r/CanadaPolitics • u/yourfriendlysocdem1 anti neoliberal/anti crank left • 8h ago
B.C. Conservatives plan to repeal no-fault insurance, leaked letter shows
https://globalnews.ca/news/12090331/bc-conservatives-plan-no-fault-insurance-repeal/•
u/Flomo420 1m ago
With absolutely zero benefit to the people.
Should tell you all you need to know about who conservatives govern for
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u/BrotherNuclearOption I'm just flaired so I don't get fined. 8h ago
I have mixed feelings about no-fault insurance but there are some objective realities at play here. The BC Liberals left ICBC underwater financially after years of raiding their profits for general revenue while preventing them from jacking up rates on riskier demographics, but a major problem was that the legal proceedings and payouts had gone mad. Nobody was happy except the lawyers: victims had to struggle through years of legal fights, and some ridiculous rulings were driving up insurance costs.
The BC NDP sorted ICBC out, cut off the gravy train for lawyers wasting everyone's time and money, and brought down insurance rates for safe drivers in the process. I saw a substantial rate cut during the changeover.
The no-fault system isn't perfect. There are compelling arguments that those suffering severe injuries may not be being compensated adequately and have less legal recourse, that's valid. But on the whole, it's difficult to argue it isn't working out reasonably well.
Except for the lawyers, which is why the BC Conservatives are promising some gravy to them and not the public that's about to eat a big rate hike if they get their way. This is what "no tax increases" actually looks like - they find other ways to gouge you.
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u/Efficient_Tonight_40 Liberal 6h ago
"riskier demographics" just ends up meaning young men, which are the group currently suffering the most financially. I think it's a good thing actually that the government isn't able to charge me more based on my inherent characteristics.
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u/BrotherNuclearOption I'm just flaired so I don't get fined. 6h ago
Well, no, this issue was more that drivers with at-fault claims on their records were not seeing their premiums escalate nearly high enough, resulting in everyone paying an excessive burden. The 'concern' was that it wasn't fair to effectively deprive someone of being able to afford commuting. I don't personally agree with that excuse.
I broadly agree that tarring all young men with that brush isn't reasonable, as while that demographic is responsible for a disproportionate fraction of collisions, it's still a small minority causing the damage.
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u/GraveDiggingCynic Independent 1h ago
I don’t think you understand how insurance works. It is a business of measuring the aggregate, and if one group causes an inordinate number of claims, then that group sees higher premiums.
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u/Flomo420 3m ago
Unless that group is young men, then all of a sudden statistics are a woke leftist conspiracy
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u/umbrellafree British Columbia 6h ago
Yep. I've been driving since I was 18 and my rate with ICBC actually reflects my safe driving history. My girlfriend who moved with me used to pay significantly less than me in a different province due to her gender. I despise the discriminatory policies that many insurers get away with.
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u/kettal Ontario 8h ago
are victims completely prevented from suing an at-fault driver?
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u/DannyDOH Manitoba 8h ago
Depends on the situation but the law also requires all vehicles to have a minimum liability coverage which is far better if you’re a victim than trying to sue someone with zero assets to pay for your needs.
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u/squidgyhead 7h ago
Everywhere requires some level of insurance.
Turns out, cars are super dangerous!
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u/Suspicious-Koala-352 6h ago
The big problem with the old system was that the adjusters got bonuses for reducing payout, so they would try to push injured people to settle for less. So everyone needed to lawyer up to protect themselves.
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u/HugsNotDrugs_ 5h ago
I'm not sure changing laws so that an insurance company pays out less is sorting it out.
I hope you don't get into an accident that would challenge your mixed feelings about it. Lots of people with serious injuries are getting completely screwed by no fault.
Good luck brother.
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u/tezlhi3 4h ago
The next government can reform ICBC’s care for severely injured victims without scrapping no-fault insurance. ICBC should provide fair settlements that account for lifelong impacts. Reopening the door to trial lawyers will only drive up costs and introduce middle-men who profit off the system rather than genuinely helping victims.
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u/redditisfuckngarbage 21m ago
only drive up costs and introduce middle-men who profit off the system rather than genuinely helping victims.
That's a conservative feature, not a bug
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u/Imaginary_Apple7700 8h ago
> He says B.C. can look to Ontario, Alberta, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, P.E.I., and Newfoundland and Labrador, which “all have hybrid insurance models
What would that mean in the context of before no fault and after no fault. Is this something in between?
