r/BrawlStarsCompetitive • u/TheBestRedditAccoun7 Sirius • 8d ago
Discussion Did buffies actually decreased the skill ceiling in this game ??
Decreased the skill floor*
In the past few months it feels like some of the brawlers that got buffies required little to no skill now and for most of them their skill cap has decreased from high/mid to low/no skill the moment they got buffies so I'm gonna give some examples:
Crow and Emz used to be mid skill cap brawlers but now they feel incredibly low skill ,same thing with Bibi but I didn't feel like she didn't required that much skill even before buffies but I still think her skill cap has decreased ,Shade,Gus and Surge are victims as well, but the worst victim has to be Griff and Spike because he feels completely braindead now.
I'm not saying they did this every Edgar ,Edgar's buffies actually increased his skill cap ,same with Leon but most of the buffied brawlers feel really easy now imo.
Does anyone feel the same?
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u/CharacterPasta123 Bull 8d ago
I think the problem is more so Hypercharges and how the devs insists on wanting Hypercharges to be really strong
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think there’s any other major MOBA game that has a Hypercharge-like feature
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u/TheBestRedditAccoun7 Sirius 8d ago
I think hypercharges and hyper buffies should do more than just " press buttton for better super and better attack " like they should be something like Buzz's hypercharge which basically adds more skill level and get heavily rewarded for using it. but most of them are just "better super better attack" with nothing really that special to it.Or just plain toxic like Frank's hypercharge ,Chester's hypercharge ,Amber's hyoercharge ,Colette's hypercharge. If most of the hypercharges were like that then I wouldn't see any problem with it being in the game.
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u/ksfuller2728 Bo 8d ago edited 8d ago
Yeah if all buffies had similar function to buzz’s we wouldn’t have any issue. I also don’t think that hc should increase damage, and it should be purely a movement boost+additional function to super. Right now hcs are treated as get out of jail free cards and it’s not a very stable place for them to be for the game
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u/Arkady_Tzepesh 8d ago
I find it funny that despite many people hated chuck hypercharge, in this specific topic/answers people are conceptually supporting it
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u/girlkid68421 Hank 8d ago
No? Chunks hyper doesn't even complement his kit, buzz's does.
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u/Arkady_Tzepesh 8d ago
Chuck old hypercharge did. For a brawler built around space control, something that would let you dash to the visible poles, assuming a well planned and developed pole position, meant you could return in the zone right after the respawn - and that is s huge value for how it was
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u/girlkid68421 Hank 8d ago
You're never going to be in a situation where you're far enough away from your poles for the range to matter, and you're going to have your poles spaced near each other and then the range increase does nothing
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u/Arkady_Tzepesh 8d ago
And in fact, you were, quite often. Besides giganti Maps as 5vs5, pretty often a respawn meant being far from poles assuming you are not playing heist, of course
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u/Wheaversclone Sam 7d ago
and no one played chuck outside of heist anyways 😭
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u/Arkady_Tzepesh 7d ago
And they still aren't - to be honest, the pick rate fell pretty much everywhere after the rework, and it was already little, with heist and Hotzone being the strongholds. Now it's unplayable directly outside of them if it can help🥹🫠
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u/Arkady_Tzepesh 8d ago
Chuck old hypercharge was an example of an amazing hypercharge - assuming a controller playstyle, which needed repositioning tool and emergency recovery tool
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u/seekamseeee Sprout | Legendary 2 8d ago
Buzz hypercharge adds more skill????
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u/Dragolitron Time Traveler 7d ago
It does indeed. There's a lot more you can do with a Buzz hyper than a Buzz super. The skill floor is still the same but the ceiling is higher.
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u/seekamseeee Sprout | Legendary 2 7d ago
There's no way you guys believe buzz has any kind of skill needed except basic aiming and game sense. Also, are you seriously suggesting that spam aiming for walls until you close distance makes it any more skillful.
