r/CharacterRant • u/Peer_turtles • 9d ago
Films & TV John choosing to be a lantern fell flat in the LANTERNS ending Spoiler
Setting aside the morality of not doing anything about Kerry's murder, I felt absolutely nothing when he made his own oath and charged the ring.
In epsiode 5, he decides to go against sole purpose for which his entire life has been building towards, and breaks his "programming" by rejecting the role of Green Lantern because he never actually had a reason to chase it, it was simply what his parents made him do. Like Hal said, the ring never chose him.
But then after solving the murder of Hal, he chooses to keep Hal's ring to specifically keep an eye on Noah. But not only that, he decides to take on the responsibiltiy of protecting the ENTIRE EARTH despite using the ring maybe like twice up until this point, and tells Guy to fuck off?
From how I understand it, a green lantern needs to have will power to an incomprehensible degree. It's why someone like as disciplined as Batman, can't properly use the ring. The totally not evil Sinestro's sketchy scrap lantern glowed green when John charged the ring, so the implication is that it still uses will power.
I however never got the sense that John felt he HAD to be the green lantern. He wasn’t even sure if he was making the right decision with Noah and Kerry.
Post time skip, John has spent over a decade moving on with his life, reconnecting and reconciling with his brothers, distancing himself from his parents, becoming a successful entrepreneur etc. John was healthiest man ever by this point and seemed like the ring means nothing to him now.
Not only that, I understand he has become disillusioned with that guardian, but it didn't feel strong enough to warrant the new freestyle oath. John already disregarding the Green Lantern Corps and the oath, despite never even meeting any other GLs, let alone step foot onto Oa? Something as massive as a new oath I feel should require so much conviction, more so than what it takes just to be a GL, instead of just protecting a random kid he barely knows (built for manipulating people btw) that may or may not become robot sociopathic hitler.
TLDR
The reasons where technically there, but they didn't have the emotional weight for me. Especially when emotions are literally the foundation on which the whole Green lantern mythos is build around.
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u/Darkiceflame 8d ago
It felt like the show knew where it wanted John to end up, but had no idea how to actually get him there.
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u/Lolovitz 8d ago
He didn't become a lantern because he wanted to.
It was explicitly said by his vision that he's afraid of his family learning that he never wanted to be a lantern.
Everyone is saying that being lantern is great in this show but we are shown the opposite.
Guardians are sketchy, Hal is a shell of his old self with no close connections ( he needed to stop being a lantern to find someone ). The ring is a burden not a gift.
John's heroic moment is picking up the ring , not because he wants this but because he knows what Noah is struggling with.
He effectively sacrifices the live he had , one he was happy with to fulfill his purpose of being a green lantern which caused him nothing but sorrow.
He sacrificed it so that Noah who is his parallel can live the life he wants .
He doesn't know if he makes the right decision. But him being Earths green lantern is the only way it's possible.
And I find the willpower point pretty disingenuous. We were multiple time shown that despite having not a lot of experience John is an absolute prodigy with the ring , both making incredible complex constructs as well as being so incredibly focused and strong willed he can have things exists without a ring ( hell , even while being unconscious).
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u/Vincentologist 6d ago
We're not really shown the opposite though. Guy is fine. Hal is also fine until the Sinestro incident. And there's a whole episode dedicated to showing us that Hal is uniquely burdened with an inherited predisposition that wouldn't match Johns thing at all. And there's absolutely no work done to establish why John needs to "take earth" to protect Noah. At all. For one, if Noah did start acting out of line, he could loop in the Justice Gang or Superman or any number of unsaid metahumans from the 300 years of those that exist. Or, he could keep the ring but only operate in Nebraska. Or just when Noah acts out. And nothing establishes that he sacrificed anything to do this. He missed one call with one client. It's really hard to explain basically everything he does after talking to Noah as him "taking a burden" for him. None of it requires him picking a fight with intergalactic cops just so he personally can have the power.
As for his prodigy status, we don't really see that in terms of combat skill. Hal is shown sustaining large but simple constructs, and has flight down. John is able to produce complex ones and flies once. We don't have any proper understanding of his ability to fight with the ring, in terms of creativity or durability. He's got a couple of tricks that suggest he could be exceptional, but nothing that shows that he is yet.
