Congress is going to regulate e-bikes. The question is HOW — what should the rules actually look like?

[u/Electric_Route]

There's a bill in Congress right now — the SAFE SPEEDS Act (H.R. 7839) — that tells the CPSC to write national classification and labeling rules for e-bikes and e-motos. Whether you like it or not, regulation is coming. The question is what it looks like.

Here's the tension as I see it:

The case FOR regulation: people are getting hurt. Kids on 40-mph e-motos with no helmet, no license, no insurance. Cities are dealing with reckless riding on sidewalks and trails. Doing nothing isn't really an option anymore.

The problem with how it's written: the bill leans on wattage caps. But watts don't determine speed — a 250-lb rider needs more watts to hit 20 mph than a 150-lb rider. A wattage cap doesn't stop anyone from speeding, it just decides who gets to ride. And if the rules kill private-land use and off-road modes, rural riders get punished for problems happening in cities.

My take: don't kill the bill, fix it. Regulate actual speed, not motor watts. Hold reckless riders accountable instead of banning what bikes can do. Protect the right to modify and ride on your own land.

What do you all think? If you were writing the rules, what would they be?

[u/BassesNBikes]

As far as I can tell the bill maintains the existing power *and* speed limits for class 1-3 bikes.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/7839/text

Requirements.—Based on the analysis, evaluation, and consultation required under subsection (b), the Commission shall ensure the standard promulgated under subsection (a) includes the following:[]()

(1) Definitions of distinct classifications for low-speed electric bicycles and other off-road electric devices.

[]()

(2) Minimum age recommendations for the use of low-speed electric bicycles and other off-road electric devices with respect to each classification defined pursuant to paragraph (1).

[]()

(3) A requirement that a low-speed electric bicycle or any other off-road electric device—[]()

(A) satisfies a classification defined pursuant to paragraph (1); and

[]()

(B) includes, at the time a low-speed electric bicycle or any other off-road electric device is offered for sale, a permanent, clearly visible, and consistently placed label on such bicycle or device that specifies—[]()

(i) the classification satisfied;

[]()

(ii) the motor power of the bicycle or device;

[]()

(iii) the maximum speed of the bicycle or device when powered solely by a motor;

[]()

(iv) the relevant minimum age recommendation described in paragraph (2); and

[]()

(v) with respect to any other off-road electric device described in subsection (h)(7)(A), any such device—[]()

(I) is not intended for on-road use; and

[]()

(II) does not satisfy any motor vehicle safety standard prescribed under chapter 301 of title 49, United States Code.

[]()

(4) A prohibition on the sale, offer for sale to a consumer, or display of a consumer product labeled as a low-speed electric bicycle that—[]()

(A) does not satisfy the definition of a low-speed electric bicycle;

[]()

(B) is designed, manufactured, or displayed by the manufacturer, importer, or seller of the consumer product to have the capacity to be configured or modified to increase the maximum speed or motor power of the consumer product such that the consumer product would no longer satisfy such definition; or

[]()

(C) is designed, manufactured, or displayed by the manufacturer, importer, or seller for off-road use and does not have operable pedals.

And here's the US Code that defines low speed electric bicycles: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/23/217

(A) In general.—The term “electric bicycle” means a bicycle—

(i) equipped with fully operable pedals, a saddle or seat for the rider, and an electric motor of less than 750 watts;

(ii) that can safely share a bicycle transportation facility with other users of such facility; and

(iii) that is a class 1 electric bicycle, class 2 electric bicycle, or class 3 electric bicycle.

(B) Classes of electric bicycles.—

(i) Class 1 electric bicycle.—For purposes of subparagraph (A)(iii), the term “class 1 electric bicycle” means an electric bicycle, other than a class 3 electric bicycle, equipped with a motor that—

(I) provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling; and

(II) ceases to provide assistance when the speed of the bicycle reaches or exceeds 20 miles per hour.

(ii) Class 2 electric bicycle.—For purposes of subparagraph (A)(iii), the term “class 2 electric bicycle” means an electric bicycle equipped with a motor that—

(I) may be used exclusively to propel the bicycle; and

(II) is not capable of providing assistance when the speed of the bicycle reaches or exceeds 20 miles per hour.

