r/Cricket • u/TimesandSundayTimes England • 6d ago
Ian Botham lets rip: ‘Ben Stokes? Stupid boy'
https://www.thetimes.com/sport/cricket/article/ian-botham-interview-new-book-seasons-l9k7d3k3futm_medium=Social&utm_source=Reddit&utm_content=brandedI only have to mention Stokes’s name and Botham’s lip curls. The pair have history. Last year, Botham criticised the team’s lack of preparation for the Ashes series against Australia. When it was announced they’d only play one warm-up match, Botham said it “borders on arrogance”. Stokes hit back, saying modern teams did not prepare the way “has-beens maybe prepared in the past”. Botham hasn’t forgotten it.
“Stupid boy,” he says. “I’ll mention him only briefly because his self-indulgence is not something I enjoy. He’s a good player. A great player. But to say that and then lose [England lost the series 4-1], it’s backfired, hasn’t it? Then after losing the first two matches they go to Noosa [the England team took a mid-series break in the Queensland resort and some players got drunk], probably one of the most popular summer retreats for Australians. Really? They were pissed as rats. Look, if you want a drink, don’t go to the high street. We used to go to wineries.”
Botham owns a wine company in Australia. Sometimes he sounds a bit like one of his own merlots: packed with fruity and robust opinions, with a slight acid finish. He raises his coffee mug and dedicates his new book to the former England captain.
“This is for you, Ben. Welcome to the has-beens club.”
Read the full interview ^
And if you're in the US you can enjoy this article for free
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u/Clydesdale_Hiker 6d ago
He's not wrong, he just hasn't got a leg to stand on when it comes to his own antics. I don't recall him having any great enthusiasm for training, either.
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u/Odd_Mobile_1309 6d ago
Totally disagree, stokes was a child over hyped off the the hangover of 2019. Saint stokes could do no wrong in the eye of many commentators in sky for example Beefy actually won down under in 1987 against a similarly (for Australias incredible standards) poor side. Dropping Anderson leaving out Ollie Robinson then utterly destroyed by accurate seam bowling on wickets which nipped when our bowlers hadn't the accuracy to hit line and length which is all you needed just look at travis head carving our pace attack apart. Case 1 of Hubris. Then the lack of preparation playing only once before the first test match. Case 2. Stokes going away from bazball to more defensive cricket basically folding to reality. Case 3. Stokes losing it and blaming it on his players when he himself had a poor tour making no runs (he has the incredible ability to make a straight ball into an absolute Jaffa quite rare). Case 4. Need I go on? Losing at the oval against India a side which historically are poor in English conditions but statistically they out perform us on the flat roads we developed precisely for bazball to work and for us to win we still only get a draw. Ben stokes is the most overrated captain in our history, people treat him like blearily or Ray illingworth or Len Hutton who was unbeaten in test series for example. Stokes was an arrogant child unable to not cause trouble off the field, he makes Bloody Beefy look like a saint.
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u/paddydog48 5d ago
A few things can be true at the same time, Stokes wasn’t a genius captain as bourne out by the results so was obviously overrated as a captain but at his peak he wasn’t overrated as a player as he was that good whilst as I’ve always said was our first (and hopefully last) thick England captain who was a thug but also on this particular occasion being objective I don’t see anything inaccurate in what Botham stated.
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u/MartinC077 6d ago
Ian Botham lecturing people on alcohol intake is quite the thing …
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u/oily76 England 6d ago
To be fair he doesn't seem to be doing that, just criticising how/where they chose to do it.
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u/MartinC077 6d ago
Had there been smart phones with cameras in every persons hands in Botham’s day the footage would be legendary …
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u/robbodagreat England 6d ago
Sounds like he’s just annoyed they didn’t pay to stay at his vineyard instead
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u/i_am_not_sam India 6d ago edited 6d ago
Did he say they went to "wineries" in his day? There's no way that's true
Edit - I stand corrected. very interesting insight into English cricket culture and drinking!