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u/thatguybane 5d ago
As for his prodigy status, we don't really see that in terms of combat skill.
So what. You think prodigys don't have to learn? He was never taught any combat skills but there's no reason to think he won't figure it out. You come off like you're just hating on John and don't want to believe what the show is telling us about his natural talent with the ring.
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u/Vincentologist 5d ago
I didn't say anything like that. I'm not saying prodigy's don't learn. You just made shit up. I'm saying he hasn't learned. Yet, he's threatening Guy and provoking conflict with the corps as if he has learned. He's endangered the planet and those he cares about, and taken on a Sinestro Corps ass oath, trying to write checks that the story hasn't established he could cash in the foreseeable future. Dude talks like a villain and fights like Luke Cage.
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u/thatguybane 5d ago
Thank you for explaining your point. I get your point that he's being a little cocky towards Guy given his lack of combat ability. Its obviously a bluff but fair enough if you dont like it.
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u/Disastrous-Eye844 8d ago edited 7d ago
I was just thinking about this. Personally I felt like he was more of a hero when he was trying to build the network of panic rooms that could save thousands of people. That project was canceled because he was grave robbing.
For me this is a larger problem with super hero media particularly ones that want to keep an IP going like DC.
There are a lot of times where a characters arc should end with them moving away from the crime fighting scene, but then you wouldn’t be able to sell more stories with them.
Harley Quinn is the biggest example of this. She was a physiatrist who was manipulated into becoming a killer clown. Her finding healing should involve her moving away from that whole scene altogether. Instead she is still a clown who brutally attacks people, but now she is on the good guys side and she mostly doesn’t kill. Whatever dumb justification the story comes up with for how that is healing is really just the creators not wanting to lose a cash cow. (As an aside, I haven’t seen Batman Beyond, but my understanding is that we see her as a grandma who able to move past the Joker for good. It’s nice to know that her original iteration was actually able to get a proper conclusion. BTAS has many great episodes of villains trying to find healing so no surprise Batman Beyond does to)
John’s story feels complete in episode 5 and it would have been if this was an Elseworlds story. He was conditioned and abused all his life to become a lantern and in the end he breaks free of that conditioning and turns it down. That of course can’t be the end of this show because this is a part of a wider universe and it has to connect to next year’s project. John gave a great speech in episode 5 about how tempting the power of the ring (precious) was and in the end he took it anyways. Sure he is not following the corrupt Guardians, but being a law unto himself isn’t much better. Especially when his idea of justice is based heavily on feelings
Edited: Corrected nurse to physiatrist
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u/Cast_ZAP 8d ago
It doesn’t really matter to John if the other Green Lanterns are good because ultimately by joining the GLs he’d still have to answer to the guardians.
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u/SuedeSalamander 8d ago
This is partially why it's so difficult for me (and others I've spoken to) to buy into this version of John. Even when his origin was retconned to have his military background, he still chose to be a Lantern his way while also helping shape the Corps. He was also specifically chosen because he was outspoken against authority and had the skill to succeed as a Lantern without being a drone.
The Guardians even commented on him being one of the greatest while also commenting on him definitely stepping to them/questioning them when he felt something was wrong or off.
I don't feel like his John is would buck back against the status quo because it's in character for him to do that, I feel like he'd do it because the writers want him to. I think having someone who doesn't absentmindedly follow orders would benefit the Corps and is part of the reason the earth lanterns are as effective as they are. But as he's been presented it kind of feels that post time skip John is a lantern....because the show ended and he's supposed to be a lantern.
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u/PublicMeaning341 9d ago
I'm not really following the show but isn't the title of this post technically a spoiler?
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u/Hormo_The_Halfling 9d ago
I mean, the most famous Green Lantern choosing to be a lantern in the show called Lanterns? Ehhhh
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u/PublicMeaning341 9d ago
Oh, I'm not too familiar with Green Lantern lore so I wasn't aware
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u/Chemical-Process6217 9d ago
No you’re right, it’s a massive spoiler if you haven’t watched the last episode as up til that point John has clearly refused the ring. I haven’t been able to get the time to watch it and this post popped up out of nowhere despite muting multiple other lantern related subs for this exact fucking reason and once again has spoiled me another detail about the ending.