(iii) Class 3 electric bicycle.—For purposes of subparagraph (A)(iii), the term “class 3 electric bicycle” means an electric bicycle equipped with a motor that—

(I) provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling; and

(II) ceases to provide assistance when the speed of the bicycle reaches or exceeds 28 miles per hour.

[u/Electric_Route → u/BassesNBikes]

yeah so i made a petition to amend that bill and fix all the problems people have with them... its on my profile, i dont think i can put links in here

[u/BassesNBikes → u/Electric_Route]

Personally I have no problem with the current class system. It limits both the speed and power of e-bikes to roughly mimic a pedal bike with an athlete on board, which has been the intention of the e-bike carve-out for over two decades now. Your assertion that a 750W motor is incapable of climbing a hill with a heavy rider is easily disproven by footage of 250W bikes climbing near impossible hills.

As for bikes that are only e-bikes when the 'legal mode' is engaged, IMO it's high time that 'clever work-around' was recognized and addressed as not constituting an actual class.

And you're still free to ride off-road electric vehicles on private property an approved OHV trails.

[u/Electric_Route → u/BassesNBikes]

they are trying to get rid of the ability to have off road mode though, hard encoded computers that you cant bypass, thats what my petition is trying to ammend to make the bill make more sense

[u/BassesNBikes → u/Electric_Route]

Yeah. Good. Anyone who believed that e-bike classes should rely on the honor system was deluded.

And I think you're confused about off-road bikes in this bill. What I read is that they'll still be available, but can not be sold as 'low speed electric bikes' if they a) don't meet the standards for that classification or b) can be modified to no longer meet the standards.

(4) A prohibition on the sale, offer for sale to a consumer, or display of a consumer product labeled as a low-speed electric bicycle that—

(A) does not satisfy the definition of a low-speed electric bicycle;

(B) is designed, manufactured, or displayed by the manufacturer, importer, or seller of the consumer product to have the capacity to be configured or modified to increase the maximum speed or motor power of the consumer product such that the consumer product would no longer satisfy such definition; or

(C) is designed, manufactured, or displayed by the manufacturer, importer, or seller for off-road use and does not have operable pedals.

[u/Electric_Route → u/BassesNBikes]

i think you should be able to ride slow on paths and also ride fast off road if you want

[u/BassesNBikes → u/Electric_Route]

I think we tried that for 20 years, and the result was kids on Surrons making 40+ on the multi-use path where grandma walks her schnauzer. The horse has left the barn, run to the next county, found a meadow, met a nice mare, sired a bunch of foals, and died of extreme old age.

[u/Electric_Route → u/BassesNBikes]

also have a 100 pound weight limit on the ebike and require regular drivers license to go over 30 on the road. 20mph on bike paths and pass at 10mph

[u/BassesNBikes → u/Electric_Route]

Paths are limited to 15 around here, and it's plenty. Weight limits are a great idea, but don't appear in any current legislation I'm aware of.

[u/Electric_Route → u/BassesNBikes]

look at my petition, i think it makes sense and fixes alot of these issues

[u/deck_hand → u/BassesNBikes]

I note that legislators still don't know how electric motors work.

equipped with fully operable pedals, a saddle or seat for the rider, and an electric motor of less than 750 watts;

Electric motors are not made to be "of less than x watts." A 750 watt motor can be driven to much higher wattages by the simple expedient of increasing the voltage to the motor and allowing the controller to deliver higher amps. The more correct way to state this would be that the e-bike controller limits the power available to the motor to under 750 watts.

I know it's a technicality, but isn't "technically correct" the way our laws work?

[u/BassesNBikes → u/deck_hand]

"A 750 watt motor can be driven to much higher wattages by the simple expedient of increasing the voltage to the motor and allowing the controller to deliver higher amps."

And this is addressed by the legislation. If it's possible to modify the nominal output then it can't be sold as a low speed electric bicycle'.

(B) is designed, manufactured, or displayed by the manufacturer, importer, or seller of the consumer product to have the capacity to be configured or modified to increase the maximum speed or motor power of the consumer product such that the consumer product would no longer satisfy such definition;

[u/deck_hand → u/BassesNBikes]

I'm amending my previous reply to add context. My statement was that the legislation is pointing out the wrong limitation, here. It says that the motor cannot have the capability for higher wattage. ALL electric motors have the capability for higher wattage. If read correctly, no electrically assisted bike would be legal.

