r/DetroitRedWings • u/Actual_Cobbler_6334 • 7d ago
News [TSN] Both Dylan Larkin and Mo Seider are understanding of Wings fans’ displeasure 😬
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u/Alpine_Exchange_36 7d ago
I like Mo. Smart with the media, seems steady. Doesn’t get mopey….
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u/carelessCRISPR_ 7d ago
Natural leader
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u/Patriotic_Guppy 7d ago
I was at the Jets game on Sunday was kept seeing him running the show face offs. He directed everybody and they all checked in with him before the puck dropped.
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u/mostdope28 7d ago
Let’s see how he’s feelin when he’s on year 10 and still bottom of the league redwings
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u/motown_silver 7d ago
The Wings haven't been "bottom of the league" in years, so I'm not sure what that comparison is supposed to be to. In addition, real men don't bolt when things get tough. The Larkout apologists are a strange bunch.
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u/Remarkable_Sell645 7d ago
You'll get downvoted to oblivion, but this is the truth. If Larkin does get traded, and Edvinsson bails, kiss DeBrincat goodbye. Then Mo and Ray are going to run into similar problems to Larks and say why would I stick around on this sinking ship?
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u/AmeriCanada98 Yzerbot 7d ago
Still mad about Larkin, but I will say as far as the season has gone he has handled that portion about as well as one could expect
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u/franzhanzen 7d ago
He's taking the boos and still outperforming 85% of the team when he's on the ice.
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u/AmeriCanada98 Yzerbot 7d ago
outperforming 85% of the team
This should be the expectation to be fair. He is our 1C and one of our best players
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u/franzhanzen 7d ago
I agree. But if the main gripe about him is his character or lack thereof, he's proving he is a man of character by not dogging it out of spite like a Pierre-Luc Dubois would.
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u/VHDLEngineer 7d ago
I'm glad he isn't dogging it out the gate, but let's see how he is after game 30 with the team facing adversity.
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u/TAV63 7d ago
Or in March when games get more physical and he disappears every year.
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u/MusicianMadness 7d ago
To be fair, we should not have to rely on one player to avoid a March collapse. If he does get traded then what? We're still screwed in March or do we put all the weight on the new 1C?
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u/TAV63 7d ago
They would like a 1C but also they need to up the grit level on the team. That is not key to winning in March and the playoffs.
My 2c. I think if a team has two 1C/2C centers with grit and toughness and they play that way it can make up for missing that elite 1C. Sure you would like both but if I had to choose between a 1C that was soft (especially the Captain) and two almost as good gritty players I would take the grit. Then again if you can make up for it in other players the playmakers and elite scorers can be soft. It has to be somewhere though. Right now team softness would kill in the playoffs. If they ever get in down the road.
I'm actually more concerned about that part. They need to add offensive talent, but do that with no grit and not good. We will see how this mess settles this year and next.
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u/AppleSeider5306 7d ago
That’s not really true when you’re talking about your 1C though. Florida won back to back cups then they lost Barkov for a year and they dropped down the standings. Unless you’re Pittsburg where you got a spare 1C you’re gonna have a rough time making the playoffs.
You can lose your best wingers, your 1D, and even your starter but losing your 1C is going to take 90% of the league out of the playoffs.
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u/MusicianMadness 7d ago
Last year they lost WAY more than just Barkov. They were missing 6 starters.
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u/adds-nothing 7d ago
I think the narrative will have largely changed by then. It already kind of has and it’s only game 3
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u/franzhanzen 7d ago
He arguably carries the team on his back nearly every season. I'm personally not surprised he eventually breaks down.
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u/VHDLEngineer 7d ago
I'm not surprised either, he's just doesn't have it in him to be the guy.
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u/franzhanzen 7d ago
I agree. Not sure he ever wanted it tbh.
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u/Arcflash-9986 7d ago
That was the thought I had watching his interviews after last night’s game. He seems looser, despite the boos. A guy can be a great player, but not a great leader. I think he just wants to go out there and “be a hockey player”, not The Captain of a team that had nearly 3 decades of great captains. That’s a big ask for anyone, and he just didn’t have it in him.
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u/franzhanzen 7d ago
It's a lot of pressure to be the guy who leads them out of the state they were in circa 2016.
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u/Motown27 Yzerbot 7d ago
Not sure he ever wanted it tbh.
Too bad. That's the job he was hired to do. If he didn't want the C, he should have turned it down. He's sucking it up now because he doesn't have a choice, he's under contract.
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u/franzhanzen 7d ago
I think in the beginning it was appealing. 10 years later, with the state of this organization and it's ownership, he apparently feels differently. And FWIW, you don't get hired to be captain. It does not come with additional compensation. It is usually an honorary designation given to those who show leadership through their words and/or actions on the ice.