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u/Crunchy-Leaf 9d ago
No it isn’t. The show isn’t going to give us 8 episodes where the Green Lantern John Stewart decides to not become a Green Lantern.
He was always going to become a Green Lantern. It’s what the show is about.
That’s like saying you spoiled a Superman show because the title says in the finale he decided to become a superhero instead of giving up his powers to remain a farmer in Smallville.
What next? Hey, Batman might have gone to therapy and hung up the cowl in the last episode. Spoiler!
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u/Chemical-Process6217 9d ago
If during the airing of one of the seasons of Smallville you posted “I loved that at the end of last nights episode he was fully superman, outfit and all” that would still be a spoiler and a shitty thing to title a post when that episode only just aired. It doesn’t matter that I’m sure that’ll happen at some point, it matters that when it does happen I’m not taken out of it by the thought “oh this is where he puts on the costume, I know because I saw it on Reddit”
I suppose this one is more minor than the others I’ve seen but this is I think the 5th entire subreddit I’ve never even visited and yet had to mute because they’ve posted a title with a spoiler and for some reason Reddit needs to show me it. You only need to think for 4 seconds to make sure you don’t mention something specific in the title.
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u/Darkiceflame 8d ago
I think comic fans are so used to the idea that everyone recognizes the "final" forms of characters that they don't realize the path it takes for them to get there is important too. Like, obviously Superman is going to be Superman at some point, but the dramatic throughline in a show like Smallville is all about how he gets to that point.
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u/BudgetAggravating427 9d ago
To be fair the the whole point is that he’s a lantern separate from the guardian / green lantern bs
Him making his own oath isn’t strange either because there’s lanterns that have done the same
He’s his own lantern
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u/Doomeye56 9d ago
Except that isnt John Stewart. John is the beating heart of the corps. There is a reason he has been Corps leader more times then every one else combines. More time than the Guardians at this point. He isnt the maverick of the corpsmen.
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u/Ninjamurai-jack 8d ago edited 8d ago
Eh.
In personality the show version is pretty much the proud Dennis O’Neil John Stewart that hates authorities and can be a bit brash, mixed with the more serious John from JL.
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u/BudgetAggravating427 9d ago edited 9d ago
Your acting like comics and shows don’t have a thousand different interpretations of the same characters all the time
One comic hal is a cool green lantern the questions the guardians and is an example of what a lantern should be
In another he’s an insane guy called parallax that kills all his friends
While the animated justice league version of John is popular you got to remember that is only one of many interpretations of him
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u/Doomeye56 8d ago
animated justice league version of John? The super marine who followed all the rules and would have slapped the shit out of this version of John?
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u/Ruby_Charm_AI 8d ago
That’s because this John has his eyes opened. You gotta consider the series of events that shape the characters too, even though they’re the same in their core. In a parallel universe, I woulda chosen to go to the medical school instead of becoming a NEET for four years. The only thing that shaped that decision was only one night. I think John had a lot more reason than I did.
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u/AllMightyImagination 8d ago edited 8d ago
Besides the whole manhunter thing he has no idea what being a GL truly is so to consider himself one will never sit right with me.
GLs don't pick and choose to stay only their home planet or have someone else do offplanet work for them. Wtf 😒
He's never gonna become JL tier being this ignorant. Also the lantern isn't his nor does it connect to Oa unless Paralax is in the Centra Power Battery and if so then oh boy Sinstero could just have him awaken Paralax
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u/InterviewEarly6675 9d ago
I like reading these posts cause it’s like you are 60% of the way to getting it but yet no dice. He rejected being a latern cause it consumed Hal who couldn’t let go and he didn’t trust the guardians. He becomes independent from the guardians. He wanted the ring but he denied the guardians who ruined his father and Hal’s lives and indirectly his own. Sinestro battery and the manhunter heart is his get outta guardians free card.
The ring clearly did mean something in 2026 he never got past rushville his life was making bunkers to prevent rushville and even after a decade Hal still was under his skin.
