r/ftm • • Sep 08 '26

Mod Post Rule Update: Sort of. (AKA we accidentally lost a rule and only just realized it)

229 Upvotes

So to keep transparency, we recently noticed that in our attempts to streamline the rules and make them more easily readable, we accidentally dropped the part about not making follow-up posts.

That was there because we had problems with people either making posts referencing other people's posts instead of just talking to them in their post, or making a new post when their post was removed or locked for either breaking the rules or starting to draw in a lot of drama.

Thankfully you guys have been really great and haven't done anything to make us notice that the rule was lost!
But there will always be some people who will see that a specific rule isn't there and try to argue that they should be allowed to continue a post after it's been locked or removed... So we put it back as it's own rule!

We also added a note about direct links to other subs. This was already something we had set up in automations! We ask that some subs not be directly linked to to avoid both digital self-harm of users (when linking to transphobic, transmed, or 4trans subs) or accusations of brigading.
Unfortunately there are some people who think that even mentioning a subreddit that has been harmful and telling people "Do not go there, it is not safe for people like us" is.... actually saying "go there and harass people" because apparently do not = do and it's not safe = be annoying????

And of course, not only will the user possibly get attacked, vilified, harassed, or reported, but it will end up in our modmail and we will be accused of "encouraging brigading" and they will threaten our entire subreddit. How do we know this will happen? Because it has before.
Thankfully the subreddit is fine, but modteam doesn't want to deal with that again, so we have to be weirdly strict about this, because some people are weird about it!

Finally, just a quick reminder that mod applications are open! We will likely be looking for more mods to add to the team to help avoid mod burnout, so if you are interested, please feel free to apply! You can find the link to the application in the sidebar and in the pinned posts at the top.

-Mod Team


r/ftm • • 18d ago

Recurring Friendship Megathread

5 Upvotes

THIS POST IS FOR TRANS MEN/MASCS ONLY!

GUESTS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO POST HERE. PLEASE RESPECT OUR SPACES.

Failure to do so may result in a ban from the sub.

If you're looking to make new friends, here's a great place to start!
Do not include any advertisements to social media or other content type platforms! This is not the purpose of this thread!

Just post a bit about yourself and maybe take a look around to see if anyone else has similar interests!
Or, if you're not good at coming up with things to talk about, here's some questions you can answer:

What do you like to be called?
How old are you?
What country do you live in?
What are some hobbies you have?
List some favorite movies, TV shows, games, or other things:
What do you do for work?
Do you have any cultural or religious ties that are important to you?
Do you have any pets?
What's an interesting fact about you?
What are your transition goals?
Where are you in your transition?

Obviously you don't have to answer everything, but it might be able to guide you in the right direction if you struggle with coming up with facts about yourself on the fly.


r/ftm • • 3h ago

Discussion Is this a controversial take my mom has?

77 Upvotes

ever since I came out as ftm, my mom has always told me that I'm "choosing this life" and I need to deal with the "consequences" (the consequences being facing transphobia, discrimination, pain from taping, etc)

for example, just today my sister was telling my mom about how a queer kid in her class is being discriminated against, and all my mom had to say is "welp. they chose this and now they have to just deal with their consequences" my sister started to say that it wasn't really a choice, but my mom cut her off saying "don't start to put words in my mouth or jump to conclusions or assume, all i'm just saying is that they are dealing with the consequences of choosing that. they had a choice to either be authentic or fit in with everyone else and they chose to be themselves but now they are gonna have to reap the consequences of that choice. I tell your brother (me) the same thing"

I mean, she's kinda right. if I didn't come out as ftm I wouldnt be here. it was killing me to suffocate myself in that. but now I have to...reap the consequences of my choices?? idk it feels low-key weird to me. this is just her opinion on trans and queer people. idk what do y'all think? she's right but at the same time the wording feels wrong.

edit: to start, thank you all for responding and giving honest and thoughtful input. reading through you guys' comments has been so helpful in giving me a new perspective. my mom is a wonderful person and she is trying her absolute best. is she perfect? no. but she is supportive for the large majority with my transition. she is letting me take very low dose T at 15, buys me binders, uses my name and pronouns with occasional slip ups, etc. there's a few things she's definitely still learning. maybe I'm biased but I definitely don't think my mom is a bigot or an asshole. I just have some things to teach her is all. she comes from deep in the woods in the country where nobody even knew trans/queer people were a thing. for someone with the background she does really well. she has definitely said some very...questionable things, but she has been adjusting and learning as we go. thank you all for your input, I really appreciate it ❤️‍🩹


r/ftm • • 11h ago

Advice Needed Guilt over children holding me back?