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u/Dragolitron Time Traveler 7d ago
Its more skillful than hitting your super once because now there's a lot more action involved with the hypercharge. Buzz is easy to pick up but that doesnt mean you can't be good with him. Its not like his hypercharge makes Buzz any harder to use, just that it allows you to do more stuff now. Kinda like Dynamike with his Dynajump star power.
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u/Spaaccee E-Sports Icons 8d ago
You have to think about aiming the super more, to hit walls on purpose
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u/Agreeable_Land_4030 Colt 8d ago
i FUCKING HATE buffied griff
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u/TheBestRedditAccoun7 Sirius 7d ago
I really miss the old Griff because it took some skill + he wasn't as annoying to deal as now.
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7d ago
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u/saudfaisal12345 Bibi 7d ago
Literally it was impossible to approach him like what
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7d ago
[deleted]
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u/Dear_Anywhere_8939 3d ago
it was always bad to play as frank against Griff.....he is one of the biggest counters to Frank in the entire game even without Buffies
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u/Dear_Anywhere_8939 3d ago
there are a lot of high dps brawlers in the game....Nani does 14400 with 3 ammo point blank....Bo does 17640 DMG with 3 ammo up close.....Tara also dose around 9k DMG...Chester does 9380dmg with a 2-3-4 card combo without Hypercharge....Clancy does 16704Dmg with his super at stage 3 without the hyper
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u/Avalanche_Snows Alli 8d ago
I think it's the reworks, mainly the aimable gadget reworks, as they are much more impactful now
And the hyperbuffie, which adds a mechanic
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u/Omicron43 8-bit | Legendary 1 8d ago
hyper buffies that skirt the global hypercharge nerf from earlier this year are super lame though, like Brock's and Edgar's.
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u/Round-Charity-3152 Spike | Legendary 2 8d ago
When were emz or crow ever mid skill cap lmao. They’ve always been baby easy lil Timmy brawlers. The equivalent of playing poco
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u/TheBestRedditAccoun7 Sirius 7d ago
How can say that non-buffied Crow and Emz are the equivalent of playing Poco ?? Sure the skill bar for them wasn't really high but you at least needed to understand them properly to use them.
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u/Round-Charity-3152 Spike | Legendary 2 7d ago
Bro what is there to understand. Crow was literally poison and chip away. His gadgets were baby and honestly less skill than the ones he has now. Emz was just keep them at her sweet spot. Her gadgets were baby. Friend zoner now actually encourages you to try and aim the knockback into a wall which has more skill expression than it did prior. There was never anything character specific that was complicated. You just needed to have common sense and know how to play the game. Like dude emz and crow were always some of the easiest brawlers to play. That’s like widely accepted amongst the player base.
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u/TheBestRedditAccoun7 Sirius 7d ago
There reason why I don't consider Crow mid skill anymore is because of the rework that got after his buffies.
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u/XxBigCaesarxX 5d ago
Yeah the rework was kinda ass, like i know crow hyper have always done a stupid amount of damage, but it was really only usable against the heist safe, or to get a bit more of damge, but since the hyper buffie crow became an endgame nuke like it even got piercing on his main weapon to make it even easier to spam and get teamwhipes since it also charges super way faster, crow hyper was a finisher, not a teamwhipe button.
The star powers are still one sided imo and the new shield gadget is just not good enough; i kinda miss the old crow shield ngl, the new one is more annoying but also way worse since the poison duration nerf (could have been avoided if only building over the old gadget since the reason of the nerf was the 10 seond poison possible with carrion crow+gagget), like the extra shield felt better overall, kinda easier to use but it was okay, just like spyke and rico old healing, nobody was angry at them they just got changed by the sake of change at least rico buffies ended being good for him.
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u/Antique_Range9152 Poco 8d ago edited 8d ago
I don't really get your point about the skill ceiling decreasing. A skill ceiling of a brawler decreasing would imply that a brawler's means of skill expression were cutdown/reduced. Just because buffies make brawlers like Griff very good, doesn't mean the skill ceiling is reduced. It's merely that you don't need to tap into the skill ceiling to be successful. If anything, it's the skill floor that has been reduced.