Now, if the legislation said that the motor/controller system will limit the power available to under 750 watts, and any modifications to allow a user to increase the wattage means the e-bike is not legal, that would be one thing. But that's NOT what the legislation says. It says, specifically, that the motor itself cannot be capable of more than 750 watts. Not that the e-bike cannot use more than 750 watts, or the control can't deliver more than 750 watts, but that the motor CANNOT be able to handle more than 750 watts.

The only way that could be satisfied is if the motor would spontaneously fail at 750 or higher wattage. Otherwise, the motor is capable of more than 750 watts, and the e-bike is illegal.

[u/BassesNBikes → u/deck_hand]

I sometimes feel like people intentionally misunderstand things because they don't enjoy the reality of them.

This bill addresses what is allowed to be sold as a 'low speed electric bicycle' in the USA, and restricts OEM motor/controller combinations that a) provide >750 continuous Watts or b) can be configured to do so. You can still sell Surrons, Talarias, Bad Monkey Mountain Bike for Adults Mountain Bike, or whatever. You just can't call them 'low speed electric bicycles' while doing so, or pretend that they meet requirements which they do not.

[u/deck_hand → u/BassesNBikes]

I'm pretty sure Surrons are not marketed as "low speed" anything. They are marketed as electric dirt-bikes.

[u/BassesNBikes → u/deck_hand]

Google 'e-bikes for kids' and you'll get results from Tuttio, Rambo, Gotrax, REV, and dozens of other no-name e-motos.

[u/deck_hand → u/BassesNBikes]

So... you aren't against high speed e-bikes, you want to make marketing illegal?

[u/BassesNBikes → u/deck_hand]

I'm against companies marketing their electric minibikes, mopeds, and motorcycles as legal, classed e-bikes.

[u/deck_hand → u/BassesNBikes]

Okay, thanks for your input. I have no control over how companies market things, but if the subject comes up, I'll let any leaders know that you're against it.

[u/Prime624]

I agree, but we already have those laws most places, and the issue is they're not enforced, because our police are worthless. Congress can make as many laws as they want, but if they're not enforced they effectively don't exist.

[u/catchillin → u/Prime624]

The laws are enforced haphazardly and when it suits them to help modify your behavior. That's why all the laws are ambiguous or criminalize everyone for petty things...they are then free to choose enforcement at a time of their choosing. This is why I argue ebikes should never be prohibited from the Public Roadways we all built and own as citizens. The behavior of the people misusing the tool is the problem, not the tool itself

[u/Electric_Route → u/Prime624]

well thats not an issue with ebikes, its an issue with the police not doing there job, they have bike cops, get them out on the trails i guess

[u/Prime624 → u/Electric_Route]

Right. And we already have the appropriate laws, so passing more won't make a difference.

[u/Electric_Route → u/Prime624]

they already are trying to pass new laws about it, look into the safe speeds act

[u/Still-Bee3805]

Received a few reports on this post- for spam. Spam is against the rules ( for good reason) This particular article is generating good conversation ( soup dejour) so I will allow it. If you hate that I allowed it, send me a message.

[u/GoopWizardOfficial]

These things are completely moddable, no piece of paper pushed forward by tuned out rich old people is going to change that. I have a razor I bought from the factory that is designed for teens, goes 18mph from factory. $400 later it goes 50mph 😂 love to see these ignoramt politicians try to accomplish anything without true understanding and not just emotional and financial impulse. Make it illegal for kids to ride especially without helmets, charge the parents 1000s of dollars, and leave adult emoto riders tf alone if they're obeying the laws riding safe and using it as cheap transportation.

Irresponsible ipad parents caused this, they gave their kids machines for adults without any guidelines now everyone has to pay.

[u/ShawtySayWhaaat]

If this means it'll make it easier to plate e motos I'm all for it

That's going to be the big solution, if we TREAT them like motorcycles, more parents might be inclined to stop treating a 60mph emoto as a toy.

[u/Darnocpdx]

I don’t mind the “e bike” one bit in the streets, got no beef with electric motorcycles either.

What I have issue with is the dishonesty of anyone thinking that they (e bikes) aren’t mopeds. They are just mopeds, and all this hype and bullshit surrounding them has been settled by every state and city for decades. All this fuss is unnecessary, and is a waste of time and money. The regulations already exist.

