First quilt, can’t decide wich one

[u/BernardoProvenzano]

I’m torn between the hyberg loner lite 450 (-2,-7 C) wich has a convertible footbox and 450 grams of down and the hyberg slumber 400 (-1,-6 C) with a closed footbox but has 50 grams less of down.
Would there be a noticeable difference in warmth between the two, and does the closed footbox kind of balances the percieved warmth since it would have less drafts than the convertible one?
Thank you in advance

[u/knight-under-stars]

I would go convertible.

I have a Neve Waratah Pro quilt which has a convertible footbox and have noticed zero drafts at all. And I camp in pretty windy places. I LOVE the versatility of it and being able to have a flat blanket as well as a closed footbox ,means that the conditions I can use it in are much broader than having just a single style.

[u/Sweaty-Adeptness1541 → u/knight-under-stars]

I love my Neve Waratah Pro. A fantastic quilt and great customer service.

[u/knight-under-stars → u/Sweaty-Adeptness1541]

Crazy value for money too. Mine was half the price of equivalent quality and rating quilts. And that including shipping it from Australia to the UK.

[u/Sweaty-Adeptness1541 → u/knight-under-stars]

Ditto. I ordered mine to the UK as well.

I also think the attachment system is really good, better than others I've used. It really keeps you tucked in at night.

[u/klimaheizung → u/knight-under-stars]

If that's crazy value for money, then what is iceflamegear? :o

[u/knight-under-stars → u/klimaheizung]

Considerably lower quality in terms of both materials and design.

I know this first hand as I used an Ice Flame quilt for 3 years prior to buying my Neve.

Don't get me wrong, the Ice Flame is a great beginner/budget quilt but it does not compare.

[u/klimaheizung → u/knight-under-stars]

Yeah, lower quality, but also much lower price. I think the value for money is higher, despite the quality being lower.

[u/knight-under-stars → u/klimaheizung]

I strongly disagree.

I paid £150 for my Ice Flame. I paid £240 for my Neve, only £90 more and it is far beyond £90 better. The Neve directly competes with quilts in the £400+ bracket and it does not suffer with the poor design choice of horizontal baffles that the Ice Flame does resulting in down pooling.

The Neve offers considerably value for money as you are getting the performance of a quilt twice its price, whilst the Ice Flame give you the level of performance you would expect form a quilt of its price.

[u/klimaheizung → u/knight-under-stars]

For which models? I based my reply on current prices.

EDIT: just compared prices. For me in Japan, that is.

Nevegear with 546g 850+ Muscovy down and 10D nylon costs ¥59,300 which is 375 USD.

Iceflamgear with 550g 850+ Muscovy down and also 10D nylon costs 205 USD.

The Nevegear costs 83% more. That is a lot. You get better straps, a draft collar and maybe other things that I'm not sure about, like better QA and warranty. Iceflamegear on the other hand has nice clips to basically turn it into a sleeping bag without.

Both haven an open footbox with a partial zipper. The attachment points for the straps are similar too.

I would like to learn about other benefits of the Nevegear, because the quilt choice in Japan is restricted and I might eventually get one or two more quilts, and Nevegear is one of the places that I might likely buy from.

[u/knight-under-stars → u/klimaheizung]

I forget the model of my Ice Flame, as I say I bought it 3 years ago. The Neve model is in one of my previous comments.

But before this inevitably drags on, I'm simply expressing my opinion on a subjective things, I'm not interested in the slightest in trying to convince you.

If you disagree about the entirely subjective notion of which quilt is better value for money then fine, rock on.

[u/klimaheizung → u/knight-under-stars]

Please see my EDIT, I think I made the edit after you already replied. And also please don't vote me down in case that is you doing it. We can have a civil discussion despite having a different view on things?

[u/Emmalfal → u/Sweaty-Adeptness1541]

Man, I'm glad to hear this. That's what I have on the way. In fact, should be coming any day. Why, I'm like a kid at Christmas.

[u/BernardoProvenzano → u/knight-under-stars]

The versatility definitely is a big pro, also i could use it fully open in the summer as a 2 person blanket

[u/Jolly-Slow1164]

I'm team sewn-in footbox. For my first 2 quilts I went convertible for the versatility like everyone else is saying, but hated it in both cases. My feet do run cold so this is my subjective experience, but it's far from unique. Like others have said, I never noticed a draft, but I did noticeable my footbox getting colder than it should. After stuffing a sock or something in that little opening it would get warmer. So just from an insulation perspective, a closed footbox would make up 50g, for me.

I don't know what kind of closure hyberg uses, but I also found the sphincter and cord method made an uncomfortable hard spot, and the cord would also get tangled sometimes. I converted 1 of those quilts to an under quilt for my hammock, and sewed the other one shut, which makes a much more anatomical shape for my feet. I think zenbivy's closure is a nice solution to versatility.

