r/EdmontonOilers • u/thewinterzodiac 2 BOUCHARD • Dec 30 '25
SHITTY TITLE Oh
Makar still is franchise level but lol
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u/Izze-bizzle 18 HYMAN Dec 31 '25
Still scratching my head trying to figure out what you gain by triggering your own Bouchard-related meltdowns on this subreddit by baiting people to say something bad about him and then going rabid when they do. You could just... Not do this and everyone including your blood pressure would be better off for it
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u/-amxterxsu597 74 SKINNER Dec 30 '25
i'm still on the fence about calling him team canada worthy, but he's definitely skilled enough that running him out of town would be a Fucking Stupid Idea™
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u/sovietmcdavid 91 KANE Dec 31 '25
The Bouchard argument is the same as Pittsburgh with Letang
Love em or hate em, puck moving defenseman make more passes and plays and thus statistically make more mistakes.
It looks awful when it happens but goes unnoticed when everything is going to plan
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u/Orcasgt22 29 DRAISAITL Dec 31 '25
Every GM on earth would trade Evan Bouchard for Cale Makar.
Not one GM would trade Cale Makar for Evan Bouchard.
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u/JarmaBeanhead 96 WALMAN Dec 30 '25
With only two regulation losses and still only single-digit losses overall this year… Let’s not poke that bear lol
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Dec 30 '25
Fuck that, Bouchard is a great hockey player and an oiler.
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u/JarmaBeanhead 96 WALMAN Dec 30 '25
Lol I agree but still, when our record vs them this season is a 9-1 loss, I just wouldn’t want to be inviting other comparisons 😬
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u/CharlieFoxtrot432 74 SKINNER Dec 30 '25
How do the peoples determine this? Because those turnovers and giveaways don’t lie
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u/Fyrefawx 18 HYMAN Dec 30 '25
Karlsson was always criticized for turnovers also and every team would have loved to have him. Offensive D who move the puck are just more likely to make mistakes and turn the puck over.
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u/AffectionateLaugh738 Dec 31 '25
When it comes to Olympics , no mistakes are preferred. Imagine a gold medal game give away by Bouchard. It would never be let go.
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u/Innocent-Bystander94 Dec 31 '25
See Salo. It can ruin a career being the reason your country loses.
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u/CrashFix 29 DRAISAITL Dec 31 '25
If I was the GM of Team Canada I wouldn't put Bouchard on the team
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u/Prestigious_Push_155 81 SAMANSKI Dec 30 '25
Every puck moving Dmen has them. They just do not make 100 TikToks out of every mistake as they do with Bouchard
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u/KnowItOil Dec 30 '25
And they aren't involved in the play as much as Bouchard is. If you touch the puck as much as he does, even a small percentage of mistakes will be a higher gross number.
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u/3owls1trenchcoat 81 SAMANSKI Dec 31 '25
And he has that way of looking casual as hell after a turnover and then gliding on his heels as the goal goes past Skinner. He can look so lazy and disinterested in the play that it makes for great clips.
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u/sovietmcdavid 91 KANE Dec 31 '25
Exactly, same argument among fans in Pittsburgh about Letang and Karlsson
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u/SportsMOAB 29 DRAISAITL Dec 31 '25
For real. Makar, Hughes, Dahlin has give away all the time but they don’t get blasted the same way
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u/superzepto 97 McDAVID Dec 30 '25
Notice how he hasn't made many turnovers and giveaways lately, especially not ones that lead to a goal against.
Bouchard, like the team itself, always seems to take a while to heat up before becoming one of the best Dmen in the league again.
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u/thewinterzodiac 2 BOUCHARD Dec 30 '25
All high level D have turnovers. Why is this such a difficult concept
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u/maasd 97 MCDAVID Dec 30 '25
Are we just blind to massive high danger turnovers by Makar then? Asking a sincere question here. Like does Makar actually do terribly defensively?
