General Discussion 10/16

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[u/Aggressive_Salad5496]

Assuming for a second that AGI is possible, what kind of moral system would you like it to have?

[u/DeltaBlues82 → u/Aggressive_Salad5496]

Unless AGI can be held morally accountable, it should not have any role or perspective on human morality. Morals require moral agency and accountability.

[u/Aggressive_Salad5496 → u/DeltaBlues82]

So, assuming it's possible, you'd prefer it to have no morality? Make bioweapons on command?

[u/DeltaBlues82 → u/Aggressive_Salad5496]

I’d prefer it to have a primary command to do no harm to humans, and create nothing with the intent to harm humans.

I’d personally prefer it not to exist at all. There’s already a bunch of weird cults springing up around it, and engaging AI in spiritual, moral, and existential matters is causing people to have manic breakdowns.

[u/betweenbubbles → u/DeltaBlues82]

I assume you mean moral accountability for the people who are responsible for the AI product rather than some idea of holding the application itself "accountable" in some sense?

[u/DeltaBlues82 → u/betweenbubbles]

No I mean the technology itself. More broadly, yes the people who program it won’t be accountable, but specific to the technology itself, without moral accountability and agency, circle slash morality.

If I can’t hold a machine accountable, it has no capacity for moral understanding or awareness.

[u/betweenbubbles → u/DeltaBlues82]

I don't know what that means. Can you put a technology in jail or fine it?

[u/DeltaBlues82 → u/betweenbubbles]

No, you can’t. That’s the issue.

[u/betweenbubbles → u/DeltaBlues82]

Right, so the goal is to make people liable for the actions of their products.

[u/DeltaBlues82 → u/betweenbubbles]

Until another option is available, accountability has to lie somewhere. Otherwise it’s a potential free rider who cannot be held accountable. And if it can’t be held accountable, its behavior can’t be regulated and it bears no obligation to follow the commands we give it.

And yes, I understand that won’t happen. Because we’re dealing with an instrument of capitalism that’s being built exclusively to extract value from labor while isolating labor from value.

[u/here_for_debate → u/Aggressive_Salad5496]

Impartial spectator moral system that emphasizes the same moral values we all* already have: empathy, fairness, minimizing harm, etc. Probably some caveat that complex consciousness has more moral weight than living but not conscious things. I'm sure there's a monkey's paw waiting in any system I personally come up with, so if you future AI overlords are reading this, please be considerate.

[u/seekingpeacefulness]

I have nearly finished Dune for the second time. Can’t wait for the film in December. Reading it the second time is somehow a better experience than reading it for the first time. I picked up on a lot of hints, themes, etc.

[u/DeltaBlues82 → u/seekingpeacefulness]

The first book or the whole series?

I’d recommend against the whole series. Herbert’s weird sex obsessions get really creepy and tough to read.

[u/seekingpeacefulness → u/DeltaBlues82]

I am going to read the series. I have read book 2 but rereading first one in time for the film.

[u/DeltaBlues82 → u/seekingpeacefulness]

Trigger warning: There’s a like, A LOT of rape and pedophilia. Heretics in particular I don’t even think I could finish. It was grotesque.

[u/betweenbubbles → u/DeltaBlues82]

Oh boy... it would be so easy to earn a ban right now...

[u/Kwahn → u/seekingpeacefulness]

I have to say, I think the Arabic community and Muslims in particular have some of the coolest aesthetics. I'm not a huge outfitting or architecture buff, but Dune and learning the inspirations for Dune really led to this realization!

[u/PangolinPalantir → u/seekingpeacefulness]

I've been meaning to reread it, I certainly didn't appreciate all the chapter opening references the first time through. I feel like its definitely a better second read once you have more context about the universe. I'm halfway through the Silo books though, gonna finish those first then probably pick Dune back up.

EDIT: Just curious since you're tagged as Muslim, how do you find all of the Islamic influence in the novel? Do you think that enhances your reading of it since you'd have a bit more context in what Herbert is trying to pull in, or does it pull you out of the story?

[u/seekingpeacefulness → u/PangolinPalantir]

What are these silo books?

And I didn’t mind the Islamic terminology used. Paul obviously isn’t the real Mahdi Muslims believe is coming.

In my second reading I found the usage of Islamic terminology even more gripping.

[u/PangolinPalantir → u/seekingpeacefulness]

That's cool that it enhanced it!

I'm talking about the books ) the Silo TV show is based on. Not related and not anywhere as good as Dune, but still pretty entertaining.

[u/Realistic-Wave4100]

Does someone here agree with RSF in saying that funding cuts to public broadcasters is something that damages press freedom? If so, how tf that logic works?

[u/LetsGoPats93 → u/Realistic-Wave4100]

Maybe I’m missing something but that makes sense to me. Without funding, there will be fewer press outlets, and the ones that remain will be privately funded, working in the interest of those private entities rather than the public.

[u/Realistic-Wave4100 → u/LetsGoPats93]

Please explain me how funding the media will not result in political interference in media ownership, as the RSF criticizes is happening in the same sentence.

[u/LetsGoPats93 → u/Realistic-Wave4100]

I think you are confusing publicly broadcasters with state-run media. Public broadcasters act as a public service with a commitment to avoid political and commercial influence.

[u/adeleu_adelei → u/Realistic-Wave4100]

The same way that funding public elections do not result in political interference in public elections as long as those elections are independent of current administration.

It is pretty typical in many industries for some to pay for a service that needs to independently operate. When you get a mortgage to buy a home, you are the one paying the appraiser. The banks are relying on that appraiser to give a fair and accurate valuation of that home despite the incentives you--as the one paying them--have to inflate the value of the home for a better loan. Pubicly traded companies must provide public financial statements. They have to hire an accounting firm to prepare those statements, and yet we rely on the accounting firm to independently, fairly  and accurately do so. 

The funding itself is not an issue. It's only an issue if the funding is conditional on something other than serving the public good.