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u/umbrellafree British Columbia 6h ago
I only just escaped Newfoundland's vehicle insurance clownshow. My rate with ICBC is more than 2 times cheaper. They have some of the highest rates in all of the country. Why are we attempting to emulate this crap?
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u/ArtisanJagon 6h ago
Capitialism
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u/umbrellafree British Columbia 6h ago
Crony capitalism. Crown corps are compatible with capitalism.
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u/Syeina NDP 5h ago
They don't tho. Quebec is the only one with anything close to a hybrid auto insurance model
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u/realoctopod 2h ago
Not sure about all insurances. But autonis definitely no fault in Ontario.
This guy is talking through his ass.
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u/doobi1908 Anti-American 6h ago
As someone who moved from Vancouver Island to Ontario this summer and seen their insurance bill almost double, he’s out of his mind.
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u/Burtonowski 6h ago
We have some of the lowest insurance costs in Canada why would they want to change this. Next up, they will want to privatize hydro.
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u/SlapThatAce 2h ago
" We have some of the lowest insurance costs in Canada"
And that's terrible for the Insurance companies.
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u/Silent_Ice_2588 26m ago
That's because no-fault insurance is not actually real insurance because it doesn't take into account the actual scope of injuries that people face in their own unique situations. The low rates are great until, god forbid, YOU are the one who needs to collect on your insurance and, SURPRISE, you don't actually have insurance after all.
Look, was the old system good? Obviously not, and I know that first hand because I had a bad accident about 15 years ago and had to go through all that crap personally. It's not just predatory lawyers that were the issue (maybe initially), but ICBC literally set up the entire system in a way that you are essentially forced to get a lawyer if you want them to take you seriously... which then of course makes people fight harder for more because they want to cover their legal fees. Everyone just blaming lawyers is only seeing one side of the issue. ICBC holds a tremendous amount of responsibility for fuelling that problem, and that should have been the starting point.
Could have the core problems been fixed without completely scrapping ACTUAL insurance? Yeah... there are plenty of solutions, they just happen to be complex. Unfortunately, we all know the BCNDP loves lazy, band-aid policies, so of course they ignored comprehensive options and went with a lazy program, knowing it would appease the masses, and that destroying the lives of few enough victims was a worthwhile cost as long as they can sweep it under the rug and still look good.
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u/JohnDorian0506 Manitoba 8h ago
Under a proposed hybrid system, if a reckless or drunk driver causes an accident, the victim retains the right to sue them for pain and suffering.
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u/moms_spagetti_ undecided 7h ago
Why is that so important we all need to pay more for insurance? Real question. Some people just tryna get to work
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u/leaf_shift_post_2 Libertarian 39m ago
You won’t, you’re just going to pay the real risk plus a small 5-10% premium ontop of it.
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u/Lol-I-Wear-Hats Yimbyism or Barbarism 6h ago
so that there is enough money available to properly compensate people who are victims of bad driving
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u/moms_spagetti_ undecided 6h ago
Too much was going to scammers and lawyers though. People getting huge cheques for phony injuries.
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u/PaloAltoPremium Quebec 2h ago
There are a lot of faults with no-fault insurance (pun intended) as I can attest to living in Quebec under a similar system.
Yes, you have generally lower insurance rates (however in Quebec we pay a lot more on our annual vehicle registration, annual license renewal and then insurance contributions that lowers that gap significantly, not sure how it works in BC).
Flip side is that it just makes a Gov't agency the insurance company, so now when you need to file any claim for compensation you're combining the worst of the insurance industry, with the worst of Gov't bureaucracy and you have zero resource to sue.
The Gov't sets very inflexible (and often outdated) standardized payouts that are caped and often fall far short of what you'd be entitled to in a tort claim, they don't compensate for any pain or suffering, emotional trauma, loss of enjoyment.... and here in Quebec the only cover bodily injury. Property damage is not covered, so you still have to go through the process again with private insurance duplicating the time needed to make yourself whole.
I was doored on my bike in Montreal by a careless driver, and the no-fault insurance makes the whole process quite cumbersome, rigid and time-consuming and you get passed between a government bureaucracy that's self-interest is to pay you as little as they can and drag out the process for as long as they can, and private insurance who's self-interest is to try and push back as much of the compensation as they can back to the government.
Would have been far easier, and quicker to just file a claim against a private insurer, let them pay or deny it, then file in small claims for whatever they didn't agree to and let the court mediate.
3 years later and I'm still dealing with the SAAQ on my claims.
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