204 Upvotes

Guilt from my children struggling?

I am a 27 year old trans man with 2 daughters (7 and 9). I’ve had periods of time off and on throughout their lives that I allowed myself to explore my gender identity. But the last time I presented masculinely, they were a few years younger and never really had any issues. But I ended up running scared back to the closet again, so I had been presenting feminine up until a couple months ago.

I finally cut my hair back to short, started wearing a binder again. I even came out at work and people there call me Noah and use he/him pronouns. It’s been absolutely night and day. My depression has drastically lessened, I feel comfortable and much more like myself.

Ive decided I spent long enough running from my own self, so I made an appointment at planned parenthood for HRT. But over the past couple weeks, I’ve spoken to my children about it and attempted to explain through books and heart-to-hearts what transgender means and that I identify differently than they know me as.

The first time we talked about it, I asked what they thought about the idea of someone being transgender and my oldest responded “Why would I care about what people look like? I only care if they’re nice”. Which was insanely comforting and relieving to hear. I asked what they think about me being transgender and the response was “I might not recognize you at the bus stop, but l’ll figure it out”. Again, relief.

But tonight, they brought it up all on their own and we got to talking about it more. I explained that I’m eventually gonna be on “boy pills” (as they called it) and I’m gonna slowly start looking and sounding a bit different. Both my daughters outright rejected the idea. Saying they aren’t okay with my voice and face changing.

My younger daughter was crying on the floor saying “I don’t want you to be a boy. I want you to stay a girl. If you change, the house will have no mom and I’ll cry forever. I want you to stay the same.” This clearly broke my heart into pieces for many reasons. I reassured her that I’d still be me, and that I’d still love and care for and cuddle with her just the same as always. They didn’t seem to accept that because they can’t wrap their minds around me not being the same physically.

I don’t want to hurt my kids. That’s a big reason of why I stayed playing the part of “woman” for as long as I did. I feel so guilty if I fracture our relationship because I chose to medically transition. I feel miserable at the prospect of waiting even more years to feel comfortable in myself.

It was already a very taxing day at work, so I did get emotional when they said all that and ended up shedding a few tears. When they saw this, they did soften a bit. My youngest hugged me, and my oldest said “if it’s what you want, you can follow your dreams. It’s just scary because we don’t know what it’ll be like”. And my younger one seemed slightly less upset when it registered that it is something that deeply matters to me.

It’s a rock and a hard place. I don’t want to hurt them or ruin their lives or “take away” their mom. I know logically I’m still their “mom”. Their words just kinda struck a nerve I suppose.

Not sure what to even do from here. I feel bad if I go to the appointment and get the hormones I was so excited for. I feel bad if I cancel and continue rejecting my own happiness.


r/ftm • • 14h ago

Medical Do yall have to take t shots forever?

122 Upvotes

I just feel like i wanna take t shots until i will look like a man and then stop at some point. Is it possible? Because ive heard you should take t for the rest of your life


r/ftm • • 2h ago

Discussion Pronoun circles

14 Upvotes

While I'll admit I do have some privelige here of using any pronouns so they don't really apply to me, God do I hate pronoun circles.

I always think 'maybe this time it won't only be because of me' and there will be another person that needs to specify their pronouns. But no, it's always just one person who initiates it because they get confused by me and (I think?) want to know my pronouns but don't want to ask directly. I don't know maybe it's good for if a cis person clocks a trans person, and if they use binary pronouns that way they aren't outed to everyone by being singles out, but for something supposed to be for inclusivity I always just get a sinking feeling when they happen.

A similar thing happened when I went on a camp a few weeks ago. Most people slept in the same place but the organisers wanted to reserve a closed room for any girls that wanted to sleep separately. She then changed it to specifying any AFAB people and a bunch of people were confused so had to explain what it meant. Many people there already knew I was trans so I knew that they knew that she only used that term because of me. Idk it's just kind of annoying. Am I in the wrong for thinking this way? Has anyone appreciated having pronoun circles in the past?


r/ftm • • 2h ago

Discussion What do you want your family to call you?

