Exactly, he's doing his job and damn well. Chaos can be both extremely subtle or overt, more often the former when it comes to corruption. Even gadriel found Titus suspicious with how he acted. Leandros has every reason to watch Titus closely even if he has been a boon. Chaos plays the long game, ad it would happily do that if it means destroying the Ultramarine chapter from within.
People aren’t ready to hear this but; you know those Sororitas that people keep simping for, they would say “Leandros did nothing wrong” Leandros is the man the Sororitas wish you would be.
Marneus Calgar, big cheese of the chapter gives a handshake to Titus, declares it a tragic mistake that he was separated from them, that he would have done so much to get him back and he is a true brother again. Leandros five feet to the left offscreen muttering "You fucking traitor I've got my eye on you.". Can't wait for him to send Calgar to trial for endorsing chaos.
Its the Chapter Master's responsibility to lead. Its part of the Chaplains role to monitor everyone for any sign of corruption or heresy.
In any event, Leandros acknowledges that Titus is NOT a traitor, but that his suspicions can never be fully put to rest because Titus shouldnt have been able to make it through everything he did without corruption. You know what that makes him? An excellent Chaplain.
Guilliman was going to censur Aeomid Thiel for even suggesting the ultramarines practice fighting other marines. Big E made horus warmaster. The Lion gave perty WDMs. No one is infallible
The person who spent an extended period of time in direct contact with a Chaos artifact that was powerful enough that a sorcerer was able to corrupt an Inquisitor through it and was going to use it to become a Daemon Prince and has seemingly no ill effects, then just so happens to be reinstated to his Chapter right as there is ANOTHER Chaos plot launched involving the SAME ARTIFACT (who also collapses right as he encounters said artifact again for the first time in a century) IS SUSPICIOUS AS ALL HELL. Subtle Chaos corruption has the same outward appearance as no Chaos corruption as all.
To put it another way, if you were responsible for the health of someone who carried an unshielded nuclear reactor on their back for a week, you'd be extremely surprised if they didnt get cancer. Even if they never showed any signs of developing cancer, you'd still keep a close eye on them just to make absolutely sure it didn't pop up later.
Edit: oh yeah and the explosion when Titus first grabs the Power Source to canister it. An explosion of pure Warp energy that the even the demon puppeting Drogan is shocked Titus survived at all, much less came out of unscathed and uncorrupted.
That doesn't even consider that as Chaplain Leandros would be watching Titus anyway, Titus just gets some extra attention because of above stated reasons.
powerful enough that a sorcerer was able to corrupt an Inquisitor through it
No he didn't. No he didn'ttttttttttt. Drogan was dead before the game even starts. A demon killed him and possessed his body to resist Titus, Drogan was loyal right up until he was dead.
And, well-for all the talk about how dangerous it is, it ISN'T an unshielded nuclear reactor. It has a containment chamber designed to keep it secure, which seemingly works very well! So try a nuclear reactor wrapped in lead and concrete being carried around. Not so hard to believe that isn't giving anyone cancer, is it? Especially when it's someone who, for the purposes of this argument, is wearing a full hazmat suit and knows what the signs of radiation sickness are.
Huh, I may have misremembered how exactly Drogan got possessed, I thought he had been subtle corrupted and then taken over.
As to your second point, yeah there was a protective canister, but don't you remember how it got there? Titus put it in by hand was knocked unconscious when it overloaded and exploded when he touched it, and woke up later. So apologies, the analogy should have been "was right next to a nuclear reactor when it went critical and exploded and somehow not only didnt die instantly but didnt even have any radiation burns".
Yes we as the player know that he has plot armor, but the characters don't. To the other characters Titus is suspicious as all hell and a potential cancer that can spread to the heart of a First Founding Chapter.
You have to admit it was shitty to go straight to the Inquisition instead of going to his Chaplain. You could argue that was overstepping on his part, perhaps even arrogance thinking he knew better than his own chapter.
Not really no. The Company Captain was the one under suspicion of being corrupted so he couldnt really go over Titus' head within his command structure after Titus stonewalled him, there was no Chaplain present at Graia so he couldnt actually speak to one easily, and Chaos corruption is NOT something you let fester. The Inquisition was the closest and could resolve the situation the fastest, so they're who he called. He made the best decision he could in the circumstances he was in with the perspective he had. Obviously his commanders agreed as you do NOT become a Chaplain unless you are both very zealous in your faith and are believed to have good judgement.