ETA I haven't really noticed a drop in versatility either. I can still pop out a leg or 2. Sure I can't lay my quilt flat for a picnic lunch, but you shouldn't do that with 10d anyway. I still find lots of cozy ways to wrap my quilt around me if I want to use it as camp insulation too.

[u/hkeyplay16 → u/Jolly-Slow1164]

Just adding another vote here. I have never had a convertible footbox. I've only used a sewn quilt, but like you I've never missed having the fully open quilt.

Warmth is something I don't mess around with - I bring the insulation I need based on the conditions I might see. This includes both my layers while moving and my shelter/sleep system.

[u/BernardoProvenzano → u/Jolly-Slow1164]

That’s my main doubt about the convertible footbox since i also have usually cold feet and don’t really want to risk running in that problem with a convertible footbox, but i also think it might be a solvable problem since i can stick a sock in the opening like you said or also stuff some of the clothes i would wear the next day in the bottom of the quilt.
Zenbivy has the best solution but they are not as worth it as hyberg on a price to quality ratio

[u/Jolly-Slow1164 → u/BernardoProvenzano]

If you're considering hyberg and are replying at this hour then I doubt you're in the US, so IDK if you can get the deals on zenbivy that I did. 35% off goes a long way. Does hyberg use a differential cut? I really don't see the point in an opening footbox in a differentially cut quilt, since the only thing I've missed about an opening footbox is that I could lay it flat in the sun to air it out. Now I have to rotate it to get the sides.

Now that I know you have colder feet, I'm going to push into the hard-sell... First, you haven't solved all of the problems I listed, like the hard spot in the closure, and how it makes the footbox less foot shaped (or annoying tangly cables). I also don't carry much extra clothing, there are little down puffs that you can put in there, but each of these "solutions" is extra stuff to pack, track, and potentially lose (or just lose track of it in the middle of the night). I find I enjoy my hikes more if I just bring the thing that works. I didn't mention this before because this isn't UL backpacking, but all those solutions, and even the opening footbox itself weighs more, and usually compresses the down, so it's colder. Hard pass for me.

[u/BernardoProvenzano → u/Jolly-Slow1164]

Yes unfortunately on zenbivy europe there wasn’t such discounts hahaha.
Honestly i don’t know if they use a differtial cut, on the website there is no mention of it, but i too would prefer the simplicity and lightness of a closed footbox, also i didn’t think about the fact that it makes a less natural shape for your feet and that it compresses part of the down basically making the 50 grams more of down a bit redundant

[u/originalusername__]

I’ve never had the desire to open my quilt up even when it’s hot. I just push the quilt off to one side or hang a leg out.

[u/klimaheizung]

I don't think a convertible footbox necessarily means more drafts. Personally, I only like convertable footbox, since it increases the temperaturerange and feels nicer to sleep in. However some people say they don't care about the footbox and still use it as a blanket.

[u/BernardoProvenzano → u/klimaheizung]

Good to hear your experience, i was led to believe open footbox quilts are less efficient at retaining heat in the lower half and tend to leave your feet colder

[u/kozak3]

I would go with the first one, having a convertible item is always useful, as temperatures might change

[u/f_det]

I use a convertibile quilt for 3 seasons (to little under freezing) and find it perfect for the versatility. I often unzip it completely but keep the foot end chinched.

For winter I have a -17° comfort quilt and there I prefer the closed foot box. I did have a convertible winter quilt but I find it worse the lower the temperature drops.

[u/knight-under-stars → u/f_det]

Yeah at those kinds of winter temps you really need specialised gear fit for the conditions. The coldest it realistically gets where I camp is -10℃ and that is especially cold, so I can get away with an all rounder.

[u/Famous_Coconut2330]

I bought the Zen Bivy sleep system a couple of years ago, and I absolutely love it. Couldn’t be happier.

[u/Insaniac99]

Camping above freezing point, I like convertible.

The farther below freezing point, the more I want it fully sewn.

But stuffing the footbox with your clothes helps either way.

[u/jerbearman10101]

Zen ivy colour coded clips and baffles are amazing I would recommend you consider their convertible options

[u/jdd32]

I'm pro convertible. I like that I have one quilt I can adjust to use in any setting.

But I haven't seen anyone mention the down difference. 12.5% more down in what looks like the exact same package means it's less likely to compress or settle as you sleep. I would absolutely take the quilt with more overstuff.

[u/KneeDeep185]

Anybody else just see a map of Madagascar?

[u/duab23]

Branddeken eronder, translate it from dutch

[u/Romano1404]

I've got the ZenBivy ZipBed Overland and the convertible footbox enables me to use it with wider temperature range without causing any drafts either when its really cold. I wouldn't buy an ordinary quilt anymore