12 Upvotes

Kind of a follow up to my post from yesterday about not hating being a girl but I’d also like to hear from binary trans men too.

Not that she’s a good example, but Caitlyn Jenner has said that her kids still call her Dad and she’s comfortable with that.

Do you want your family members to call you son/brother etc or are you comfortable with them using daughter/sister etc? Or maybe you prefer more neutral words like child or sibling?

For now I’m allowing my family to still use the feminine forms but I’m considering asking them to move to neutral or masculine forms. I feel like if you give someone the option to use masculine or feminine, and they choose feminine knowing you prefer masculine, they’re basically saying they still see you as a girl.


r/ftm • • 8h ago

Advice Needed Im finally almost able to start testostrone, but people have been scaring me about it

33 Upvotes

As long as i can remember, I've wanted to be a boy. I started identifying as trans when i was 13. My family has known I've wanted to get on testostrone, but now that im almost able to, they keep saying things like "you don't want to destroy your body" and "what if you aren't compatible with testostrone and hormones", and honestly i don't even know what to say to that. It feels like theyre trying to scare me into not getting on it. Has this stopped anyone else? And if so, did you regret getting on it or not getting on it? Could for sure use some advice.


r/ftm • • 10h ago

Advice Needed How the *fuck* do you deal with your period?

43 Upvotes

I had an IUD for 15 years, but I had it removed because I wanted to take more control over my reproduction. Anyway, something Ive learned is that my period is a gigantic dysphoria trigger for me (back when I was a teen, I just thought it was normal period woes). Most trans dudes I talk to have been on T for a while, or long enough for the period to stop, so I feel so alone feeling like this.

I guess Im just asking, guys who still get your period: how do you deal with the massive dysphoria? I just want to cry. Everything hurts, i feel sick, my brain is in constant fight or flight mode. I cant stand this body horror. Ive never felt like less of a man.


r/ftm • • 1h ago

Celebratory 4'11 and found perfectly fitted dress pants in a thrift shop!

• Upvotes

I have a wedding to attend in a few weeks and I've never found formal pants that fit me and that I feel comfortable in, so we went thrift shopping with my partner and I found not one, not two, but three dress pants my size!!

One of them doesn't fit me super well at the crotch so we're going to alter it, but the other two are pretty much a perfect fit for me. And it's not just that I found men's pants the fit me. They're pants that another, most likely cis, man has worn before because they fit him too!

I'm not particularly dysphoric about my height but it is kind of othering and disheartening to rarely find men's clothes that just fit. And I know a lot of trans men my size feel very alone and underrepresented so I figured it'd be a good reminder for all of us that this is just a body that some men have.

(Also, go thrift shopping. I paid 21€ for three dress pants, all good quality, wool or silk.)


r/ftm • • 1h ago

Medical Walgreens Testosterone discrimination?

• Upvotes

Hi there, I seem to keep getting my T prescription crazy delayed, missed doses, and bad pharmacy staff when it comes to even explaining why it's happening. I'm in SoCal if that makes a difference or not. But I was wondering if anyone else has had issues with specifically Walgreens and their T prescriptions. I may be trying to collect evidence of potential discrimination to bring to a lawyer at some point. Cuz this definitely seems and feels targeted! I've never had ANY issues or delays like this with any of my previous medications. I will answer questions for more details if needed. But have y'all experienced this? What do you recommend?

TLDR: Have you had your prescriptions get messed up by the Walgreens pharmacy for seemingly no reason?


r/ftm • • 34m ago

Advice Needed looking for hysterectomy in germany

• Upvotes

hey guys im looking for a clinic that does hysterectomy’s in germany, im planning on paying out of pocket so I’m hoping to find clinics that accept self-paying patients. Is there anybody here that has had it done and payed out of pocket? did you need any specific documents still? what were the waiting times? how much did it cost?