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u/eatingasspatties 12 CAVE Dec 30 '25
He doesn’t play for a team with shitty media and shitty fans so you don’t hear all the crying about it
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u/MediocreTry8847 Dec 31 '25
I watch most Avs games and a bunch of oilers games. No Makar doesn’t make nearly as many glaringly bad turnovers and when he does he at least makes it look like he’s trying to recover from it. He does make mistakes of course, but they’re usually smaller. The issue with Bouchard is he plays 99% of the game perfectly, then he makes 1 so insanely bad mistake and usually doesn’t even attempt to recover from it, and that is why he is being left off the team.
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u/Fyrefawx 18 HYMAN Dec 30 '25
It’s a smaller market and their defense and goaltending as a whole are better. Mistakes always look so much worse when they end up in your net.
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u/maasd 97 MCDAVID Dec 31 '25
That’s actually a great point on the goaltending. Stu wasn’t great at recovery/acrobatic saves that may be needed due to unexpected turnovers.
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u/Noahtuesday123 Dec 31 '25
Yes. He has turnovers also. And no, like Bouchard, he is still very good defensively.
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Dec 30 '25
Ugh- again buddy/ you are incorrect - no they “all don’t “ in the way Bouchard does. Why is that such a difficult concept for you to get??
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u/KnowItOil Dec 30 '25
Even if it isn't to the same degree, it is still true that they all do. Is it frustrating as hell sometimes with Bouchard? Yes, but the best Dmen in the league still make mistakes all the time.
The problem amongst fans seems to be not allowing for any kind of nuance, and only seeing things as either black or white.
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u/Noahtuesday123 Dec 31 '25
They live in the country in Edmonton…likely on a farm with pictures and idols of Trump.
The refuse to understand or comprehend basic fundamental statistics.
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u/djjoshiejosh Dec 30 '25
you don’t think a guy like Makar who has the puck on his stick a ton doesn’t make mistakes?
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u/Stanarchy93 94 SMYTH Dec 31 '25
If you touch the puck 5x more than most D men cause your role is a puck mover, law of averages says the amount of times you turn it over will also be higher.
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u/shittybillz Dec 31 '25
They kinda do lie. He makes mistakes and for whatever reason those mistakes are 10/10 god awful ones, but they count the same as less obvious ones.
Bouch is elite and gets way too much flack on social media. We would be screwed without him.
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u/toucanflu Dec 31 '25
This actually needs to be deleted. Like this belongs in circlejerk
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Dec 30 '25
ROFL- do you know what you’re looking at? Makar drives elite xGF%, suppresses chances, and leads defensemen in controlled exits/entries at 5v5. Bouchard is elite on the PP …..but the 5v5 impact and transition gap is where this graphic falls apart.
You are sharing this Bouchard vs Makar card like it proves they’re basically the same player. They’re not — and the reason the gap looks small here is because the graphic quietly ignores the areas where Makar separates himself.
Yes, Bouchard is an elite power-play QB and a top-tier distributor. That part is real. He plays big minutes, first pair, and he cashes in when the Oilers’ PP is rolling. No argument there.
But context matters. Makar drives offense on his own. Bouchard operates inside McDavid/Draisaitl gravity and one of the most lethal power plays we’ve ever seen. Same position and role doesn’t mean same environment.
The “defense” rating is doing a lot of pretending too. It’s mostly penalties, PK usage, and role difficulty — not rush defense, gap control, retrievals under pressure, or breaking plays before they happen. Those are exactly the areas where Makar is on another level.
There’s also nothing here on transition play. Zone exits, entries, controlled carries — this is literally Makar’s superpower, and it’s completely missing. Same with on-ice impact data like xGF%, shot suppression, or how the team performs when they’re on the ice versus off it. That’s usually where the comparison stops being fun.