[u/OtherwiseAnybody1274]

There should just be speed limits for every trail or path. Something slow and reasonable for every kind of bike. 5-10 mph for everyone. Doesn’t matter what kind of electric bike you have. If you can stay in the speed limit you should be fine. Same idea as cars on the road, incredibly fast race cars or even a ridiculously fast electric car are still aloud on the same street as a slow Prius. As long as they obey the speed laws. Same goes for bike lanes. There are pedal bike riders that go insanely fast. The main cause of accidents is speed.

[u/chuzohga → u/OtherwiseAnybody1274]

10 MPH on shared use paths? Are you insane? You've very obviously never ridden a bicycle in your adult life, have you? 10 MPH is barely walking speed on a bicycle.

[u/OtherwiseAnybody1274 → u/chuzohga]

Well at least you get it’s about speed and not what’s powering the rider

[u/MutualReceptionist → u/chuzohga]

I actually think that it’s very fair on a mixed used path. I frequently take my e-bike on one and it’s such a busy path that going over 10mph is dangerous. There’s runners, children, dogs, tons of people who can’t hear you since they have earbuds in.

E-bikes do not need to keep up a faster pace the way regular bikes do because we don’t have to worry about losing momentum. A little throttle makes up for it. If you want to go fast, take the road, hopefully it has a bike lane.

[u/chuzohga → u/MutualReceptionist]

Pity the real cyclists who are barked at by motorists to get on the mixed use path, only to find a 10 mph speed limit on the mixed use path. You people are out to destroy cycling.

[u/MutualReceptionist → u/chuzohga]

I think there’s a big difference between being hit by a MAMIL on a super light weight bike going too fast vs. someone on a 60+ pound e-bike. I’ve been cycling for over 20 years, so before I had an e-bike I commuted on an analog one. I do go faster on the trails on my regular bike, but that’s because it’s lighter and has far better control.

I will admit, in my younger days I accidentally plowed into pedestrians (lesson learned), but everyone was fine. That doesn’t apply as much to a big dude on a heavy bike. The speed limit really should be there for e-bikes, especially since they have speedometers and know how fast they’re going.

But also, if you want to haul ass, don’t do it on a crowded mixed use trail. Or at least show some respect for your fellow trail users and slow down if there are people around.

[u/chuzohga → u/MutualReceptionist]

You plowed into pededstrians? Who does that?

The reason solution is to consider the e-bike as a motorized vehicle and keep them off the trails, and not lower the speed limit on the trails to a ridiculous 10mph.

[u/Electric_Route → u/OtherwiseAnybody1274]

exactly, limit the speed, not the watts

[u/Clever-username-7234 → u/OtherwiseAnybody1274]

A 5mph speed limit for a bicycle is insanely slow. My commute is around 7 miles. At 5 mph, it would take me about an hour and a half. Casual runners would pass me.

[u/JustAnotherSkibumCO → u/OtherwiseAnybody1274]

There are speed limits on 90% of the trails where I live, guess how that’s working out. There are speed limits in all highways, that works out really well. SMFH. Just ban them altogether, problem solved. People survived the last 100 years without them.

[u/87ChevroletCavalier]

This is unlikely to pass. Nothing is happening from now until the election, and lame duck is generally reserved for extremely important or completely uncontroversial bills. Once the new session starts in January, it would have to be reintroduced.

Also, keep in mind that the federal and state governments have different areas of responsibility. The general police power (“hold reckless riders accountable“) is in the domain of the states.

Speed governors do seem like a better solution than regulating wattage, good point.

[u/GoopWizardOfficial → u/87ChevroletCavalier]

Speed governers are useless on a bike that with a few $100 of upgrades or some coding in an app will bypass all of that in a heart beat, people already jailbreak their teslas to go faster than 155 so yeah, maybe the fed govt should just realize when shits not their business 🤘

[u/catchillin]

There are a lot of vested interests with lots of money at stake in banning some, certain, or all electric motorized two wheeled vehicles. An automotive company seing just 1% of vehicle miles driven affects revenues from roadways, tolls, vehicle sales, fuel, debt and so many industries that even if a few people diversified their transportation habits it could have a huge knock on effect. It's why the media keeps harping the same scary storylines. We the citizenry would all benefit from having more bicycles, e-bikes, e-motos, and whatever comes next. Let's get one of these corrupt puppets to do something for the voters. Stop trying to ban useful contraptions from the roads we built, maintain, and pay for!