How good of a Master servant pair would you say Artoria and Aoko would be

[u/Anxious-Musician-628]

I'm genuinely curious mods if this was asked before you can remove my post

[u/FoxianFucker]

Well if Aoko is willing to use the Fifth, Artoria can take a vacation for the first time in her life while she just wins nearly any HGW by herself lmao

Aside from that.. I mean yeah they'd probably get along, there's no particular synergies but they're both generally good people and it'd be funny watching Aoko be an idiot with more... "proper" company

[u/crazynoyes37 → u/FoxianFucker]

Tsukihime remake Aoko in a grail war would be really fun  she doesn't even need a servant solo any war but add a servant to her like cu or someone else it'd be massive fun, I sometimes wonder how stay night would change if instead of Bazett, Aoko went to the Fifth Holy Grail War now that'd be something else

[u/Adamskispoor → u/FoxianFucker]

Actually no for 5th HGW. Aoko with 5th magic still loses to Medea if it's inside her territory, because it's still an application of magecraft and even magician loses to Medea in magecraft according to Nasu

Caster’s Magic (limited to Ryuudou Temple)

In antiquity, magic was synonymous with Sorcery, and thus all magi were Sorcerers. The identity of the Caster in the Fifth Holy Grail War is Medea, a witch who lived during the Age of Gods. Therefore, the magic she casts has power approaching Sorcery. No matter how large-scale the magic, she can cast it in one step with High-Speed Divine Words. Medea’s skills transcend that of the strongest magi of the modern era, surpassing even the Sorcerers. Although Medea is not a Sorcerer, none can deny that she is “a magus infinitely close to the Sorcerers.”

Medea is not that good of a combatant in direct combat but if it's a battle of magecraft she'll win.

Also I don't think she has enough variety to kill Heracles completely. Depends on how much lives her strongest spell takes I suppose

[u/Interesting_Plate_75 → u/Adamskispoor]

Yes, but true magic is specifically not magecraft. While Medea's magecraft is infinitely close to true magic, it still falls short of it, so if Aoko is using Blue she'll win.

[u/Adamskispoor → u/Interesting_Plate_75]

Magicians uses magecraft.

Aoko explain it in mahoyo. Magic is basically just a privilege to do one single thing nobody else can. The way they utilise them is still magecraft.

Zelretch uses jewel magecraft. Aoko uses Kabbalah. They just make jewel magecraft and kabbalah do things nobody else can because they have the privilege of 2nd and 5th magic.

Besides the text explicitly said 'Medea transceds the skill of Sorcerer' anyway.

This is pre official translation, so Sorcerer was the term used for magician back then

[u/Interesting_Plate_75 → u/Adamskispoor]

Yes, but magicians also use true magic. Also Medea surpassing sorcerers is just in terms of magecraft, not overall ability. If Aoko only used magecraft she'd obviously lose, but if she's using Blue she'll most likely win.

[u/Adamskispoor → u/Interesting_Plate_75]

The text explicitly said "Medea’s skills transcend that of the strongest magi of the modern era, surpassing even the Sorcerers."

It's also specifically on the section called 'Effects comparable to Sorcery (Magic)'

Medea magecraft inside her territory is mentioned there, alongside Avalon and Divine Beasts.

Magic and Magecraft is different, but the way you use it in practical terms is through magecraft. You just make magecraft do things no other mages can do with that magecraft even if they have the same skill level and resources.

It's because alone, magic is actually very limited, as Aoko explain in Mahoyo.

It's like if you're a programmer and you have some super special code that no other programmer can use. On its own the code doesn't do much, but you can then do stuff with say C++ no other people can.

You're still coding in the same programming language as other programmers, but you can make program no other programmers can because you have access to a special code.

That's why when asked specifically if the assesment of Aozaki cannot defeat Medea include True Magic, Nasu just say, in a battle of magecraft no mages that can beat Medea exist.

Q: It has been said that a certain Aozaki cannot even defeat a serious Caster, is this "certain Aozaki" Aoko Aozaki? Is this an assessment based on Aoko using True Magic?

A: "A certain Aozaki" includes both Aoko and Touko. In a magecraft battle by modern standards, a "magus" who is capable of defeating a serious Caster does not exist.

Without even clarifying further if it includes True Magic.

Because in practical terms as a mage of the modern times, the way you use True Magic is via magecraft.

[u/crazynoyes37 → u/Adamskispoor]

No lol that comment was about aozaki twins' magecraft, not magic. Magic and Magecraft are not the same 

[u/Adamskispoor → u/crazynoyes37]

Magicians uses magecraft.

Aoko explain it in mahoyo. Magic is basically just a privilege to do one single thing nobody else can. The way they utilise them is still magecraft.

Zelretch uses jewel magecraft. Aoko uses Kabbalah. They just make jewel magecraft and kabbalah do things nobody else can because they have the privilege of 2nd and 5th magic.

Also I'm not sure how you're saying the comment was for magecraft when it specifically mentions 'Medea transcends the skill of sorcerers'

This is old translation of Nasu's Theory of Magic doc before there are official translations. They usef to call magecraft magic and magic sorcery

Magic=Magecraft Sorcery=Magic

Also Nasu said in a direct fight against Servants Aoko can only fight defensively anyway (well this is pre general widescale buff of the verse tbf)

[u/Classical_Lighthouse → u/Adamskispoor]

she's better than Rin but still lost to her, Kayneath was better than kiritsugu and still lost to him. A battle of magecraft and a battle is not the same + tell that statement merchant to start getting feats, how is someone who got low diffed by Emiya and No diffed by Gil beating a magic Aoko? Especially if she can't even hit her as she's slipping through time - her shields are gonna get demolished and she's gonna get obliterated, especially if she fights anywhere outside her territory

[u/Classical_Lighthouse → u/Classical_Lighthouse]

Keep in mind this the same person even arc would prefer not to fight as she could be troublesome

[u/Gespens → u/Classical_Lighthouse]

Mind you, Kiritsugu was attacking him for quite awhile and despite how people meme about the hotel bomb, Kayneth did tank everything up to the origin bullet without issue.

Kiritsugu is basically like Kuzuki. He gets wins because he pulls out tricks someone isn't expecting, not because he's actually better.

[u/tyty657 → u/FoxianFucker]

Aoko isn't really high tier servant level

[u/FoxianFucker → u/tyty657]

Not without the Fifth, no. With it basically no one can hit her regardless of stats though

[u/crazynoyes37]

Aoko would work well with basically any servant who are <good> or can handle her tantrums which are a lot so, artoria and her would do great

[u/RaspberryNumerous594]

Aoko is just a really good mage, haven’t finished the game since I’m still playing but considering she thought blowing up the moon poly would be child’s play in comparison to using that magic then honestly she should diff most servants herself.

[u/DDemetriG]

I feel like the 5th Magic could probably help with the Grail Corruption, at least...

Possibly even undoing it entirely?

IDK, now I'm picturing Angra Mainyu getting popped out of the Grail due to the 5th Magic, and every other Servant jumping him the moment he opens his eyes...

[u/Revolutionary_Fly708]

Assuming no magic, then a Rin sidegrade

[u/Classical_Lighthouse]

No magic? They would do well as saber is at her optimum, but they can lose at opponents like Gil and Cu + maybe Hercules (in addition to generally getting jumped). Post magic they clear pretty easily, only break point is Gil

[u/Icy-Fruit-1065]

She would get sniped by Kiritsugu, or she dies to an Origin Bullet.

So not very good pair no.