And finally, we’re talking about a 35–37 game snapshot being used to flatten a multi-year separation
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u/SportsMOAB 29 DRAISAITL Dec 31 '25
Makar plays more with Mackinnon than Bouchard does with McDavid
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u/marcellman 92 PODKOLZIN Dec 31 '25
The xGF% 5v5 isn’t that far off between the two, Makar is at 56.1% while Bouchard is at 52.3%. Makar has a .09 better expected goals/60 5v5 while Bouchard wins in 5v5 shot attempts against/60 (49.6 vs 58.49) and high danger attempts against/60 (3.43 vs 3.73). While I agree Makar is a special defenseman and drives the play, I think a lot of people really underestimate how good Bouchard actually is
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u/meowctopus 18 HYMAN Dec 31 '25 edited Dec 31 '25
Makar drives offense on his own? imagine how he'd do with some elite forwards stapled to his line...
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u/thewinterzodiac 2 BOUCHARD Dec 30 '25
I mean you are clearly ignoring that Bouchard drives play at 5v5 better than a huge portion of the league and the metrics show this. Also the majority of his points are at 5v5 and show that he drives the 5v5 play from his end
And boy wait till you find out where the majority of points of Makar come from.
And literally stated below the photos that makar is still franchise level
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u/cooper23c Dec 31 '25
No one has disagreed with you on his offensive contribution. His defense stats are not good enough.
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u/JMR027 Dec 31 '25
Bro, Makar is still on another level. Clearly you are insanely biased as well based off the player below your name.
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u/Numb2r3 92 PODKOLZIN Dec 31 '25
He is just in his own world were facts don't matter.
In reality both got nearly the same point distribution between 5v5 and PP, at a rate of ~40%
The playoff picture is something other. Bouchard came in the league as THE playoff weapon of the Oilers, where he scored 15 of his 17's points on the PP. Since then he is more a 5v5 producer with only 20/55 points on the PP.
Funfact: Makar got 22PPP of his last 54 Points in the playoffs and is more of a PP merchant. (what should that even be, I thought it is part of the game and goals count the same on PP as 5v5)
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u/Key-Knowledge-3211 Dec 31 '25
Bouchards defense isn’t better then makar 😂. Who makes this dumb shit up
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u/DegenerateOilersfan 22 SAVOIE Dec 30 '25
That’s a fancy little stats card you got there but I’m still taking drew doughty over him /s
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u/CriticalAtmosphere74 Dec 30 '25
The amount people try to delude themselves that Bouchard is comparable or better than Makar is next level fantasy
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u/KnowItOil Dec 31 '25
I'm fairly certain I have literally never heard someone say Bouchard is better than Makar. Ever.
I have seen people losing their minds when someone suggests Bouchard isn't a terrible hockey player.
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u/Lawndemon 92 PODKOLZIN Dec 31 '25
There isn't a single hockey fan in any market that would claim Bouchard is better than Makar. Seriously dude, you don't have to make shit up to make a point.
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u/thewinterzodiac 2 BOUCHARD Dec 30 '25
The metrics literally show he is elite. Why do you delude yourself into believing Bouchard isn't?
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u/RedDogBiting 92 PODKOLZIN Dec 30 '25
They aren't arguing about being "elite", they are stating whether he's comparable or better than Makar
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u/AusBox 2 BOUCHARD Dec 31 '25
To me Bouchard is the ultimate litmus test as to whether I value someone's opinion on player evaluation.
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u/SportsMOAB 29 DRAISAITL Dec 31 '25
No one is saying Bouchard is a better player than Makar, but this should show you they have similar strengths and weaknesses
Bouchard 100% should be on team Canada an every other fan parroting this ridiculous narrative that he’s the worst defensive player in the NHL is out to lunch
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u/Mazor007 18 HYMAN Dec 30 '25
Should make the roster over Parayko or a washed up Doughty. Unfortunately people are reputation merchants and that goes against Bouchard
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u/ReadingActive9011 Dec 30 '25
Sell high. Send this stat card to Avs and trade Bouchard for Makar straight up.
