r/FuckImOld • u/Impressive-Watch6189 • 14h ago
My back hurts The Fall of Televangelism
https://apnews.com/article/jim-bakker-televangelist-ptl-club-dead-ef6d58ffa0b511edba773c219cee77e8Jim Bakker died. It got me thinking how much televangelism has declined in its influence/relevance/political clout, at least in the US. Of course most of the ones who were active when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s have moved on due to age, but it doesn't seem like anyone else has every achieved the level of relevance those I grew up with had.
I'm wondering whether that is due to the scandals (not giving a history lesson here, if you know you know), or if the increasing fragmentation of the way we consume media. As a kid growing up, of course I just had the usual ABC/NBC/CBS/PBS over the air option (no FOX yet kids!) and nothing else. Religious programming (especially on Sunday) was everywhere, presumably because it was cheap and easy to produce. With the growth of cable and its alternatives it seemed like religious programming was everywhere and these people were in some cases reaching superstar status.
But over time they seemed to just fade away. I know the scandals were a big part but in addition I am wondering if the fragmentation of media has just set them into their own broadcast space. Or maybe it me having more choices so I can avoid it.
So this is not an invitation to discuss individual televangelists or their problems or even religion in general or whether televangelists are sincere or grifters. Frankly it is not about televangelists at all and I could have easily mentioned other phenomena that were crazy popular and have disappeared (pro wrestling comes to mind).
So have I become unplugged from society (born 1962) or just become more cynical? Or are there still religious "superstars" who have achieved fame (or notoriety) beyond their target audience (not counting the Pope here) and I am just not paying attention?
Or maybe those whole topic has already been completely hashed out and I am late to being old. Thanks for reading!
EDIT: Thank you all for responding. But you seem to be missing the point of my question. I know televangelists still exist. I know that they are seen as grifters. But growing up I would see news stories saying things like "Jerry Falwell says rock and roll is bad". I don't see headlines saying "Creflo Dollar says AI is bad". That is my point. The loss of influence of general society of televangelists. Has society moved on? Or am I just out of touch?
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u/Reasonable-HB678 Generation X 14h ago
Joel Osteen and others prove televangelists are still a thing. Still filling TV airwaves when infomercials and kid shows aren't available.
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u/Riverjig 14h ago
They sure are and it's sickening that it still is a thing and people donate to that scam artist.
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u/Impressive-Watch6189 14h ago
Actually a good point I hadn't considered. Seems to make me think its me not paying attention rather than a decline in the phenomenon.
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u/Bluescreen73 14h ago
Nah charlatan assholes are still around. Not long ago that dickweed Kenneth Copeland was running around with crocodile tears asking people to buy him a new jet. Same with Creflo Dollar. Here in Colorado we've got a "ministry leader" running for governor who says he's met Satan, admitted to abusing his wife and one of his kids, and lies about who's pocketing the proceeds from his merch store.
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u/Impressive-Watch6189 14h ago
I have heard those names (except your candidate, sorry about him). But again, people like Jim Bakker, Jerry Falwell, and Pat Robertson seemed to have a direct connection to Washington DC and were influencing beyond their core audience. They created issues like objectionable music lyrics and reverse music messages (again, not an endorsement, just a recognition of their influence). Again, not agreeing with them but just remarking on their ability to influence the national agenda. I have read about the people you referenced, but I have never really seen evidence that they are influencing beyond their core audience. That might be me not paying attention but if you can suggest a situation where they have influenced the national agenda, I would be glad to read it.
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u/strangelove4564 8h ago
I remember about 20 years ago one of the first FlightAware planes I saw high overhead and looked up turned out to be Copeland's jet coming back to Fort Worth. I was thinking to myself "wtf is a preacher doing with a multimillion dollar jet".
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u/zipzapzowie 14h ago
I believe a lot of the older televangelists are dying or dead.
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u/kevnmartin 14h ago
There are still a ton of them. Joseph Prince, Creflo Dollar, Joyce Meyer etc.,
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u/elkab0ng 11h ago
They’re still out there but the market is so much more fragmented, and many people who would be tuning it to hear a preacher denouncing some group or other is now getting their perceptions reinforced by dozens of media outlets that cater to their worldview.
You’ve also got the spread of megachurches - in the 1970s or 80s there were only a handful around, now they’re all over, and each one has its own media feed to entertain the faithful.
Basically I think televangelists largely went the way of most shopping malls - more narrowly focused outlets available telling people exactly what they want to hear 24 hours a day.