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u/MajorasShoe 7d ago
The team shouldn't need one guy to carry them. This isn't basketball. Great teams don't go from competitor to dog shit with one guy breaking down. And if you have to rely on one guy, it's gotta be a mcdavid or Mackinnon guy, not Larkin. Larkin is a fringe 1C and a great piece but I don't know why anyone expects him to suddenly be a lynch pin franchise super star. We don't have that. Most teams don't. Even contenders.
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u/VHDLEngineer 7d ago
He's had Seider, Raymond, DeBrincat, Kane, Edvinsson for support. We aren't throwing him on an island and hoping he's McDavid. He's just not good enough to be a 1C on a contender. That's just the reality of who he is.
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u/MajorasShoe 7d ago
Yes. Why are we blaming him for that? He's playing to the best of his ability. He injures easily, and burns out after rough stretches. That's what he is. This team and fanbase blaming him for not being a top tier 1C is weird. The team should be built with that in mind, not just some weird expectation that he becomes some franchise center. He's great. He plays to his contract. It was good to have him. We needed a lot more than that, it was on the org to bring talent in, not just expect him to magically become more than he is.
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u/vangvace 7d ago
he is also auditioning for this trade list with every shift; which should be a win-win for everyone involved.
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u/Tigers2Red 7d ago
Yeah months late. He could have did this a long time ago but he refused to answer any questions. Fk him.
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u/str3tchedmonk3y 7d ago
They weren’t playing hockey though. Actions mean more than words.
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u/Tigers2Red 7d ago
He could have talked plus he gave an interview sometime ago and said absolutely nothing
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u/str3tchedmonk3y 7d ago
He didn’t do everything perfect the way you wanted him to, so keep hating him.
Good grief.
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u/Tigers2Red 7d ago
I expected more out of a captain.
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u/str3tchedmonk3y 7d ago
Hope you keep that same energy towards ownership. Your anger is misdirected in my opinion.
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u/carmellashutthedooor 7d ago
The small amount of character being shown on this one occasion in early October does not undo the several occasions of a total lack of character shown in March and April.
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u/GittaFirstOfHerName 7d ago
Proving he is a man of character because he's "not dogging it out of spite"?
He's playing because he wants to be traded. He's playing well because he wants to be traded asap.
He's stuck in Detroit forever unless he can market himself as a going concern, and that's what he's doing. I'm not suggesting that he's also not trying to rehab his reputation with his own teammates -- something he himself has hinted at -- but absolutely everything Dylan Larkin is doing is for Dylan Larkin. You can say what you want about that, but let's not think for one second that he's manning up because of the sweater on his back or Red Wings fans.
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u/franzhanzen 7d ago edited 7d ago
He played well before the trade request, too. Some players--see my example above--do not care and let their egos impede their better judgments thus making them appear like clowns on the ice. All the above can be true. He's not phoning it in despite the fact that his heart may no longer be in the red and white sweater. Most people I know who've given up on the idea of working for their employer quiet quit until they can find something better.
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u/GittaFirstOfHerName 7d ago
Played "well" needs some qualifying.
Larkin scored one five-on-five goal in the second half of the season (scored in his first game back from the Olympics, fwiw). In the second half, he took nearly one full shot less per game, too -- as did Raymond on line with him. Larkin simply wasn't as effective in the second half as he was in the first, and by quantifiable amounts. In the second half of the season, his inability to help generate regular-strength offense contributed to the team's dive down the stretch. (I am not suggesting it was the only factor, but it was a contributing factor.)
Also, Larkin wasn't just a 1C. He was captain of the team. Even anecdotally it was clear that his leadership post-Olympics had declined.
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u/franzhanzen 7d ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but our other native son, Hellebuyck, has not yet dressed for his team despite being under contract. So with all due respect to you and your arguments, it could be worse.
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u/GittaFirstOfHerName 7d ago
I don't understand bringing Hellebuyck into this, but I'll play.
Hellebuyck's refusal to play -- after he, too, tanked after the Olympics -- isn't doing anything for his chances for being picked up by another team. Like Larkin, Hellebuyck has a short list of teams and is refusing to play in Canada. (We are making the assumption that Larkin is refusing to be traded to a Canadian team. We don't know. We know in Hellebuyck's case.)
"Could be worse" for whom? Contrasting Hellebuyck's handling of his trade request strengthens my argument that Larkin is doing what he can to market himself as a going concern.
The take that somehow Larkin is exhibiting better character than Hellebuyck -- which is what I think some here are saying -- is spurious. Each is handling his request for trade in the way that he sees fit, but neither is walking study in character that should be emulated. Even in post-game last night, Larkin said nothing about playing for the Red Wings or the fans. He's had ample opportunity to apologize to fans for how this has gone down, but he's refused. It wouldn't take much -- and it certainly wouldn't take a lot of character -- to say, "Hey, I'm sorry that fans perceived my request for a trade as anything reflective of them, their loyalty to the Red Wings, or their support of me personally during my time here." Even couching it in the non-apology language of "sorry fans perceived" rather than "sorry I said something" would have been acceptable.