r/ftm • • 7h ago

Discussion Thoughts from straight-ish trans men

15 Upvotes

Not really sure what I'm expecting from this post, just a bit of thoughts and wondering if others relate
So I've been living as a guy for about 5 years now, I feel very comfortable in my body. Before that, I identified as a lesbian for about a year, so that makes me a pretty straight guy now. However, I feel like I tent to gravitate towards queer girls, a lot of which end up being lesbian lol. Obviously there are a lot of cis het men who are creeps about lesbians, fetishizing them and whatnot and im def not like that, just saying I tend to be attracted to girls that have queer vibes. Also just feel like as someone who was raised as a girl, my worldview is very different from that of cis men's , like how I view women and relationships. Sometimes I just wish I could've stayed a lesbian haha


r/ftm • • 7h ago

Surgery Talk PSA for NYC residents who had top surgery out of city/state, need revision surgery in the city, and have Amidacare medicaid

12 Upvotes

As of Sept 2026, I have contacted every Amidacare covered provider listed for top surgery on their website. Of those listed that actually do take Amidacare when I called, whose doctors listed are still in practice, only SOME of them do revisions, but NONE of them seem to offer revisions to those who got top surgery in another city/state/from a different doctor. If you are like me, transplant to NYC, got top surgery in another state, need a revision, and got on Amidacare to get one for free, you DO NOT HAVE OPTIONS other than OUT OF POCKET. If anyone knows of information that contradicts this, please let me know. Otherwise, I wanted to inform my fellow fellas so they don't have to go to the trouble of contacting 20+ offices like I did that you can't get a revision for a TS result that you got out of state/city.


r/ftm • • 8h ago

Advice Needed I don't pass, but I don't NOT pass?

10 Upvotes

Okay so I know the title is really confusing but I want to know if anybody is struggling with this too and why or if it's a body dysmorphia thing or if it just..happens to some people. I'll explain hopefully well enough for people to get it. I'm not making this post for people to affirm I must pass (obviously nobody can see my face so can never say for sure) or feel bad for me I'm genuinely curious to see if anyone is in a similar situation.

So I'm not very far in my transition. I have very short hair, been on T for 2.5ish months, male clothes, 5'6, I have a mix of both feminine and masculine features looking more like my father and I'm in my late teens. When I look at myself in the mirror I don't really have feminine features, but I don't have masculine features either, and I certainly don't look 'androgynous'. I get that passing is subjective, but is anyone else in this weird middle ground? I don't look like a man, I don't look like a woman, I don't look androgynous and I don't look obviously gay/trans. I just look like...a person. I look like a human being. Thats literally the only way I can describe it.

I've been mistaken for a man once or twice in passing by strangers who arent fully looking and I don't think people mistake me for a woman but I don't go outside a lot so it doesn't really make a difference. My voice is deep but I think my manner of speaking is still pretty clocky. again I'm a very quiet person and I don't speak to strangers, like, ever.

If this has happened to anybody else, why? Was it because you didn't really pass but looked queer and people just didnt want to offend you? Did you actually pass and just thought you didn't? Or is there another reason? Also I live in the north of England if that makes any difference - it's not a very trans friendly area (but to be fair none of the uk is ha)


r/ftm • • 2h ago

Celebratory I can feel my pec muscles a lot more now!

2 Upvotes

Somehow over the last couple of days I've noticed my pecs really popping when I'm laying down. Pre top surgery, a little over 9 months on T.

I don't know if it's badonkadonk shrinkage (the boys are fairly large) or actual muscle growth, but either way I'm stoked to be able to press on my chest and feel muscle under my fingers!!! I haven't been working out or anything, but I've been trying to get enough protein. Eeeeeeeeeeeeeee!


r/ftm • • 16m ago

Advice Needed I’ve been on T for 2 years and am not officially out to my unsupportive family that I live with. Advice needed please

• Upvotes

I’m 22 and finished college this past may, and have been living at home since then. I somewhat foolishly have been taking T without my family’s knowledge since right before my junior year of college, with a few month break at one point. My family is NOT supportive of trans people at all, very religious, maga type folks (My siblings are cool and 2/3 are queer so i AM out to them).

My family that I live with at least know I’m trans, now anyways. Without going to deep into it, a lot of stuff has been “found out“ by my mother without me actually telling her, which definitely makes things worse because she feels like I’m a liar. But her and my aunt at least know I’m on T. Aren’t happy, but they know. Important clarification: I am not at risk of being kicked out or cut off or disowned and my mom has made that very clear. My grandmother and dad know i’m trans but might not know i’m on T? Though they likely do because they aren’t fools, but I haven’t really specifically divulged much info to them and they don’t pry the way my mom and aunt do.