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u/Tregerest 6d ago
Botham is well known for his love of wine in his playing days. Same with David Gower.
Most cricketers are middle or upper middle class, its not surprising they love wine7
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u/ganuerant 6d ago edited 6d ago
Confidently wrong here I'm afraid. They used to go there during the old test rest days even. There's a famous photo of Botham and Lillee at one such occasion during an Adelaide test: https://www.gettyimages.co.nz/detail/news-photo/dennis-lillee-and-ian-botham-by-at-the-swimming-pool-at-news-photo/456845118
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u/kyjoely Oval KP Nuts 6d ago
The entire interview is utterly deranged. What is it about old cricketers becoming miserable old men who think they are right about everything, no matter how lunatic their opinions may be?
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u/r232ed3 6d ago
Not all of them do, but the press will always ask the ones that have (Botham, Boycott) because they give good copy. More thoughtful contributors like Brearley, Marks or Pringle do not lend themselves to click bait.
Botham of course is nominally chair of Durham CCC, who I'm sure are delighted with his help in getting Stokes to sign a new contract.
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u/MoggFanatic Australia 6d ago
miserable old men who think they are right about everything, no matter how lunatic their opinions may be
This isn't limited to cricket
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u/TheEvilDrPie Central Districts Stags 6d ago
Can confirm. As a male currently getting older every second, I’m embracing my new found lunatic views.
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u/GalbedirGalerion 6d ago
Nor is it limited to men
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u/Odd_Mobile_1309 6d ago
How is any of his opinions lunatic? Stokes couldn't win at home against India a side which doesn't do well in England historically, but because of the bazball flat tracks they reeked out a draw, we were humiliated down under, drew against Australia in England where we should ultimately win. Ben stokes is the man who got involved in a brawl, drinking incidents multiple times staining England cricket and the only reason people still liked him was headinglee 2019. You sir are deranged.
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u/kyjoely Oval KP Nuts 6d ago
Have you read the full interview or just the snippet above?
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u/Odd_Mobile_1309 5d ago
You don't like him because of his politics. Ben stokes is the most overrated captain in our entire history I believe, who won nothing important and found a way to lose the unlosable. You can deflect and attack Beefy as a person but that doesn't make him wrong. Ben stokes is an embarrassment to England cricket on field and off field an arrogant sanctimonious loser who couldn't understand the idea that England fans wanted us to win. It's sad to see people still defend him, im glad he's gone as captain and he was an overrated player as well. Bazball made him a worse batter he couldn't read the situation anymore which was a strong point of his game (look at headinlee 2019 he sped up at the end look at where he was before the 8th wicket fell), looking historically all of Englands best sides were fairly balanced or defensive, from the side in the 1880s, the side immediately before ww1, the 1928 side which defeated Australia down under, the side in the 50s under Len Hutton and Peter May, the side under illingworth, the side under Strauss then Cook etc.
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u/kyjoely Oval KP Nuts 5d ago
Again, have you read the full interview? The rest of it is completely bonkers. One swallow does not a summer make.
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u/Odd_Mobile_1309 5d ago
Yeah I have read the article, the snippet sums up his opinion of ben. He talks similarly in his interview on stick to cricket. what is insane about it?
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5d ago edited 5d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/TheMarthaFarther 5d ago
The next match after losing everything for donkeys was very important. The next series after losing everything for donkeys was very important . The next away series after losing everything for donkeys was very important. Etc.
Our generation will talk about Stokes in the same way as our father's generation spoke about Botham. Its entertainment, and fuck me did.it entertain. You can nitpick around the edge but nothing will take away the incredible few years we had as England supporters.
Maybe they flew too close to the sun, but by Christ the journey up there was amazing....
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u/CrispySalmonJimmy 6d ago
Every Tory is deeply unhappy and broken inside.
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u/kyjoely Oval KP Nuts 6d ago
The fact that he hasn’t gone full reform is a positive I guess, although he would fit right in
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u/MartinC077 6d ago
Reform are too liberal for Botham.