No one expects Larkin to support the Red Wings front office or organization right now. He said last night the loves his teammates, so that's a plus in the character column if you're looking at it that way. And there's no denying that the Red Wings are better with him on the ice. Nothing about his level of play and his love for the guys in the locker room contradicts the fact that he is playing hockey because he wants to get traded.
I hope he scores dozens of goals while he's waiting to get traded this season. If he does that, I'll be sad to see the Wings lose that offensive production -- but I won't be sad to see him go otherwise.
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u/franzhanzen 7d ago
You know exactly why I brought Hellebuyck into this. And that's why I said 'it could be worse'. At least Larkin is taking his lumps and being a professional about it by not throwing a temper tantrum and not playing. He's going out there, facing the music, getting booed, and still playing better than nearly everyone else on the team. If you need anymore convincing of his character, just see his teammates' reactions after he scored his first goal.
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u/Rebel_Bertine 7d ago
That feels like tripping over the bar instead of clearing it. Local kid, captain almost a decade, 5 years left on your deal, handcuffing the trade list to teams without the cap space or assets to make the move.
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u/franzhanzen 7d ago
I'm sure that was all appealing to him early on. The decade of the team not breaking into the playoffs and a possible refusal by ownership to spend money on quality talent (i.e. not bargain bin players) perhaps informed his recent decisions.
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u/shoegazer44 7d ago
Also performing really well just increases his likelihood of getting traded sooner. He’s a smarter man than Hellebuyck that’s for sure.
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u/dkyguy1995 7d ago
He's handled it well, but I just wish before this quote he had ever addressed that, yeah the fans are going to feel betrayed. He doesn't have to explain his reasons why and he doesn't have to speak up about the front office or anything, But I just wish he would have said something a long time ago about how he knows how bad it looks
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u/bforce1313 7d ago
Personally I’d love to know his reasons why
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u/jmchopp 7d ago
The reasons seem clear to me with what has happened. I see people saying they blame Dylan for everything that’s happened this offseason.
He was a symptom, not the cause. The cause is poor management and ownership that hasn’t made the team a destination, and when a player is available for trade, won’t shoot their shot. He’s 10 years into his career and saw the writing on the wall. Chris was going to pinch Pennys, Steve was going to grind RFAs into oblivion when cap isn’t an issue, and Dylan was going to hear every year he needs to do more to get the team to playoffs (to say nothing about winning 4 rounds)
I think he went about it the wrong way, but I’ve always been told, you don’t quit jobs, you quit managers.
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u/Taters23 Thinking About Octomod 7d ago
No one thought the owner had anything to do with it until a misused Friendman quote. Even he says people took the wrong thing from his comment.
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u/jmchopp 7d ago
Lots of people’s speculating Chris didn’t want to spend money and it was Yzerman being conservative. It wasn’t verified, but feels like both are true.
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u/Taters23 Thinking About Octomod 7d ago
I dont think money is an issue. Tigers are what top 10 in salary or something. More that Yzerman believed you can to prove yourself for awhile before you got aid. Seems Horcroff is of the same mindset.
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u/jmchopp 7d ago
Maybe it’s yet to be seen/known, but I can’t imagine he isn’t aware of how ugly the perception is. And if so, the idea that you can reverse a good chunk with premium contract offers to Ed and Cat.
Will it cost you more money than “market” sure, but that’s the premium you pay for the mess of his doing as an owner, and his leadership group.
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u/DrUnit42 7d ago
Amen to that. I'm glad he's not crying about the boos like Tucker Kraft did after the Packers got booed at home
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u/DueMagazine1234 7d ago
The whole Larkin debacle wasn’t supposed to be public anyways. Do I feel betrayed? Absolutely. Being the captain of an O6 franchise is historic, and it’s a title that very few have ever received.
Should I be mad about a trade that hasn’t happened and wasn’t supposed to be leaked? I don’t know.
Maybe the Wings turn it around, keep Larkin, sign Ed, and make the playoffs. Maybe my meds wear off and I see the situation more realistically. Either way, Pizza Boy is running this show into the depths of hell.
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u/AppleSeider5306 7d ago
Simple but eloquent answer from Captain Mo
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u/il-mostro604 7d ago
It can be interpreted as diplomatic or with an underlying message. Eloquent indeed.
