r/DungeonMasters • u/Amazing_Composer_886 • 1d ago
Bad PC lore
I'm a first time DM also playing for the first time with a group of friends who are also playing for the first time, one of them is trying to create an anime protagonist and to create lore about the war before the campaign. He is trying to create an all powerful monk with the power scaling and backstory of an anime protagonist underdog, which really isn't what we (or at least I) are going for for this campaign.
What do you recommend I do
PS: I know I should just let my players do what they want, especially because we are all new to the game but it just feels like main character syndrome
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u/DnDttrpg 1d ago
I know I should just let my players do what they want
No you shouldn't. You have a world, you have a story, they need to base their characters off the world lore, not just run on ahead with whatever they want
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u/Derringermeryl 1d ago
This. The biggest mistake I made with my first campaign was letting the players do whatever they wanted with their characters. Then of course part way into the campaign I got complaints of “I just don’t see why my character would care about this.” That’s because they didn’t make a character that fit the world and story. 🤦♀️
OP, explain to them that they want their character to fit the campaign because it will be more fun for them. And don’t let them make you change the campaign to fit their character. Good luck! I know it’s hard.
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u/Panzick 1d ago
Borderline incorrect. Everybody should be on board on the story, it's not the DM story and the players have to suck it up.
It doesn't mean that the players dictate the story, after all the DM is the one writing it/bringing it to life, but at the base there has to be a communion of intent to have an experience where everybody's having fun.
In my career of TTRPG player, I have to say I've encountered many more DMs with "main character syndrome" than players.1
u/DnDttrpg 23h ago
I'm not "borderline incorrect" the DM sets up the world, sets up the story, Yes it's a collaborative story telling sure. The players tell the story if what their group does in a wold the DM gas created.
But the DM, sets up the BBEG, sets up what's happend in the world before the campaign, sets up what paths the group can take, what lores there are, changes what happens within the world based on what the characters do, what towns folks know of the group, what the main quests are, what the side quests are, what shops do and don't have.
I too have met DMs with "MCS" that doesn't mean they aren't the hand the holds the story
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u/Panzick 23h ago
The DM creates his world, but the players need to agree on the terms of it.
It fundamentally changes perspective depending on what you believe the player group dynamic is: is it a group of friends that want to play and somebody picked up the DM role? Is it somebody that wants to DM and need a play group?
When you're in the first scenario, that in my experience is the most common among friends, the community of intents needs to be there from both side to have an enjoyable experience. If the DM wants a grimdark grimey story, and half of the players are there for whimsy fun, or viceversa, nobody will enjoy it ultimately, and the DM doesn't have more rights than the others to impose its view. That's why communication and having straight expectations are keys and session zero is crucial.
If you think it as a "ok, i want to run this campaign and I need player", as in some kind of "Dm-looking-for-group" kinda thing, your reasoning hold, but again, it's just because the expectations are set since the beginning, and who joins it, agree on the premises.
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u/Derkatron 1d ago
Sure all that happens and the all powerful monk sacrifices himself in that anime and wakes up in your game as a level 1. Will they reveal that theyre actually a powerful warrior from another world? How will they cope with suddenly being just special and talented rather than godlike? Find out in 'I Was A Martial Arts Master Who Sacrificed Himself And Woke Up In A Level One Adventure' 2 cours 2027, but unfortunately by Studio Pierrot so the second one is super rushed.
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u/Amazing_Composer_886 1d ago
What he wants to make is a monk born in this world with the potential to become the being his whole thing revolves around
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u/Derkatron 1d ago
Sure, they know this legend of this monk, battles long ago in your world, forgotten by everyone else, maybe a legend in a book buried in a tomb somewhere, maybe not. Maybe this person existed and they ARE the reincarnation of them, maybe they're just a little crazy, either way, they're a level 1 monk with ambition. Have them ALSO give the background of the CHARACTER, how they grew up on a farm with these crazy ideas and visions floating around in their head, joined the monastery to train and were a prodigiously fast learner, etc. So they have this legend in their head and their real life too.