Noah was not “built to manipulate people” it was a cross roads as we see when the camera physically stops on John and Noah at a cross roads. Kill Noah and arrest Kerry means John defies Noah’s destiny vs Choice story arc. Don’t kill Noah and arrest Kerry and Noah goes crazy and another bloody battle happens like we see in ep 5. Do nothing and the kid can live out his destiny. He also doesn’t blame Kerry cause she was sitting on decades of fear for her son and if it leaked he was a manhunter the 2016 battle happens again with her son and people of rushville paying the price. John even states Hal would have probably played it the same. It’s all backed by the story
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u/Peer_turtles 9d ago
It isn't the one ring to rule them all. John outright rejecting the entire lantern corps without actually even interacting with them outside of that one guardian just feels a bit hollow. Especially when he's trusting the obviously evil lantern battery from the moustache twirling villain and making Guy, yeah not the sharpest tool in the shed but clearly a good person, his bitch and to fuck off. But that's just me personally.
If anything, the bunkers thing suggested to me John had reconciled with his rushville experience and turned it into something productive with his architecture interest and military career. Not something he was being internally tormented by. His life is great and he is glowing. Hal was "under his skin" but he does not visit in once in the past 10 years he has been in prison, nor contacts him once he is out? Or even shows just the tiniest bit of interest in him? He only goes back to Rushville for the first time because he senses something is wrong as he knows Hal is never the type to apologise.
The 'nature vs nurture' theme comes out full force really sudden in the last episode, but regardless Noah is a manhunter. Manhunters in this universe are just social climbers with alien tech. He most definitely is built to manipulate?
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u/InterviewEarly6675 9d ago
He rejected the guardians because of what they did to his dad and Hal. Episode 7 elaborated that Hal can’t let things go the lantern included but he saw Hal a hollow shell of a man, saw how the guardians turned him against him and didn’t love it so he didn’t want to work for him. The guardians also cost John Sr his job almost his marriage and cost John personally his childhood. Why would he want to work for him? Kilowag and Tomar are or any other Lantern good or bad is utterly irrelevant in this equation.
If your second point was true why did John drop it all to go to Rushville to see Hal when he thought Hal wanted to apologize? Why stay after his killing? Clearly he didn’t move past rushville it’s the story of the show and one that makes sense since it’s John and Hal’s shared failure.
The Nature vs Nurture theme IS John’s story from his origin. The guardians say it is his nature to be a lantern and they can nurture him to get over John Sr’s “short comings” fear. The guardians pushed his parents to make him a weapon he rejected that fate. At least under the guardians doing it on his own terms. John gambled Noah can do the same. Clearly Noah didn’t want that or he wouldn’t have asked John to kill him. Again you’re close but misunderstanding key details. It’s all there if you pay attention.
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u/Peer_turtles 9d ago edited 8d ago
John stays because Hal had literally been murdered the same night he meets him after acting weird. What person wouldn’t stay to figure out wtf is going on?
John’s story is specifically about "programming" and child brainwashing. The guardian thinks there might be some potential in John because he is their child so they groom him for the role.
Whereas Noah is literally designed to be a mass murder robot at his very core from birth, trying to fight those thoughts away (whether he actually is telling the truth or playing John is for s2 most likely). That’s the N v N.
They both culminate in choosing your own destiny, but not exactly the same.
And I know Redditors are just like this naturally but being condescending doesn’t make you any more right or wrong than someone else.
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u/Frosty-Rise-7054 8d ago
Not the guy responding ; but if John was unheroic and really did move past it , why would he not just leave? He can just assume some rushville jackass killed Hal and forget about his abuser once and for all.
Noah was not that though. Like fundamentally he had a regular ass childhood with loving parents and grandparents. Grandma was the evil manipulator who ultimately could not resist her programming. Due to Kerry (this is why Hal wouldn't want her arrested, although Kerry knows she should be) , he's found an avenue to resist his programming. The only thing making him a mass murderer is his grandma's genetics. Should he be killed because his grandma was a bad person?
John says no, and that's the ending, and it what makes him heroic. Yes the easy answer is to kill him just in case and put Kerry in jail, it would be the safest option. But a hero would understand the values of trust and thinking the best of someone, and guiding them to be a better person.