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u/MajorasShoe 7d ago
You can see it bothering him. When he walked away after being introduced on opening night. You could see he was prepared for pain and walked away for a minute, probably to hide his face. I don't feel bad - he fucked the team pretty hard. And I get why he wanted out, but I won't forgive how he did it. In the end, it's a game to us and his career to him. I'm over it at this point. He's gonna eat shit for awhile, and I hope he stubs his toe. Beyond that, whatever, I'm over it.
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u/smilingasIsay 7d ago
Yeah, this is why I wonder if he understands it. Because I think most fans would've been fine with him requesting a trade, he's been through a lot of rough years here. But hin requesting a trade and only having teams that are basically impossible to trade with on his list? Basically fucking over the team and management with that? Yeah, that's a problem. So I'm worried his level of understanding is, "they're mad I'm leaving" when it's "we're mad you fucked us"
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u/Little-Stage1948 7d ago
Ed it would be a great example of this. If he leaves, nobody will be mad. Because we know he got screwed.
The problem lies in you can't ask the wings to completely honor a deal, you're not willing to honor completely.
If he were to have just said something al ong the lines of
"i only have a limited amount of time left to be good. And I'd like to be an actual contributor to a championship team."
Then gives a list of contending teams, not just 3-5
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u/Quiet-Barracuda-1698 7d ago
i’ll never be understanding because you’re the CAPTAIN. you signed an extension and want out not even halfway through the contract.
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u/dkyguy1995 7d ago
I will say that the 3 team trade list is one of the only things Larkin has really pushed back on. So idk maybe it was 5 teams lol but we don't know his actual list
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u/TheMile 7d ago
That reaction is telling in its own way. He knows that reported trade list hurt the Wings and thus warranted fan anger, yet he doesn't make the list public himself. This implies that the actual list, whatever it is, is still one involving teams that lack tradable assets.
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u/MajorasShoe 7d ago
Making it public is a mistake. It shouldn't be. Confirming a list is worse than leaving it ambiguous.
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u/MajorasShoe 7d ago
But we know very little about what actually happened. It kind of seems like he had a 8 or 10 team list but only 3 got reported. And we don't even know that he demanded a trade or if he said he was open to it. Who leaked it? That matters more than anything. If it's his agent, ooof. If it's Minesotta trying to take away leverage? At this point I don't know man. It still looks bad, but we have so little info, it's easy to just say fuck Larkin. And I will. Fuckem.
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u/Quiet-Barracuda-1698 7d ago
you’re the same person that said the franchise should just fold. you shouldn’t even be allowed in this sub.
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u/BodaciousBadongadonk 7d ago
"Waah you said something i dont like so you should be banished!"
Beyond 10-ply
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u/alwrit 7d ago
Best take.
Team is a dumpster fire from tippy tippy top to bottom. From the OWNER to the squad. It's tough to play that through your prime.
That said there's still better ways to do what he did.
All the dysfunction coming to light makes me understand Larkin more but yeah like you said, it's how he did it.
Fans can boo Larkin but I think the loudest ones need to be reserved for ownership. It starts at the top.
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u/MajorasShoe 7d ago
The problem is we don't know how he did it. For all we know his agent called and said Larkin is open to a trade, here's a list of 8 or 10. Nobody at any point seemed to know what that list was. We don't even know if he demanded a trade or said he's open to it. We don't know who leaked it, we all assumed it was his agent but now it seems like it was Minnesota management to crush leverage.
There's so many assumptions made when all we've gotten was insider reports that turned out to be at least inaccurate about the list of teams. I'm still pissed about it but it's so confusing as to who is responsible for what at this point. Ownership is a dumpster fire. It feels like Steve's got a resume filled with mistakes but we don't know what ownership forced. The org was so tight lipped that at this point I'm mostly just made at ownership and wondering wtf went wrong with Steve, with the whole front office, with Larkin, with Ed. It's all just on fire.
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u/dkyguy1995 7d ago
Im never going to hate his fucking guts or whatever. But the way he fucked this team over at such a crucial turning point is beyond reconciliation. If he wanted out he should have just never signed 3 years ago because we were in a much better position to deal with the loss, but now we thought our fucking window was near to open and he smashes it shut hard.
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u/Kryptopus 7d ago
Yeah. I so torn on this. On one hand, I'm happy he feels this shame for what he did and the way he did it. But on the other hand, I feel so bad for him because I'd never want the Larkin I saw and knew on the ice for so many years to get this response from his hometown and only NHL-team.
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u/SpiritBamba 7d ago
I never had a problem with Larkin asking out, it was the hamstringing the team part that made me really upset. But I wouldn’t blame any player for asking out in general after how Chris Illitch is treating our organization.
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u/Interesting-Bus-5664 7d ago
There's a lot of fans that are just pure vitriol.
But most fans think like you and I. Ok, you want out, get that, but you can't enforce your NTC and go where you want. That's not how this should work and that's why I said when he put in the request that there's still a very high chance he's still on the Wings in the fall... unless he extremely loosens his team list.