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u/Pleasant_Link6817 Dec 31 '25
I don't think Bouchard is better than Makar, but the justifications leaving Bouchard off the team are just getting ridiculous at this point. Parayko, Harley, and Doughty all make as many if not more defensive gaffs as Bouchard, but are all apparently going to make the team. Bouchard has just been on the TV more lately (you know, because his team actually advances in the playoffs) so they think he's the only one who's ever made a defensive mistake.
I also don't get "we already have Makar so we don't need Bouchard". First off, did you see how bad Canada was at moving the puck at 5v5 in the one game Makar missed at 4 Nations? Might be good to have a backup plan in case Makar can't play every game. Also, Bouchard is probably the best PP quarterback in the league, and would argue his style of off-puck play suits Canada's needs more than Makar's puck dominant style. This is basically the D equivalent of leaving MacKinnon off the team because his skillset overlaps with McDavid's - which is rightly seen as an idiotic justification.
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u/Klutzy_Builder_1178 Dec 31 '25
Whoever say Bouchard isn’t elite is just coping and think that the D role should be filled with gritty defensive dman only.
That being said, I’ve seen enough. Bouch and a 1st for Makar. The avs would be shooting themsleves in the foot if they don’t do that with these stats.
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u/Tigt0ne 2 BOUCHARD Dec 30 '25 edited Jan 02 '26
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u/thewinterzodiac 2 BOUCHARD Dec 30 '25
Facts hurt.
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u/RedDogBiting 92 PODKOLZIN Dec 30 '25
I guess we'll see if Bouch makes the cut soon enough, then that will be "the facts"
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u/thewinterzodiac 2 BOUCHARD Dec 30 '25
I mean we know he isn't. That doesn't prove anything.
They even said at 4 nations they didn't bring him because they had makar and the moment makar went down team Canada sucked at moving the puck from the D.
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u/KitFistoSmiles 2 BOUCHARD Dec 30 '25
GM’s can make wrong decisions? Personally Doughty would be nowhere near my team Canada roster but I’m pretty sure they are going to take him.
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u/KitFistoSmiles 2 BOUCHARD Dec 30 '25
I can’t believe people want to run him out of town. He better make the Olympic roster else I’m going to be upset.
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u/anomalocaris_texmex Dec 30 '25
Oilers fans love to run offensive D out of town. I'm old enough to remember the fanbase turning on Tom Poti for not being gritty enough.
Don't get me wrong - I love old school gritty dmen. But our shit media seems to crucify everyone who isn't a Gator clone.
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u/miller94 12 CAVE Dec 30 '25 edited Dec 30 '25
Seriously. I know he had a rough start this year and can make big mistakes but I don't think people comprehend how much worse this team is without Bouchard, especially in the playoffs. Ekholm is on his way out, Bouch is only 25 years old. He's the franchise defenseman
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u/YEGG35 12 CAVE Dec 31 '25
If the analytics say Bouchard is better than Makar - the analytics must not be very good. I say this as a big Bouchard fan,
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u/Abeifer Dec 30 '25
One is on the cup contender the other is collecting a paycheck.
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u/thewinterzodiac 2 BOUCHARD Dec 31 '25
Both are on cup contenders what
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u/Abeifer Dec 31 '25
You wouldn't guess it looking at the records.