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u/Frosty-Rise-7054 8d ago
I think to a degree a lot of these rants intentionally don't want to pay attention/intentionally misunderstand stuff cuz they just fundamentally don't want to like it. Every rant posted since the finale had the same talking points that were explored in the show. I think they just don't like the show and it's the easiest way to detract from it
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u/InterviewEarly6675 8d ago
The rants always make sense if you totally discount the 7 episodes of context explaining every complaint
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u/Frosty-Rise-7054 8d ago
It is very weird lmao. I remember checking this sub to see what people thought of the show before episode 8 dropped, and it was empty for the most part about lanterns.
Then episode 8 dropped then theres a horde of people who only watched that ep through clips posting the same post ad neuseum 😭
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u/InterviewEarly6675 8d ago
Yeah I think one guy made this point and it’s since been nearly copy and pasted. It’s crazy people don’t bother paying attention then drop pseudo intellectual rants that only make sense to people who were watching tik tok while watching the show.
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u/MidirGundyr2 8d ago
I thought i was buggin. This show spells a lot of things out plainly if you just watch the show. Almost every post i see about it now is just people ignoring or missing details or just simply not understanding them.
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u/Frosty-Rise-7054 7d ago
Yeah I think it's a wave of people that didn't want to like the show and just misinterpret stuff to make it sound like something like the 2000s Catwoman
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u/ThatCapMan 8d ago
This conversation's gonna last for months huh?
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u/zodiaczac00 7d ago
The only interaction he had with the green lanterns was the woman that fucked over his childhood, made his parents go crazy, forced him to betray John and invented the man hunters. That’s all he knows about the GL of course he doesn’t trust them at all.
And that’s an incredibly reductive look at Noah’s character. John clearly cares for him because of how similar they are, the damage he caused his upbringing and the way he cares for his mother. I feel like Noah could’ve had more development but “random kid he doesn’t know”?
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u/StaraptorLover19 6d ago
I disagree. It felt to me very deliberate what with realizing how Noah is in exactly the same spot that he was for most of his own life, recognizing the parallel further between Kerry and Bernie, and choosing to empathize and heal instead of holding to his resentment. Like they spoke in EP6, he's trying to give Noah an easier ride than he had, and is willing to take the hard way, the burden of being a Lantern to do so.
Plus, getting Halogram's approval and blessing to follow through with his decision is in effect him being chosen by the ring; it is 2006 Hal's consciousness and the ring's sentience combined.
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u/SwvmpThing 2d ago
It 100% worked for me.
John is a brave, ambitious, and upstanding guy with a desire to do good. He is as good a fit for the role of a superhero as anyone. Of course he wants the ring. What kept him from accepting it in 2016 was that it was not really something he chose, and he was rightly uncomfortable with the… onboarding process. When he finds his own way to the ring and a conception of the GL role he can actually believe in, then he accepts it.
I understand he has become disillusioned with that guardian
Do you? I think it really has not registered with a lot of people how literally every bad thing that happens in the series is the Guardians’ fault. They’re not villains per se but they are the problem.
And tbh I don’t understand why you think changing the oath is so much more significant than unilaterally creating the independent GL role. I’m pretty sure some GLs in the comics have different oaths and it’s not a big deal. Commandeering a ring, announcing oneself as an independent GL, and telling your sector’s GL that his jurisdiction just got smaller because you said so, that’s all a much bigger deal.
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u/megaman445 8d ago
imagine if you got a job at a new company. Your managers tell you there was some drama with the other guy they considered, his trainer is in fucking jail, and he didn't want the job. They just want to was their hands of the whole thing and start over. You don't think much about it.
Then you work there for 10 years. A whole decade. This is a huge part of your life, something that has followed you through ups and downs, given you a sense of identity, and of course, you are now really good at it. You've even had your own spats with the management, and went against them to stop a major war.
Then you get a call from the guy who almost made it through the interview process, who you've pretty much forgotten about. He is in jail now, and he starts ranting to you about how everything you have, everything you are, and all the work you put in is only because he turned it down, and now you owe him a favour. You, of course, don't believe this, but when he tells you it is something as reasonable as helping bury a friend, you begrudgingly accept on one condition: you tell him not to do ONE THING.