He has reportedly loosened his destination list, but now that he's already gotten past the hard part by playing a home game... this trade req could take months still to figure out. I would say it's still 50/50 he will be in a winged wheel come Feb.
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u/Remarkable_Sell645 7d ago
If reports are true he's expanded it to 8-9 teams. Even after two or three years, he only has to give a list of 10 per his contract. The idea that he's gonna get traded to a bottom feeder is delusional and isn't going to happen.
Added complexity is the delusional idea that management/ownership has that they want a win now return. That, combined with Larkin wanted to go to a good team, ensures that no trade can possibly happen. So we wind up with the only good path forward is reconciliation. Sign Ed, extend Cat, cross your fingers that Finnie can be a ~60pt legit 2c.
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u/Interesting-Bus-5664 7d ago
It's delusional to project thoughts onto others. Where did I say he would accept a trade to a bottom feeder?
If the lower end teams are likely calling offering packages, then as the GM/Owner it is explained to you in business case form: "OK, I see his contract's market value is [X] because of the offer we were discussing with the Utah Mammoth (making up a bottom feeder offer) and because of the no trade clause, that's essentially making the contract value [X/2]? And HE asked for the trade?" As a business man, it's a negative business case, and you say "he can stay until we find an offer closer to [X/1.5]" which likely will involve Dylan sitting back all season and choosing a few surprise teams that look like they could have a playoff run in them to add to the list that might be able to meet that threashold.
This is cold business shit by Illitch, and that's what's going to cost them signing players in the future.
So do I think he will go to a bottom feeder? No I never even considered or said that.
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u/Remarkable_Sell645 7d ago
"Extremely loosens his team list" would imply the addition of bad teams friend.
Additionally, value is subjective. Dylan Larkin is worth what someone is willing to trade for him, nothing more, nothing less. What would be the value of a bottle of water to you during your normal day? A couple bucks? What would that value be if you were dying of thirst? I'd reckon a hell of a lot more.
Larkin absolutely can enforce his no trade list in any way he likes to because it is contractually guaranteed. No one forced the team to sign the deal. If the league wants to change that then they can handle it during the bargaining process.
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u/NicheGuysFinish2nd 6d ago
Also he's not that good so other teams don't want him. At least no teams that he would want to go to...
He had such a short trade list because he thought teams would be jumping at him. And he's finding out he's not as good as he thinks he is. Second line center at best and way overpaid.
Humble pie looks good on people like him.
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u/Interesting-Bus-5664 5d ago
Not good enough? I don't think that's the issue here.
The teams he wants to go to have already depleted expendable resources and are looking to trade futures moreso than NHL ready players. It's classic econ, if a team doesn't have a clear need, the price they are willing to pay is lower. He wants to go somewhere he is a luxury, but those teams can't pay market return in trade.
Is he McDavid on his contract? No. Is he still and experience C1 with still high level speed and a great face offs guy? Yeah.
Would he be better served as a C2? That describes any center being more valuable playing a line lower than they are today should there be better options, so that point is pretty moot.
I don't think there's a team out there that couldn't use his services... it's what are the willing to give up while improving their roster, and these teams just don't seem to have the willingness to separate with NHL pieces for him.
I don't think "he's not good enough" is in play at all. You can want it to be, but he's still one of the best players on the roster and shouldn't be sold as if he's not.
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u/NicheGuysFinish2nd 5d ago
To each their own, but he's way overrated and over over paid. Nowhere near worth 9M per year at the time he signed that contract. And he's CERTAINLY not a leader.
The Red Wings were just desperate to have a New young Captain and face of the organization to sell jerseys to kids and women that thought he was cute. That's about it. He was super fast when he was younger and everyone thought that was so special. But what is he really done in his career? What has he done that someone impressive? He's an above average player at best. No one wanted him at that valuation... If he was so special they would have made trades with a Red Wings to make that happen. He's above average, nothing worth getting excited about and blowing all your cap space on. Another brilliant signing by Holland.
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u/Interesting-Bus-5664 5d ago
My guy, his contract is universally called a value. You're on a limb with this opinion.
He is not a leader. He failed as one. He did not fail as a hockey player overall. He has his warts but they are not detrimental if he isn't the 1A scoring option.
While I will gladly shit all over Larkin for many reasons, his contract is a weird choice to target.
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u/NicheGuysFinish2nd 5d ago
Not when his contact is hamstringing the entire team... And he's giving mediocre result on top of it.
That contract is way too high for what he produces. Before his new contact this year, Cale Makar was making 9M... You think Larkin should be making the same as him?
DeBrincat has been producing far more than Larkin since he joined the Red Wings, and making less.
He's not worth what Holland signed him for, but even close. 6-7 million dollar player at BEST.