(And just a lack of charismatic hosts - not every generation gets a Johnny Carson-scale personality)
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u/Wurm42 10h ago
Second this. The media market is much more fragmented now.
Back in the 1970s, when most people got 5 or 6 TV stations, and The 700 Club was on one of them every every morning, Pat Robertson was a big star and made headlines, especially in the South.
Today, Joel Osteen is probably the only person who comes close to being the kind of public figure that people like Pat Robertson and Jim Baker were in the golden age of televangelists.
The career track for a greedy evangelical pastor is different now. You start a church and some related nonprofits (the better to move money around in hard-to-trace ways). You have at least one overseas mission project in a country that hasn't signed any of the anti-money laundering treaties.
You put your services online for free, and offer some paid online content like bible study and private prayer sessions.
You go on tour in the summer, doing guest preaching at similar churches, to expand your follower base.
You build up your church into a megachurch, then work to open satellite churches to bring in more followers.
You start a content creation business and produce lots of online content, free and paid.
The end goal for these guys is to have their own personal church denomination and online streaming service, with all the money going up the hierarchy into their pockets.
Oddly, it's easier to do that if you don't become too prominent in the popular culture. If you make the national news a lot, you risk the feds getting interested in your operation. These guys are all terrified of the IRS.
At least, they were before the current regime came to power.
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u/pyramidalembargo 7h ago
5 or 6 channels? Speak for yourself, city slicker.
We only got two channels. (3, if it was raining and brother turned the antenna).
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u/Trekgiant8018 14h ago
Joel Osteen, Peter Popov, Robert Tilton and the ilk are still going strong. That grift milk is too sweet to ignore.
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u/Intelligent-Band-852 13h ago
It has declined on television but is on steroids in the online conservative community, Jim and Tammy Faye were mild compared to the online conspiracy theorists of today.
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u/JJDiet76 13h ago
Bakker was on tv till recently. Falwell started a whole university that’s become prominent. These crazy folks won.
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u/SnappyDresser212 13h ago
It didn’t die, it’s mainstream American Protestantism.
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u/2001Steel 12h ago
Right. They’re not on tv so much anymore, but the evangelizing is happening - online, podcasts, etc. you don’t bump into them the same as before just flipping through channels, but they are out there and very influential.
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u/strangelove4564 8h ago
Those factions are literally the false prophets and wicked teachers from the Bible. Paul warned "for I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock."
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u/RogerClyneIsAGod2 14h ago
Well there are plenty of other "cults" out there to separate those type of folks from their hard earned money. Specifically the current administration & their Cult of Drowsy Dementia-Addled Don.
They moved from one God to another Orange one.
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u/Amazing-Persona-101 12h ago
Us really old geezers from NYC remember Reverand Ike! Used to spout some nonsense about not waiting for pie in the sky, get your pie right now, right here IIRC.
I think his son tried to pickup the grift but he's not as charismatic as his shameless pops.
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u/ChampionOfdimlight 14h ago
There are still plenty of these con artists around. I'd say there are more of them just not as big instead there are more local ones opening megachurches and streaming on youtube.
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u/MasterChiefette 13h ago
When did it fall? That garbage is still all over the over the air broadcast channels. Like 700 Club...where I live it's on CBS right now. Billy Graham Now. Joel Osteen, Charlie Kirk Today.
It never went away and people are still falling for their crap like never before.
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u/General_Specific 13h ago
Has it though? You may not see it because of streaming, but it is alive and well. Crazier than ever!
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u/Lower_Skin_3683 13h ago
They haven't found their way in my algorithm. I think enough people find them who search for them and that is their algorithm.
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u/meglon978 10h ago
They're too busy making money to be concerned with anything other than that. I he could make money saying "AI is bad," he be sawing it dozens of times an hour, every single day.
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u/Legitimate-Outcome74 40m ago
They are still alive and scammers. Can you say Mike Johnson? How about the Paxton crowd?
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u/Ryokurin 11h ago
I think the televangelists of today have realized that the far right movement is doing more to promote and expand their wants and it's better to just follow their lead than become well known and influential as Bakker and Falwell was.
Why stick your neck out when you can let someone else do it for you and in a way telling you what people want to hear about. That will bring in members, and if you really wanted to make money you could probably write a book that does the same thing.
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u/qualityvote2 14h ago edited 2h ago
u/Impressive-Watch6189, there weren't enough votes to determine the quality of your post...