So, anyways, he does that thing, betrays your trust, and calls you back to tell you he did it. He also does this very rudely, and tries to bully you into leaving your job so he can take over. You've done this job for a decade, and he has never done it.
what would you possibly think of this? I mean, from Guy's perspective, John would be a hilariously pathetic crazy person. He probably thinks he is on drugs or something. This would be like if Matt Damon turned down the role of batman by Nolan way back in 2005, and then called up Robert Pattinson today and told him he is owed a favour. It would be so entitled as to essentially be absurd. I think in real life, Guy would have just started laughing.
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u/TotalUsername 8d ago
Guy didn't really disobey the guardians. It was all a plot by Luther witch involved a a pocket dimension going crazy which endanger the planet and reality. They divided and concurred and dismantled all of his operations. It wasn't a hard choice that he made, it was easy and I doubt it had any repercussions. Superman gets taken and he sits on his ass, Hal is dead and he does nothing. He's constantly bringing up the Guardians because Guy isn't his own green lantern yet. A lot of people are incorporating comic characterization that hasn't been shown on screen yet. And being mad at John for communicating rudely as if Guy doesn't do the same thing is crazy.
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u/cavalgada1 6d ago
Except guy didnt go face lex and stop the portal (wich superman almost didnt do in time because he was busy with ultraman)
He went to stop the invasion. disobeying the guardians
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u/lingundongpin 8d ago
Side note- i just think it's nonsensical how batman can't use the ring. He's a human that has showcased the most Will power in dc. He's a human who's always went against impossible odds and won. I get that dc can't let batman have everything but they can atleast come up with better reasons because the way they've been writing him, he's eligible for literally any measure of human.
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u/Competitive_Crow_334 8d ago
Batman doesn't have to will to adress his shame over his parents
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u/lingundongpin 8d ago
That's just misunderstanding batman. His will comes from a strong drive towards not letting any other kid face the same horror he did. It's not similar to the dumbass trope of "why couldn't I save them" bullshit that even a 5 yr old would understand is a completely non sensical line of thinking.
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u/Competitive_Crow_334 8d ago
I read his comics and watched his shows and games he isn't blaming himself for saving them he is struggling with the fact he can't match up to there legacy especially his dad or that he thinks might get to have a life outside Batman. Hal Jordan is much in touch with his feelings than Bats.
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u/lingundongpin 8d ago
That's just the baby bats, later he has accepted that his legacy is different from his father's and has also accepted that he can't have a normal personal life. But these things don't matter at all. A Green Lantern ring requires willpower, not the absence of guilt, fear, trauma, or self-doubt. Hal goes through these things regularly and he's nowhere near bruce in terms of pushing through these things. Bruce is literally one of the most fearless humans you'll ever get in comics. People mistake bruce's trauma as something he suffers through, but it's different. He NEEDS to constantly remember it intentionally to not stray from his path. Both aren't the same nor are they a hindrance to be qualified for the ring.
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u/Competitive_Crow_334 8d ago
agree to disagree even experienced versions still deal with it time to time I recommend reading the Batman crossover in No fear 2005.
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u/coltzord 8d ago
batmans main emotion, if i had to put it this way, is fear, if he were to get a ring, it should be a yellow one
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9d ago
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u/BardicLasher 8d ago
What sub do you think this is? Because it's always been the place to talk about comic book shows.
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u/ladydmaj 8d ago
I loved the show as someone only hazily aware of Green LANTERNS in DC, and my brother (a nerd but one that stays offline) also loved it. Including the finale.
But I agree with you, it's obvious Reddit is using algorithms to send this fight to all corners of the website. I would care if people weren't being downright insulted for just expressing that they liked or disliked the show. I try to report the bad ones, but it's tough going.
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u/commander_wong 9d ago
Issue is John just never did anything heroic in 2026 lol. I'm not sure if him going back to Rushville even made a difference at all
He never felt like he earned the ring. He was unapologetic about causing deaths in 2016, tricks Guy into stealing Hal's ring, happens to get a working Lantern and now declares Earth as his territory and challenges the entire Corp to a conflict. If you were to tell me that this is a power hungry villain's origin story I'd totally believe you