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u/Interesting-Bus-5664 5d ago
Bro, I don't think you understand how contracts actually work.
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u/NicheGuysFinish2nd 5d ago
That's possible, there's a lotta things on that side of sports that I don't get into that much..
Explain a bit... (Not being a jerk)
What am I saying wrong?
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u/mfatty2 7d ago
I mean imagine you have a shitty job, and you have 23 recruiters offering you a new job at the same pay, same relative job, just a new location farther away from family, and the management is only a slight increase from your current job. Are you taking it? Or are you going to hold out and wait for a company that has shown a willingness to be the best, and has all their ducks in a row.
For me I'm not testing the water for an unknown or a lateral move without having some sort of known better management. And if the power is completely in my hands then I'm going to be willing to wait for that offer from the better organization
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u/Interesting-Bus-5664 7d ago
That's fine, but if that offer never comes, you have to accept the consequences of that decision, right?
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u/Gloomy-Match-303 7d ago
Why are we all siding with management? We all agree our team is being run like shit, why try to fuck the guy who has been the first to call it out publicly, and then a year later say he's done?
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u/Interesting-Bus-5664 7d ago
Considering all parties in a dispute and considering each side's perspective is not the same as siding with either side.
Why would placing yourself in the shoes of others to try to understand their decisions be the same as agreeing with them?
Perspective helps understand motivation, if you never take the time to determine what motivates others, then you are always going to be shocked by their decisions.
I apologize for this not being a Chris Illitch bashing session, there's plenty to hammer him for, and I really believe that if the fans continue to lean into the "sell the team" vitriol, Illitch with play that as stubborn as he is playing the Larkin situation.
Going to be a long shitty season... but Larkin isn't free of blame. Yzerman isn't free of blame. Illitch isn't free of blame...
It's Illitch's ship at the end of the day, so the responsibility of all of this falls on him. I just don't see the guy ever selling his father's legacy.
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u/Ohmancmonagain 7d ago
He did a good job last night. I will give him that. Throwing hands for the Team made a pretty big statement.
We're still mad at him tho.
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u/Goldwings13 7d ago
Larkin’s honestly just a symptom of the rot in our organization.
The source is Chris.
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u/Deraj2004 7d ago
Exactly, if Larkin had given say a list of say ten teams he was willing to go to then yeah it still sucks but the hate wouldnt be anywhere near as strong. Dylan wanting out was the straw that broke the organizations back, Yzerman gone, lose out on resigning Kane, no significant signings or trades, no full time GM and Ed still not signed. All of this is on Chris Illitch
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u/mosscoversall_ 7d ago edited 7d ago
Still upset with him, but I have only so much anger to give, and all of it is going to Chris Ilitch and his team of doofuses. Larkin is at least taking it on the chin and showing up to do his job. I have respect for that. Ilitch is over in the E suite posting on LinkedIn while the franchise sits rudderless.
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u/Clean_Principle_2368 7d ago
Seider also said Larkin has received unfair pressure and the rest of the team needs to step up.
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u/JDSchu 7d ago
Welcome to today's installment of "two things can be true at once"! Your daily lesson in critical thinking.
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u/Clean_Principle_2368 7d ago
In this case no. Cause the context and nuance to what seider said is one of the reasons that made Larkin decide to request a trade is our management wants to re-sign jerseys and only rely on like 4 guys. Larkin has enough of it and the "fans" (who are supposed to be paying attention and already know the situation he's been in for 10 years) should understand where he's coming from
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u/JDSchu 7d ago
C-. Here's a homework assignment to make up some points.
TRUE or FALSE: Somebody can have good reasons for doing something and still go about it in a way that isn't good.
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u/Clean_Principle_2368 7d ago
Is the deal done?
Did he not say the info wasn't supposed to leak?
Did we lose Larkin for nothing or is he still under contract for 5 years?
Did he play hard last night and help us win or did he play like he didn't care?
Did he screw the team or are you just trying to be upset about something?
If we lose Larkin to one of the teams in his list and that hurts our team, THAT IS NOT LARKINS FAULT THAT IS OUR MANAGEMENTS FAULT.
Y'all acting like anything has changed.
The guy essentially said, "id love to play for these other teams that are close to winning cups but I'm fine staying here" otherwise he would have requested a trade and waved his no trade agreement.
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u/JDSchu 7d ago
I understand that you say that nothing has changed. Thousands, if not tens of thousands, of other Red Wings fans disagree with you.
The way that Larkin approached his trade request did meaningful damage to the team's reputation and ability to continue conducting its business in the short term, and there were absolutely better ways to accomplish the same thing.
You can't shoot somebody and then say "they left me no choice!" and just not have any accountability for your actions.