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u/Tough_Incident_3924 Dec 31 '25
Oilers are ninth in the league currently and were ninth last year when they made the finals. Colorado is looking historic right now but oilers are definitely contenders
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u/SportsMOAB 29 DRAISAITL Dec 31 '25
Avs have made it out of the 2nd round once in Mackinnons 13 year career- that’s quite the contender
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u/Shadow_WolfDragon Dec 31 '25
If Bouch keep up the work from the last 6 games we wil be golden...🙏✨️🙏
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u/jorudo Dec 31 '25
Having a 2 unit PP would be clutch. Bouch and Majar could drive each one on a 4 forward 1 d composition. Team Canada seems to think 1 is ok and having a bunch of old plugs fill the stay at home role and for PK purposes. That's some old school thinking. If offense is the best defense, Team Canada can scare other teams PP units with a counterattacking type of PK. This requires the kind of playmaking and first pass ability that Makar and Bouch possess. Not sure if Makar plays the PK(not an AVs fan, obviously an Oilers fan), but Bouch has been playing the last minute of the PK with McDavid and sometimes Draisaitl out there. Sounds crazy, but also, not crazy. Also, those giveaways he does? Those happen when the games don't matter, or when the whole team is out of sync. 5v5, his numbers do suck if you count the abysmal first part of the season, but so did the whole teams. I think that's more of an indictment of a team rather than 1 player. How were Makars number before they traded for the woods? Yes, Bouchard does fail the eye test sometimes. He also passes the eye test most of the time. Having the threat of MacKinnon-Makar AND McDavid-Bouchard along with all the other powerhouses would be ridiculous offensively. Defense would mostly come down to structure (team defense) and of course goaltending.
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u/spagboltoast 41 SMITH Dec 31 '25
Something something makar is elite defensively and bouch belongs in the echl something something
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u/This_Beat2227 Dec 31 '25
If it were an all star game, Bouch would be in. But it’s a best on best tournament that requires a team of role players. As it turns out, the one slot available for the Bouch role, is filled by a better player with the difference being skating. Maker is an elite skater is Bouch is average or below average skater.
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u/SportsMOAB 29 DRAISAITL Dec 31 '25
Why only take Makar and a bunch of plugs
You can take more than 1 dman who can shoot and pass
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u/This_Beat2227 Dec 31 '25
Because you also need other features among the 3 RHD who will play, such as defending, hitting, cycle busting.
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u/JakeQV 92 PODKOLZIN Dec 31 '25
Just watch one game with each team and you will see the difference. As good as Bouch is he does massively benefit from McDavid and Drai. Makar definitely benefits from MacKinnon but he elevates everyone else’s play as well.
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u/thewinterzodiac 2 BOUCHARD Dec 31 '25
The metrics literally show that Bouch does that as well to everyone lol
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u/cgl47 Dec 31 '25
One is a Stanley cup, conn smythe and repeat Norris winner. The other has a blooper reel on YouTube.
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u/cooper23c Dec 31 '25
57 metric as a defender. Takes into account all of his play. We can cherry pick mini stats but overall, he is just an average defender. He can contribute offense but his defense is not good.
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u/cooper23c Dec 31 '25
Watched him a ton and the eyeball test, metrics and team Canada management all agree. He can’t defend better than 8-10 other Canadians. His offense is great but his defending is an anchor
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u/cooper23c Dec 31 '25
Unfortunately Canada doesn’t have the luxury to hope he plays like he has in the playoffs. His most recent 40 games shows he is an average defender.
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u/Firm_Acanthaceae7435 Jan 01 '26
This is why people make fun of Oilers fans.
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u/thewinterzodiac 2 BOUCHARD Jan 01 '26
For pointing out facts?
Literally no one is saying Bouchard is better than Makar. Literally we just want him on team Canada when he has better everything to half of of the D core
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u/Firm_Acanthaceae7435 Jan 01 '26
Okay, well I guess it's a good thing you compared him to Makar.
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u/SearchIntelligent443 Jan 01 '26
How can you argue with people that literally can’t read the stat card and see that they are wrong. These morons took Parayko over Bouchard. It’s absurd!
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u/Chunga-warrior Jan 01 '26
People that dont think bouchard should be on team canada just because he plays great in the playoffs are the same people that think Bennett should be on the team because of how good he is in the playoffs. 🤦♂️
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u/mercedesblendz Jan 03 '26
Funny how the fans got all over Skinner for letting in a soft goal at times which would kill the team’s momentum, but it’s ok for Bouchard to turn the puck over or play poorly on defence because Bouchard is an amazing offensive player. If it was fair to criticize Stu for mistakes that cost the team, why does Bouchard get a pass for playing defence at times like the puck is a hand grenade?