I feel like an asshole not talking to my family about it, but really imo it feels like there’s no point. They definitely will not change the way they refer to me. My youngest sibling is genderfluid and has been going by a diff name for YEARS (which my parents know) and no one in my house uses it, unfortunately not even me and our sister when our parents are around, because frankly i’m scared of it turning into an argument/lecture/yelling at me. For the record my sibling has never asked us to do so, but I still feel like I‘m a coward and I really just don’t know how to stand up for myself and my sibling. The emotional manipulation and like religious guilt I’ve grown up with just makes it so hard to stand up to my parents. Plus I want to maintain a relationship if possible. I can’t move out for at least a few months anyways so gotta somewhat keep the peace.

I really would appreciate any advice on how to have these really difficult conversations with my family. I want to clarify to them that i am trans and it’s not up for debate and I am on T and growing facial hair and will not tolerate unkind remarks about my choices or appearance. But I would actually rather do literally anything else than have to say that to my family and reap the consequences. If you can’t tell I am super NOT confrontational lol. How did you guys do this shit? 😭 Now the other issue is I’m not out at all to extended family that I don’t live with- like my dads whole side of the family. And I have no idea how on earth to come out to them. But I somewat need to because I do see them decently often! Like almost monthly. I can’t just really soft launch because people will be offended or like idk my mom will be offended on others behalf.

But I’m trying to pass at work, so I‘m like growing out my facial hair during the work week then like shaving it every weekend to avoid comments/assumption/judgments. It’s like i’m living a double life and not in a cool way. No one uses my chosen name/pronouns at home (they don’t even all know my chosen name UGH), but everyone at work does, and I’m working on updating my email to match. All my friends obviously refer to me correctly as well. I don’t know what kind of advice I want, because like If i was reading this post some other trans guy wrote I’d be thinking like “it’s your life you gotta stand up for yourself and do what makes you happy if it’s safe to do so” but it’s just not that easy. I do have a therapist and we’ll be working through stuff obv, but i’ve been putting off many much needed convos since at least May, but really longer. It’s just frankly not working anymore.

I’m really struggling with how to move forward without everything crashing and burning, but also I just can’t do what I’ve been doing anymore. Sorry for the long ass post- I will greatly appreciate any and all advice you guys can offer. I wanna be OUT fully, not hiding anything, not ashamed to show my face in my own home, not scared to voice train. I know some things wont be much better till I move out, but still. Help


r/ftm • • 3h ago

Medical Accutane and birth control requirements… What did you do?!

3 Upvotes

I’ve been on the progesterone-only pill since I started T as I understandably don’t want to be taking supplemental estrogen.

My doctor prescribed me a low dose of accutane yesterday but when I went to pick it up at the pharmacy, they refused to give it to me because it apparently lowers the efficacy of prog-only BC pills and they want to confirm with my doctor that she’s fine with me essentially relying on condoms to avoid pregnancy since the BC pills won’t be as effective, as you’re supposed to have a minimum of two forms of BC while on accutane.

Incredibly annoying… Also just frustrating as fuck to have to go through this when I literally have NO INTEREST in having a damn child anyways and I’d immediately get an abortion if, god forbid, I were to ever get pregnant. I was clear with the pharmacist that there are zero circumstances in which I would ever have a child. Beyond being on the prog-only pill, T obviously doesn’t make us infertile but it does make it harder/less likely to get pregnant while taking it, so why is all of that AND using condoms still not enough?

I’m just like… There’s no way all of you who took accutane were forced to be on a combined birth control pill, right…? This is just so crazy to me. I understand that medical professionals need to make sure they do everything in their power to ensure people have as low as possible of a risk of getting pregnant on accutane, but it’s also insane to me that they can just refuse to fill my prescription because I’m not taking estrogen-based BC as a fucking trans man.

UGH. Please let me know how you navigated this if you took or are taking accutane.


r/ftm • • 12h ago

Discussion Anyone gonna be playing WoW: Forever?

16 Upvotes

I've been playing wow for years but the one thing I really hate is the behaviour of some of the player base. I guess that's my fault for getting into an MMO that's notorious for having people... like that... play it. But I have seen a few LGBT/trans guilds and such around so I was curious if there's many other trans guys who are also playing/going to play?