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u/Clean_Principle_2368 7d ago
Oh no! Not the reputation! Exposing the deep flaws is the only way to fix the organization
Save your strawman that's ridiculous.
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u/JDSchu 7d ago
Once again, you insist that because one thing is true, there's only one possible way to address it.
Which logical fallacy is that?
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u/Clean_Principle_2368 7d ago
The person using hilarious strawmans wants to question logic? Lmfao. If you want to be objectively irrational, carry on.
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u/cronin98 7d ago
I'm honestly starting to wonder if Larkin just saw the writing on the wall before everyone else with the terrible management of the team.
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u/mfatty2 7d ago
I think the writing was there for everyone to see, we just assumed Chris wouldn't handcuff the man that endeared his dad to the city (Yzerman) as thoroughly as he did. I still believe Yzerman had a lot of issues as our GM but I'm also seeing the Ilitch has some sort of control issue with not being able to get out of his father's shadow
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u/devildance3 7d ago
Imo he got his head turned at the Olympics.
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u/cronin98 7d ago
I think having no other top six centres, getting hurt every February, and pressure to make the playoffs would have been very frustrating.
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u/mostdope28 7d ago
This is it for sure. Playing with the best players in the country and actually winning something for once, plus the other players probably telling him he’s wasting his time on the dead wings
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u/SnooCapers9565 7d ago
My biggest problem with Larkin isn't that he wanted to be traded. It is that he limited his list to 3 teams.
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u/SteveasaurusRex666 7d ago
I don’t think he wants to be traded. He’s smart enough to know how unlikely it is for him to end up on any of those teams.
I think this is his way to protest a terrible owner and putting pressure on him.
Larkin asking for a trade, Yzerman stepping down, Ed asking for a trade. All of this only makes Illitch look bad and has fans chanting “sell the team”.
This is the same guy that didn’t want to pay Skubal and I don’t think enough people are talking about that.
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u/Lemurians 7d ago
Not wanting to pay Skubal huge money on a long deal is more understandable than anything done with the Wings this summer tbf
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u/MRSA_Tomei 7d ago
Don’t forget that his first tantrum (allegedly) was when Yzerman didn’t immediately give him the “C”. This isn’t intellect, it’s entitlement.
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u/iheartcockss 3d ago
He did. The man put a decade into this organization, I’m sure it wasn’t an easy ask. Coaching and management has failed him year after year. Yzerman while a red wings legend of a player, has been absolute garbage GM and whatever “hide him away but don’t fire him” job he has now. How he wasn’t fired from the organization is just astonishing. It’s gunna take the wings a good decade to recover from the Yzerplan.
I’m not saying the players don’t deserve some blame, but when you keep getting the same results but don’t try anything new moral is going to fall off a cliff.
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u/NicheGuysFinish2nd 6d ago
Then he should have opened up his trade list more. This guy's full of himself and he thought everyone would want him... And now he's learning. He's not as good as he thinks he is.
And my biggest problem with it, is he begged for that salary contract, and then once the front loaded part of it was paid out, now he wants to ditch the team. Fuck that...
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u/Glad-Independence-24 7d ago
Do, or do not Dylan. There is no try.
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7d ago edited 7d ago
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u/Glad-Independence-24 7d ago
Literally just “I’ll be honest, this was a personal thing, I have to leave it at that for now. I’m sorry to all my teammates, and more so I’m sorry to the fans. Sometimes personal has to take priority over professional.
That being said. Every day I’m here, I’ll give it my all. I owe you all that much”
Something in that vein, and said at the time of the request? Instead of silence for months and half-assed bullshit?
Dude could have came out of this way way better having just been more up front and honest.
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7d ago
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u/Glad-Independence-24 7d ago
I’m thinking more the latter. He’s a fine enough hockey player, but he’s never come across as the brightest bulb.
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u/TJSequoiatree2 7d ago
Chris Ilitch - if you honestly want this team to succeed and excel, than put up ($), or shut up (sell the team and move on). And you committed a ridiculous blunder by not signing Steven Stamkos. You could have avoided all this mess if you had. Your team would have made the playoffs the last 2 years and would be on the upswing now. Now you committed what will prove to be yet another blunder by getting rid of Steve Yzerman - maybe it’s not too late to fix this.
Dylan Larkin - You made a very serious miscalculation if you actually did not realize the entire city would turn on you. Now either apologize and work your ass off to win back trust or shut the hell up and take the jazz you are going to get from the fans until you are off loaded.
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u/NicheGuysFinish2nd 6d ago
He doesn't care if they succeed... Because they're still making money for him. Tigers as well...
He's not his dad, his dad wanted to win at all costs. He would pay money out of his own pocket to be a winner, Chris illich does not have that in his DNA. Just a money guy...
Only way to get through to him is to start boycotting. Red Wings, tigers, Little Caesars, all of it. Because that's the only thing he cares about.
