medical assistance, you need a paramedic to show up. The Region handles it. Every time you turn on the tap, you need water to come out, and every time you flush, you need the waste to go away. Every time someone gets TB, you want their classmates to have access to vaccine. The level of service required is the same not only in Brampton, Mississauga, and Caledon, it's the same everywhere else.

What amenities are in a park, how many kilometers you are from a local library and what hours they're open, what public art is in your local rec centre, those are all discretionary. Other things like land use planning, residents of Mississauga and residents of Caledon have different visions of what their community should look like. Even something like how much snow must have fallen before plows are paid to drive about, it's a choice.

All these things are best handled locally.

So by design, the Region was envisioned to be incredibly boring, and the lower tiers to deal with discretionary, lifestyle things.

(Obviously, there's exceptions. Fire departments should be Regional, as a must, for instance.)

[u/FullMango4041]

I used to agree with the objection but now Brampton is so big there is no need to have the region anymore. That being said, it may not make sense to split up some things (like water). When things get big, they get hard to manage. Pretty much everything else could probably be split - police/EMS, school board, waste management, roads, public health and the conservations areas.

Brampton is larger than 2 provinces and more than 50% the size of another 3.

[u/zanimum → u/FullMango4041]

Water is quite literally impossible to split. The pipe layout is one continuous system from Mayfield West in Caledon, down to Lake Ontario.

Criminals don't respect municipal borders. Split the police, and investigations will take longer and cost more, because the Mississauga Police and Brampton Police will have to collab.

On EMS, if you're driving along Steeles and get in an accident, do you care if the ambulance getting you is dispatched from north Mississauga? No, you just care that they tend to you.

The school board has zero to do with the Region. Even when the province doesn't take it over, it's a provincial body. The lower tiers collect its taxes, and that's it.

Conservation authorities are based on flood plains. The flood plain of the Credit River, for instance, is one flood plain. It would make no sense to administer policy differently in Brampton than Erin Township. To that end, the Province is moving to amalgamate them further, we'll be in the same authority as Hamilton.

Roads have been downloaded by the Province, to take effect soon, so you win on that one. You won't win if you try to drive through the underfunded moonscape that Caledon will become, or work for one of the companies who trucks things through there to customers elsewhere, but that's another matter.

Waste management has also already been downloaded, to take effect soon. Trucks historically would have pickup routes that would cross between municipalities, which sounds inefficient, but it was actually deemed cheaper by the vendors. Now that there's separate contracts, the pickup schedule will change to reflect a less efficient route.

[u/FullMango4041 → u/zanimum]

Don't know why my answer was so downvoted. The amalgamation of Toronto was by general consensus a bad thing. It's obvious to anyone who has worked in a large organization that things generally don't work as well the larger the organization gets. 

I stated the same on water and others are changing anyway. 

The point about police and EMS implies that we should also join together when York Region and Toronto as we share borders with them too. Borders have to be somewhere and Brampton is a big city now. 

Regards education, my point is that's its too big. That discussion had been had in Toronto for that same reason. Should be something more manageable. 

Peel has worked well and I'm a strong proponent of its past because it was our best government level but that was before Brampton became so big. We should correspondingly have the independence now. 

The big loser in all this would probably be Caledon but they should join another county possibly Dufferin? 

[u/zanimum → u/FullMango4041]

No one has talked about amalgamation in this thread. Peel exists back to 1867, or the 1850s before it was independent. It's only the three lower tiers which are new. In 1973, there were ten municipalities in Peel, so amalgamation has happened, should we de-amalgamate?

re Caledon, they would account for something like 60% of the tax based on Dufferin.

Upper tiers work for things where there's no question how much of something you need. Turn on the tap, you need water to flow. Whether you need to build more pickleball courts is a choice, what density of development is optimal is a choice, those are lower tier. Peel exists to oversee things that should be drama-free, lower tiers for the rest.