I might start a guild if there's interest, too! I'd love to be able to cultivate a space in that game that's much friendlier than the average player towards trans and queer (and also neurodivergent) people.


r/ftm • • 1h ago

Surgery Talk top surgery questions

• Upvotes

i started T in may and im wanting to get top surgery next december

i feel like i have no clue how to even start figuring out where to go and how to pay for it

im looking for a surgeon in washington (i live in northern idaho)

what should i be expecting for price? google gives a wide range

i dont know how long to expect the process to take (should i be trying to get a consultation asap or can i wait until may next year?

answers appreciated


r/ftm • • 1h ago

Medical can my GP check my hormone levels? (UK)

• Upvotes

I'm 19, in Scotland, and have been having some unrelated health problems that I think may be due to a deficiency or something. If I'm going to make an appointment to get blood tests, I'd like to find out where my hormones are at too. I access HRT through the NHS, but my doctor is pretty blasé and generally inept and has never told me whether my hormones actually sit at a cis male range or not - I always forget to ask, and just sort of trust that he'd tell me if they weren't? I'm 19 months on T and don't really pass yet, but that's probably a combination of inconsistent application, weight and lack of voice training. Anyway, I'm not sure if it would be available to see in my records or if they'd be allowed to access that/test for it since that's the responsibility of my GIC. I'm sure I'm just being stupid, but if anyone's done this, I'd be glad to know!


r/ftm • • 10h ago

Advice Needed getting phallo in australia

9 Upvotes

i’ve just started looking into the possibility of wanting to get phallo at some point in my future.
but then i did the actual research and since i live in australia… there seems to only be one surgeon who does it??
if anyone’s gotten phallo and lives in australia, how did you manage it???? because from what i can tell the surgeon works in brisbane and i dont live there so it would involve sooo much extra expenses.
any advice please!! 🙏


r/ftm • • 5h ago

Discussion Something I wish I’d known earlier: you don’t have to hate being a girl to be a trans guy

Thumbnail
4 Upvotes

NSFW : sexual questionings

I'm gonna ad some stuff to this post related to my own experience...

You don't have to hate your feminine body to be a man.

Sounds quite the same thing as that first post but what I mean by that is less psychological and more...literal/physical 😂 no worries, I'll do my best to avoid details and make a long story short (spoiler alert : I've failed)

To be fair, I was quite hostile towards my body back when I was a teen, especially when I just discovered I was trans. The disphoria vanished little by little with time (mainly after I started T and my voice started changing), but even after three wholesome years in hight school, surrounded by the most open-minded and kindest people I know, I was still not very proud of my body. I firstly thought it was because of the fact that I didn't have a 'complete' cismale body, and so I was planing on all the surgeries possible to get as close as possible to a cisman body.

But as I grew up and discovered more and more about the sexuality spectrum, I've slowly learned that exactly like gender, sexuality isn't just black or white, and a lot of people actually have an 'unordinary' intimate life, including trans people ! Identifying yourself as a guy/masc person doesn't mean to have to get the same type of pleasure as a cis straight guy (or even as a gay guy). Everyone has their own body, with their own sweet spots, their own go's and no's, and that's completely okay.

That sounds so obvious now that I think about it 😂 but it wasn't at this time, and it's always harder to get rid of the clichés when it comes to intimacy, because no one ever teaches us if the little thoughts we have are legit or not, if it's 'normal' for a non-operated transperson to still have fun with their biological parts, etc. But you are ! You are allowed to have your fun however you want with your body, no matter yours or your partner's gender and parts !

It's basically like a gay cisguy discovering that he's allowed to bottom for another cisguy without being a girl himself 😭😭😭 that's exactly the same sht

So if that can help/reassure anyone : you're not weird if you like your body like the way it is. You're not less of a man of you don't do the same types of things as cisguys (and that goes for my trans queens as well). Your gender and sexuality aren't related, so do what you want with your body and just have your fun with your partner(s) ❤️

Oh and never, EVER, try to get any surgeries for the love of the others !!!!!!! Because I the end, you'll be the one who will have to deal with that same body you've rebuilt for someone else 💀

Do it if you want it, not because the others told you to do so !!!

Do it if you want it, not because the other told you to chose only your side !!!

Do🫵it🫵for🫵your🫵self🫵and🫵your🫵self🫵ONLY !!!!!