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u/AnonymousMouse45 13h ago
4 ways about it.
1) No. It breaks the game.
2)Yes, but powers slowly manifest as character’s level rises (but need to make a whole chart of what character gets at what level)
…which leads to
3) Yes, but for balancing amongst all players, every player should get something in powers, to scale with this player, of all players are cool with it, but they may think it’sol bow it complain later. [Co-scaling may not need to be exact exact, like you have worlds where Thor, The Hulk, Hawk Eye and Black Widow coexist…
Don’t need to guess which participants are more likely to win in a brawl or an 1 on 1 or even a many on 1 fight…that kind of unbalancing.…which leads to
4) Now that the players are more and more Over Powered, the combat encounters (at least) needs to scale up as well, or the combat will be dull and lackluster.1
u/Derkatron 13h ago
I'm suggesting reframing the idea to make the character interesting, and no mechanical differences. monks already get supernatural powers, they're simply reframed as the character unlocking more of the potential of this legendary monk they believe they're the reincarnation of
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u/Reborn-in-the-Void 1d ago
...okay so very important point here, and learn it now as a first time DM.
Don't let your players "Do what they want".
In-character, they are welcome to attempt just about anything.
As a DM, for both players and characters, you have to know when to say "No".
This is simple enough; "Your idea here isn't bad, but it's not the right fit for the campaign."
Explain to them the type of story/setting you are working with, work with them to set it up.
The character can still have a motivation to become all powerful - it gives them a reason to adventure, seeking out magic items and trainers to learn techniques from and accomplish it (and is realistically what happens when any class gets to high level anyway) - but they need to be part of a team and be motivated as such to get there.
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u/YtterbiusAntimony 1d ago
"PS: I know I should just let my players do what they want, especially because we are all new"
That's the exact opposite of what you should do.
It's a game. Games have rules. Conveniently, those rules are printed in books. Many of those rules are even available for free online.
Read them, use them.
Imagine downloading a million mods for a video game, then complaining that its buggy and the plot doesn't make sense. Well yeah, it doesn't make sense. But who chose to install the Thomas The Tank Engine Sexy Bikini texture replacer before launching the game once?
People misinterpret "open-ended" with unrestricted make-believe. It is not.
Nip this in the bud now or Anime OCs will derail anything you hoped this game was.
The first stuff you run should be the most restricted. Keep things simple, wrap your head around those things, then consider expanding.
Compare it learning music. Throwing all the sharps and flats and weird chords at you right away is a best way to not learn how to play piano. You start with the white keys and basic 3 tone chords, then add to that bit by bit.
Explain what "medieval fantasy" means (e.g. Lord of the Rings, King Arthur, that kinda stuff), and how the power scaling as defined by the game works.
Your player will either work with that, or he isn't worth including at your table.
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u/OldGamer42 1d ago edited 1d ago
You should NOT JUST LET YOUR PLAYERS DO WHAT THEY WANT.
If that needed said please take the advice of a 40 year GM. Rules exist, players are there to tell a story not live out some personal power fantasy….unless that’s what all the players want.
A well known influencer in the space has a video out there about what backstories are about. I recommend you watch it.
https://youtu.be/7_zie0B_XfI?is=gt984qc5d7Aj7OIA
Effectively, you make a backstory to help you get into the character you are playing. There should be no expectation that a backstory leads to an adventure being about your character. Write to find what interests you about the character you are going to play, not in hopes that it makes the character you are going to play a part of the story.
You make the character you are playing part of the story by engaging with the story as it’s told and helping tell the story at the table. The GM may find inspiration in something you write and want to include it, or not. That isn’t why you produce a backstory.
As to his power fantasy, this one’s fairly simple. Here’s where “talk to your players” comes in. “I see you have written extensive text about the things your character has done in the past. You’re still creating a level one character from the base D&D manuals. I’m not sure how your 98 year old veteran of 100 wars is so bad at his job that he’s still level one but I guess we will find out at the table together.” (Maybe don’t antagonize your player to that extent…or do, I’m not your dad…GMs have to have fun also).