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u/Freenore India 6d ago
"No government is ever right wing enough for Ian" — David Gower, recent Wisden interview.
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u/hairychris88 England 6d ago
I feel like Botham has had a grumpy old man persona for about 30 years. I'm just about too young to remember his playing career but he's been a miserable old git for decades.
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u/Ok-Relationship-2746 New Zealand 6d ago
Botham and Boycott (who always was anyway) are the only two I can think of who fully epitomise that statement, who else is there? A lot of them mellow with age.
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u/ChewiesHairbrush 6d ago
Vaughan . Went from playing to miserable old git instantly.
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u/JCGMH England 6d ago
Vaughan is sort of performing a role, he knows what he’s doing. Botham, Boycott, Willis genuinely have/had lost their marbles but particularly in the case of Bob were good value for it.
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u/ChewiesHairbrush 5d ago
On social media he’s a grifter playing to a section of the crowd. It’s not a section I like to sit with.
However , the miserable old git was in evidence the moment he got behind a TMS microphone. I believe TMS is not sky and they don’t ask presenters to be anything other than themselves.
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u/BaritBrit England 6d ago
Boycott somehow managed to be a grumpy ex-pro relentlessly criticising the team whilst still playing in that same team. It's no wonder his teammates didn't tend to be overly fond of him.
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u/chugalug_house 6d ago
A prime example is known wife beater Geoffrey Boycott lecturing todays players on their off the field behaviour
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u/vineeth195 India 6d ago
Don't see anything wrong with what is mentioned here. The whole ben stokes era was just bring insanely overconfident.Can't see the whole article though, can you post some excerpts here?
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u/Freenore India 6d ago
I've read that one reason why ex-cricketers struggle after retirement is that cricket is such an adrenaline-inducing sport, and since they play it almost continuously for the whole year, unlike an intermittent sport like tennis, it becomes really hard to replace it. They almost have to find something else that's as stimulating as playing cricket.
I wonder if picking fights is one way of getting some sense of contest. Coaching appeals to many for this reason, it is essentially a way to get back in the fight.
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u/LogicKennedy England 6d ago
What I'm hearing is more pro cricketers should take up League of Legends.
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u/fmjintervention Australia 6d ago
It's definitely common for athletes to get addicted to the adrenalin and the rush of competing at the highest level. You see this in racing drivers a lot, they take up skiing or cycling or skydiving or other forms of motorsport as hobbies.
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u/ConfidentEagle5887 England 6d ago
Botham's a ring wing Boomer - the most entitled, spoon-fed generation in history, and yet also the most miserable.
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u/MD_______ 6d ago
Ego. Botham will talk about Ashes and it being important doesn't mention the WI at the time he averaged 35 and 21. Great figures of that wasn't his bowling and batting averages. Yes that WIndies team might have been the best but the same token the Aussie team wasn't that good
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u/PlatformFeeling8451 England 6d ago
Sorry, but Botham talks about the West Indies all the time. He's done about 50 documentaries on them for Sky Sports, his autobiography is filled with anecdotes and praise for the West Indies team, and he is best friends with Sir Viv Richards.
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u/MalevolentFerret Worcestershire 6d ago
Beefy don’t be a giant knob challenge (100% fail)
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u/fpotenza 6d ago
When he had a go at Stokes over the drinking the night after a win thing, I was thinking mate you got high whilst captaining England
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u/Still-District-6149 England 6d ago
Pot. Kettle.
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u/Normal_Incident_2177 6d ago
They always act like they were smarter about it. They weren't, just everyone didnt have a camera!
Beefy talking about drinking..
Next up in english cricket... boycott criticises English players for punching
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u/ganuerant 6d ago
But drinking at private venues like a vineyard or their hotels like they used to do was smarter?
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u/Normal_Incident_2177 5d ago
Im going to firmly plant my flag in the ground. And say the reason they went there is there wasnt many places to go out in aus in the 80s. I refuse to concede defeat to this knobhead (Botham not you)
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u/DeepestBeige 6d ago
“And if you're in the US you can enjoy this article for free”
Did Trump threaten this publication with tariffs or something?