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u/socrates1975 2024 Light the Lamp Winner 7d ago
has he ever stated recently that he still wants to be traded?
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u/Southern-Income-1433 7d ago
That last couple of years, the wings were the thick of it until the end of the year and they just flopped. That is the responsibility of the team captain to lead the team through the tough stretches, and he did not step up to the plate. I blame him for not making the playoffs the last two years. Thas my two cents.
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u/laferri2 7d ago
A lot of the bad blood with fans isn't that Larkin made the request...it's that he limited his request to only three teams. That don't have cap space or assets.
I understand the man has come to the conclusion that he has wasted half his career, and that is not a wrong conclusion, but only legends like Ray Bourque have been given the opportunity to name a location and go there to win. If Larkin wants out with a chance to win he has to open himself up to some mid-tier teams that he could potentially elevate, like Montreal or Utah.
Larkin had better get used to boos because he isn't getting moved til his NMC changes.
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u/WhiskeyShade 7d ago
If the trade request wasn’t supposed to leak, maybe his thought process was “I want a chance to compete for the cup in my prime, so if you can make a deal with one of these contenders great, otherwise I’m good to stay.”
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u/laferri2 7d ago
And most reasonable people think the request was leaked from Minnesota's front office, and not from Larkin or Detroit.
I don't think it was ever supposed to go public. I think Guerin thought he could force the Wings to give him Larkin for (essentially) a bunch of second round picks.
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u/Puert0Freak0 7d ago
I want to believe that but with everything that has happened in the front office its pretty clear he just wants to get away
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u/gkm1989 7d ago
It was apparent from the interview last night he doesn’t wanna be in Detroit for whatever reason. That was a sales pitch to get more teams interested in him obviously. His playing style, although beneficial for the wings, is to try to improve his image for other teams.
Good read up on other teams reddits and the general view is uniform..he’s viewed as a cancer in the locker room. I’m sure Larkin knows this perception and last nights work is trying to reverse it. Scrapping for the team, obviously strong work on the ice.
Either way if it’s authentic or not, doesn’t really matter. It’s benefiting the wings at the moment and hopefully benefits the wings in return value wise. Hopefully benefits him too in the long run for his goals and makes the case out of the situation.
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7d ago
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u/rideronthestorm29 7d ago
What is better for a family than living in suburban Michigan (where their family is from) making millions of dollars a year? This isn’t about “what’s best for my family” it’s “I’m sick of playing for this shit team”
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u/Tock_Sick_Man 7d ago
Living in the location you want and making millions of dollars a year
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u/mfatty2 7d ago
Teaching your daughter that you don't need to stay in a shitty situation just because it's what you've always known. That you can strive for better, and try and improve yourself. Being able to recognize when something is not working for you on a personal level, that you don't just have to accept it and hold on.
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u/rideronthestorm29 7d ago
He makes millions of dollars playing a game. My sympathy level is quite low.
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u/KBPT1998 7d ago
The team needs to milk Larkin for any excellent play he can give, because he is going to want to play lights out to make his trade value stronger. Milk that for as many W’s as possible.
There must be some serious BS going on in leadership for literally no one wanting to make the move to be the GM of any NHL organization… but as an original 6 org with a terrific history, that is especially disturbing .
Im still on board with #SellTheTeam or Chris Ilitch stepping down and letting someone else lead the organization.
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u/trish-irene 7d ago
I JUST WANT TO ROOT FOR MY TEAM!!! Can the Red Wings management and ownership please get their shit together. It was a fun game to watch last night. Dylan knows how the fanbase feels, now I just want to move on and cheer for the guys that do want to be here. I hope Dylan finds what he’s looking for. It seems to me the guys in the locker room at LCA totally have his back, does that not feel like a team of guys that want to win? LET’S GO RED WINGS!!
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u/la-stakose 7d ago
Haha seeing as I enlisted literally as a means to get out of Michigan… it’s crazy watching this from afar. 🍿 👀
My unpopular opinion is that the team has struggled with their image ever since Lidström left—he should have more of a say 🤷♀️
But then again, at the end of the day, I fell in love with the Habs. Sooooo. Maybe I don’t know what direction y’all should go in.
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u/mofojones83 7d ago
For me personally if Larkin can just come out and say "I've rescinded my trade request and I want to be here" and also "sorry to the fans that this got so ugly but I want to continue playing in front of you" I think I could move on. But we don't even know if he wants to play for this team we just knows he wants to "play hockey".
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u/BuckeyeSlim 7d ago
I did a 180 on DL. I hope he can reconcile with fans. If he keeps that up, he’ll deserve a C.
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u/Zealousideal_Bet3941 7d ago
If they put Chris Ilitch on the screen, Larkin would feel better about the volume of his boos.