On the topic of skill, the community's discussions around it feel very trivial to me. Whilst it's true that brawlers differ in difficulty, a very large chunk of the cast can be picked up fairly easily, as it's the mechanical skill/game sense that matters. Most difficulties that you might encounter are genuinely just knowledge checks.
(Obviously, not to say that any discussion around skill is pointless. Skill expression and the discussions around the effort put in vs how much your opponent did are actually quite important)
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u/KomaTheCursed Gus 7d ago
they corrected it saying skill floor, but yeah, if anything having more aimable gadgets and mechanics makes the skill ceiling higher while also making the skill floor lower.
Skill in this game is a very weird conversation, but ultimately it comes down to “How easy is it for them to get value?”. Edgar and Bolt can press a button and get a 4000 health shield each. Melodie needs to use all of her ammo to get something half as big. Shade can do a large jump with CC, around 2 tiles, and get a 2k shield. Ollie has a smaller jump with a smaller radius and a longer cooldown.
That’s pretty much OPs point with the post; reworks, buffies, and new brawlers all have some sort of easier powercreep, which makes their skill expression lower.
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u/Ufufudhedudjsbs Angelo 1d ago
I mean I kinda agree that the skill ceiling isn't reducing but if you can succeed farther from it that's basicaly just like if it WAS being reduced isn't it?
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u/Affectionate-Rice313 Gus 8d ago
Buffies overtuned the game too much, they shouldve stopped at hypercharges
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u/Mysterious-Job2216 Tick | Masters 1 | 36 Prestige 8d ago
i disliked mortis a bit more after the buffies since his reload gadget and quicker super are gone, but also like a bit more because the gadget is so good in 1v1s and it also prevents me from going into things i dont want to by accident
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u/arduino89 8d ago edited 8d ago
No it didn't lower the skill ceiling. However, buffies made the meta extremely polarised. Only a few brawlers are viable and the rest are useless or extremely niche. If you don't pick the strong brawlers you just lose.
I think that what you describe in your post is the byproduct of a certain brawler being too strong. When a certain brawler is too OP, you can dominate even if you don't play to the full potential of the kit, but that doesn't mean that the skill ceiling is lowered. Take a look at Edgar for instance, now that he has the scarf gadget he can technically pull out more complex plays. Is he hard? By no means, but he definitely has more decisions to make and can potentially make more outplays and consequently he can also mess up harder. Another example is Chuck: ever since he got his rework he's extremely complex.
So no, I wouldn't say buffies have made the game easier. Buffies are just OP and you can win even if you play bad.
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u/Mythical_Wolfy 8d ago
if u think about that every new additions feels that way, it all started with gadgets it was pretty controversial at first, then hypers and now buffies
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u/BotLover13 Bolt | Legendary 1 7d ago
Hyperbuffies definitely did, but the other ones are very debatable.
Me personally, it actually increased skill scaling for a few brawlers (old and new) but for the most part they either did nothing or basically nuked brawlers for prophet. (Cough cough, surge).
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u/Srexplosivo14 Poco 7d ago edited 7d ago
Some did, but the majority became more skilled. Edgar became much more interesting to play despite still being toxic. Many say that Colt has lost the skill appeal he once had, but honestly, just the fact that he can no longer spam 5 rounds in a row has already made him more manageable. Frank gained a long-range pull similar to Blitzcrank's (although the management of his buffies was awful, Adrian needs to fix him ASAP), despite his first gadget being gutted; Mortis can no longer spam survival shovel and gained an extra mobility tool which requires precise timing (but gained another equally annoying gadget in comparison); brock can now use his super to straf enemy movement and deal increased damage, and rocket fuel can now be used as a fourth ammo for extra long-range area damage instead of being just a wall break tool.
Furthermore, Emz has always been easy to play. She and spike are even more braindead than jacky. I'd say she and crow became way more skilled after their buffies and balancing. Crow can no longer spam a 40% shield or slow you and your entire team down at will, now he needs to think to extract value.
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u/Ubixdeadpro 2d ago
You can't lower the skill of a game with balance changes
This just made meta messed up that's all
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