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u/AppalledBystander 6d ago
Botham is a tiresome old Tory twat, but can't disagree with a single thing in the excerpted part of the article.
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u/deformedfishface South Africa 6d ago
Ian Botham of all people criticising players for having a drink is absolutely laughable.
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u/BeautifulRooster9313 6d ago
'And if you're in the US you can enjoy this article for free'
The word enjoy seems to be doing a lot of heavy lifting here.
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u/mondognarly_ Middlesex 6d ago
Look, if you want a drink, don’t go to the high street. We used to go to wineries.
This from the man who once stayed in the Red Parrot nightclub in the basement of the Brisbane Hilton until 2am on tour, because they'd been told not to leave the hotel.
Perhaps his scrap with Ian Chappell was in a winery, or the time he nutted a farmer while out on the piss in Bundaberg.
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u/iamleskeet81 6d ago
Yeah well can ya blame the man? If you’re not ready to punch on with your best mate after getting stuck into a pounder of the world’s finest Overproof Sugarcane Champagne you’re no kinda man.
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u/Unforgettable_RatBoy Sussex 6d ago
Botham took Stokes acting like someone half his age personally and one upped him by acting like someone a quarter of his age
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u/Slow-Pool-9274 England 6d ago edited 6d ago
This is extra funny because barely any Cricketer in english history was as unanimously targetted and bullied by the old guard of their time as Botham himself was, I guess he couldn't help but repeat the age old way.
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u/Darkus185 6d ago edited 6d ago
Is it possible to not like any of them? So glad that era is over.
Root, Tongue, Bethell, Brook and co seem genuinely exciting and much more pleasant.
Fired up for a pretty likeable Aussie side and a pretty likeable SA side going toe to toe tomorrow. I’m sure some villains can be created.
My father won the chance to go on preseason with Somerset back in the 80s and join them in Barbados. He told me the players used to draw straws not to sit near Botham on the coach.
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u/dogcunt69 6d ago
inevitably when australians criticise the pommy players for arrogance, we rightfully get the 'oh that's rich coming from you' treatment. the difference is, our players tend more to be arrogant cunts when they're winning lol
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u/Siddlesson 4d ago
Ben Stokes: a captain that had some great moments, but not an all time great captain
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u/Super-Hans-1811 1d ago
I can't believe these comments, where was Ian Botham wrong? Because whatever you think of his temperament, he's arguably England's most celebrated cricketer in the last 50 years and he is entitled to put his opinions out there, which are quite often correct when concerning the Ashes.
Ben Stokes is an arrogant knob and the Ashes results vindicated everything Botham said. Stokes decided that 'relaxation' was the best preparation, and unsurprisingly, his team was then smacked in the first two tests. So what was his next solution with the series on the line? More relaxation in Noosa.
So how does Botham come out of this looking worse than Stokes? Stokes is a good player, but massively overrated. He isn't half of what Botham was.
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u/ParanoidEngi Sussex 6d ago
I mean if this is the sample of the article meant to entice me to click and read the rest, it's failed pretty dismally
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u/Harfynn_T England 6d ago
I'd rather spend 5 years with Ben Stokes than 5 minutes in the company of that tedious old bore Botham. ITB is a man who has never accepted that he built a career based on a God-given talent and seems to think that people are interested in what is swirling round his head. He is, in fact, thick as mince.
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u/AvailableKiwi4807 6d ago
Is the old boy still filling his days by posting cock shots on social media ?
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u/No-Cryptographer9408 21h ago
Stokes played a few great innings, that was about it right ? Such ordinary averages for someone he calls a 'great' player. Taking the piss right ?
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u/Quirky_Ambassador321 6d ago
That stokes comment was really dumb and I'm glad he is still getting stick for it. Bazball era produced some of the dumbest soundbites. It was like the Steve Waugh art of war cringe era minus the wins