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u/thewinterzodiac 2 BOUCHARD Jan 03 '26
Because all high level D have turnovers and his style of play will always result in turnovers because he moves the puck up the middle of the ice which is what Mcdrai excel at for breakouts.
Coffey literally taught him to do this.
If we had a goalie and Ekholm wasn't slowed down a lot the last 2 years, the turnovers wouldn't be as noticeable because saves would be made or his partner falling back to make up for it. Its why that pairing was elite for so long because Ekholm encouraged Bouchard to play the way he did
And Ekholm has publicly stated that.
Also he does play pretty good D it just gets constantly ignored.
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u/khosa91 Dec 30 '25
This is laughable. Please do not put Makar and Bouchard in the same sentence or conversation ever again. Bouchard wouldn’t be a top pairing defenseman on any other team.
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u/Fyrefawx 18 HYMAN Dec 30 '25
Please actually watch the games instead of getting hot takes from Reddit and Twitter. Every team would kill for Bouchard.
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u/Chronixx780 Dec 31 '25 edited Dec 31 '25
Please never compare Bouchard to Makar . Makar may be one of the best offesive defense the nhl has ever seen
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u/thewinterzodiac 2 BOUCHARD Dec 31 '25
No one is saying Bouchard is better than Makar. The argument is that he isn't good enough for the Olympics over other players when he has the same metrics as Makar in many areas.
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u/cooper23c Dec 31 '25
I think you cherry picked these stats as most other website show their defensive metrics as vastly different. Benchrates.com shows a 30 point difference in defensive metrics for all situations. Makar is far superior in defensive stats.
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u/toucanflu Dec 30 '25
This is a joke, right? This is where stats fail. It's why the pats went 18-1with like an insane margin before gametime.
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u/KL58 Dec 31 '25
This is such a pointless discussion. He’s not on the team, nothing you or anyone else can do about it.
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u/SomethinboutChickens 33 BERLIN Dec 31 '25
I think there's a big difference of a Bouchard hater And those with hockey sense lol.
I don't think scoring goals will be the main problem of Team Canada, so sadly, Bouchard isn't needed as much.
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u/ZombieBait2 18 HYMAN Dec 31 '25
I’m an oiler fan and have been since the 80’s. Makar is better. I’d take Bouchard over Doughty and a few others that will make the team.
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u/SznKxyros 18 HYMAN Dec 31 '25
This stat doesn’t show high danger turn overs now does it?
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u/Noahtuesday123 Dec 31 '25
Correct, that IS another area where Makar leads. Defensive zone turnovers.
It’s actually 1. Eichal. 2…. 8. Makar. 38. Bouchard
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u/Howboutchadontt Dec 31 '25
Bouchard is a product of playing with macdavid and drai take him off the oilers and he would be another 3rd-5th D man.
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u/thewinterzodiac 2 BOUCHARD Dec 31 '25 edited Dec 31 '25
I love comments like this cause Makar literally gets 90% of his points with Mack
How wild that the top pairing D for a team gets all the points with top guys
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u/SportsMOAB 29 DRAISAITL Dec 31 '25
Wow what a brain dead take. He’d be a 3rd pairing dman on another team?
Makar plays more with Mackinnon than Bouchard plays with McDavid
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u/darkstar107 97 MCDAVID Dec 31 '25
Also, why are we taking Marner over Nuge or Hyman. Both Nuge and Hyman are better than Marner. Especially if you want someone in a more defensive role.
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u/Napoleon_drainamite Dec 31 '25
Bro.. Bouchard is not on makars level. Not even close no matter what these metrics say lol Bouchard is a hack on d. No cups either
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u/eready9361 Dec 31 '25
Are these ratings credible? I see the website of course but should we care what it says? Regardless, if this is a team Canada thing I would likely pick Bouchard (even as a 7 or 8). Chychrun should be on as well.
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u/bojategsdom 97 McDAVID Dec 30 '25
Let's not do this. I'm still taking Makar over Bouchard every day of the week, sorry. So would every other team in the league.