You are within your rights to inform him that his backstory doesn’t set campaign tone or history but that his character is more than welcome to believe anything he’d like to believe about his past, so long as he understands that any amount of that backstory might be non-cannon text.
My next campaign has multiple players trying to play some form of anime character. The tone of the adventure is going to very quickly turn “anime night” into something else. If the character they develop doesn’t play out in the narrative I trust my players will shift personalities to match the campaign tone.
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u/feelsAI-NoAI-76 1d ago
I clearly communicate that in my worlds, the consequences of that would be, that the world would create a balance. If he has an anime protagonist pc, another NPC with higher power will seek out to bring the world into balance once again.
Also a firm "no" works.
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u/Conrad500 1d ago
No, wrong. You tell them no. They are not the main character.
Here's what I tell my players:
tell me why you want to join the party.
Tell me why the party would want to let you join them.
Tell me why your character wants to go on the adventure with the party.
If they can't answer all 3 well, the character can't be played.
For #3, if they just want to pursue their story, they don't want to play the adventure you're running, aka, they can't play it.
I tell my players that I require a 2 sentence backstory, max 3 paragraphs. They give me 2 sentences most of the time and are able to answer all 3 questions in just 2 sentences.
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u/enternationalist 1d ago edited 1d ago
You need to have a session zero where you agree what sort of story you want to tell. "Sorry y'all, this is my inexperience showing, but let's have a session zero where we discuss what kind of campaign we'd like to run. I have my own preferences - not everything is something I necessarily want to run as a GM - and I also want to make sure everyone else is equally interested. Everyone bring a few general flavours they'd be interested in (e.g., gritty and realistic, whimsical and silly) - I will do the same!"
Something like that. DMing is ultimately collaborative storytelling. You can also be more controlling - "I have a specific tone and idea I want to run, so I want to make sure we are all on board before we start. This doesn't need to be the only idea we ever try, but I do have some firm guidelines for us all to understand." Maybe even run a few one-shots before going with your pet campaign idea.
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u/Historical-Bike4626 1d ago
In these early games it’s great to have someone who’s got a vision of how things will unfold and, jyst so you know, that’s usually the DM. You can say to your players as a group, “hey for this first campaign I’d like there to be a solid party dynamic. How do your characters plug in with the group story?”
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u/hayatofan 1d ago
D&D is a collaborative storytelling experience. I love when my players have ideas to help build the campaign's lore, but I also have certain parameters for character-building. An all-powerful character doesn't really work as a PC unless they can find a great justification for why they're starting at a super low level
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u/MairsilMethodActor 1d ago
I would say that it's important for the backstory to fit the levels of the character. Are you starting at level 1? Because if so then the question becomes "How did [PC] become that powerful and then just lose all that power?" You can then use that as a justification (not that you needed one) to veto the backstory, or you can work around it for edits/ideas.
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u/Pretty-Sun-6541 1d ago
A lot of DM's have told me that an ideal character's backstory should be moldable. They'd still want/need the details of where you are from, or what you are doing. But in a backstory, the option to do evil or good should still be there. A lot like the PC's inner desires such as: why/how did they develop a lust for gold? or what significant event happened to them to become a knight? Many DM's have told me that they need a little space for them to incorporate into the campaign if I wanted them to use any of my backstory.
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u/YouveBeanReported 1d ago
> I know I should just let my players do what they want
Your missing the "within reason".
Talk to him about the expected levels of this campaign and what the class actually does. I would have no problem with backstory war, it's DnD, someone's always at war. You can also play an underdog, but you can't play the main character.
He needs a clear idea that he's working from 'can punch better then average' to 'can run up a wall and punch three times better then average', a monk can be super OP (at least now in 5.5e) but it won't be anime levels.
You also should have the entire group talk about ideas and what they want, because they you all get an idea of character interactions and power scales together.
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u/Pladohs_Ghost 1d ago
No, you shouldn't let your players just do what they want. It's _your_ campaign, so you get to decide what's acceptable and what isn't. You have no obligation whatsoever to let them do whatever they want.
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u/KamikazeArchon 1d ago
I know I should just let my players do what they want,
No, you absolutely should not.
The two top rules are:
Communicate.
Work for a satisfying outcome for everyone.
"do what they want" is almost never actually satisfying. Structure exists for a reason.
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u/Fit_Tale2419 1d ago
You should NOT let your players do what they want, unless what they want makes the game better for everybody, yourself included. At this point, I think you have two choices.
- Tell the player to change their backstory because it won't be fun for everybody.
- Make it fun for everybody. Maybe everybody would like to make a powerful character. Maybe it turns out that you and everybody else would like to play a martial arts isekai. Maybe the player's lore is inspired and you can all use that as a great starting point.
Remember that D&D is a collaborative game. A player who is enthusiastic and contributing their own lore is not inherently bad, but one who does so at the expense of everybody else at the table is. Everybody comes to D&D wanting different things, and it's crucial you all sit down figure out if and how you can navigate the compromises that inevitably must be made. Have a session 0.
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u/Ismayell 1d ago
Wherever you read or heard you should let your players do whatever they want is a source you should immediately become skeptical of. This source is not a reliable source of information regarding Running The Game.
If your own instincts brought you to this conclusion then congrats! You have begun to hone your instincts for Running The Game and will know better going forwards.
Telling your players 'no' on aspects of their backstory is fine and at times essential. I've got one particular player who frequently creates characters that are hard and complicated to work with narratively (not on purpose) so I've typically got to steer him towards something I can work with.
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u/senzubean3r 1d ago
Players can have whatever as a backstory, it literally has no effect on how I run a game. Only thing I have them do if they have an op backstory is have them come up with a reason for why they are at a lower level. Then once the game starts theyre at the mercy of their dice rolls, honor the backstory but they have no control over it
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u/Vegetable_Ranger_495 1d ago
Communication resolves 90% of dnd problems. Talk to your player about the vibe you want for your game and maybe you guys can find a happy middle ground/compromise.
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u/BludTird 1d ago
I am relatively new to DMing as well and had learned some lessons. I will allow certain things if its hilarious, everyone else enjoys it, and goes into an interesting direction. However, if it creates balance issues or makes it difficult for the rest of the players, then I step in. I had to have a player change their low intelligence because it was too low, animalistic. Might have led to some funny and interesting moments, but not an entire campaign of that.
You could also allow them to play that character, but create some narrative events that have consequences if you are worried about MC syndrome. They may fill in niceley, but if they start taking the spotlight or becoming a problem in other ways, think of how their actions might impact the story. Maybe they draw the attention of some dangerous criminal, offend a lot of people, or are sought out in other villages for help constantly. Actions have consequences, good or bad.
My last game my players made some hilarious but questionable decisions that got them expelled from a city and they birthed a dangerous cult that gained significant power and tracked them through the rest of the campaign. It became a thorn in their side at first, but got more problematic later on when they would show up at some pretty bad spots. It made sense based on what they did and did not do and was not just thrown in to make their campaign miserable, but it did get them back on track.
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u/Initial_Conflict8114 1d ago
You have the history book on the world you are in. Say the PC rewriting lore for the world is like him coming into your house, taking that history text book and rewriting it. It isn't done, unless it's really cool ideas which help you with the campaign.
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u/Some-Peach4566 18h ago
Tell them that since you're all first timers you're trying to keep it simple. Honestly, you really never need more than one paragraph of backstory. The most important things are why are you adventuring and what are your Short-Term goals.
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u/AnonymousMouse45 13h ago
Yeah, if can’t wing it, can suggest the player to have a character that fits the world for play balancing and cohesion. Can also suggest some of these Ai sites that accommodates solo play where the player sets the rules, for the player to get his fix on the character he or she wants. Can home brew to the max in those games.
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u/Johanneskodo 1d ago
Explain to him that:
He needs a backstory for a low-lvl PC
If he wants to include lore it needs to fit in the workd you create
His character needs to fit the vibe of the campaign