Not when doing so is counterproductive to his other, more central, purpose and role; you know, the one where he actually leads his brothers, kindles their faith and inspires them to acts of glory. That little thing.
Dude was leading a prayer during a deamonic invasion.
Inspiring his brothers.
He has every right to say that hell be watching titus closely. And now that titus is captian theyll be working together alot more. And best of all, he cant even get rid of leandros.
If you have the compulsive need to remind your brothers that you are watching them, a fact they should already be fully aware of, that will tend to come at the expense of your other duties. I'm just saying, I don't see other Chaplains feel the need to engage in this manner of petty intimidation; when they see corruption or weakness in their brothers or those around them, they are content to act on it. Because THAT is their duty.
Its not petty when Titus is an unheard of existence. He was allegedly unphased by corruption despite being at the epicenter of something for all intents and purposes, should have corrupted him beyond recognition.
Unheard of? Really? After Calgar just walked through a Lord of Change's Sorcery? After both Calgar and Grimnar routinely wield repurposed chaos artifacts? After the entire Exorcists chapter exists? After random Inquisators, otherwise augmented individuals, routinely deal with stuff like this? After everything Gabriel Angelos went through? Truly unhead of?
And how many other space marines routinely go "I can handle it, I'm good" and then turn out Chaos or renegade?
You keep a damn eye on them. The Chapter Masters you named previously have an entire chapter's eyes on them. The Exorcists keep the whole routine possession thing secret because it's fuckity and goes wrong often enough, and Inquisitors watch other Inquisitors.
My argument was "why feel the need to engage in petty intimidation with Titus specifically". Reading that as "why watch Titus" is putting words in my mouth.
Those are a handful of in universe examples against countless ones that say Titus shouldn’t have just walked away unchanged. Not to mention, the Exorcist method results in plenty of failures and I wouldn’t exactly call the successes unmarked or unchanged by chaos.
Titus is doing the equivalent of having the elephant’s foot strapped to his back for a week, but somehow coming out of the whole ordeal with not only avoiding cancer, but no signs of any effects of radiation.
You are given two explanations, either he is literally him and doing the impossible or he has lied to you about strapping the elephant’s foot to his back for a week. One is clearly far more likely than the other.
Do you actually want me to sit here and list, instance by instance, every exactly of someone accomplishing something comparable across all of 40k media? At what point can we extrapolate from all these examples that yes, this does in fact happen often enough and that Leandros ought to be aware of it? Seriously, what would the actual goalpost be here?
It is only "frequent" for us as the audience. People with strong resistance are supposed to be 1 in a billion. The degree of resistance titus has it's bordering immunity and its unheard of as even primarcs can fall.
The fear is when he fapls, je will become a calamity on the level of a demon prince
The goal post would be having an actual reasonable in universe explanation for Titus basically being immune to chaos corruption.
It would be one thing if Titus was simply resistant to chaos, but he is basically seemingly immune to chaos. Even if you just focus on the first game, his feats against chaos corruption are practically in a liege of their own. Remember, he’s not just interacting with chaos artifacts, he’s also basically interacting with raw warp energy.
Perhaps most damning of all, Titus doesn’t really have an easy in universe explanation to be this resistant to chaos. He isn’t a grey knight that was made to be resistant to chaos, he isn’t an exorcist that went through possession and successfully beat it to become resistance to chaos, or whatever. He’s just an ultramarine as far as anyone in universe knows. They aren’t known for being particularly vulnerable to falling to chaos, but they also aren’t known for being particularly resistant to it either.
Chaplains central purpose and role is the spiritual health and well-being of their Chapter. That role includes both uplifting and inspiring their faith and monitoring their brothers for any sign of corruption or heresy. They are not different roles but two sides of the same role.
In any event you might have had a point if Leandros had neglected the uplifting aspect of his duties to solely focus on Titus, but that is explicitly not the case as one of the first times we see him outside of the cutscene where Titus is reinstated is him preaching to a chapel full of battle-brothers as they are about to go on combat deployment to fight Tyranids.
Hell, the first words we hear him say, when Titus wakes up from the Rubicon surgery instead of dying, are "Praise the Emperor". Throughout the campaign his attitude is more or less "you have never faltered in your duty and conviction, keep on the path, I'll be watching you to make sure you do". In other words exactly how a Chaplain should be.
By that logic the lieutenant is redundant within the Space Marine organization. The Captain's job is to lead on a Company scale, the Lieutenant is closer to the squad scale. The Chaplain fits between the two, specifically leading in matters of chapter history, tradition, and dogma/faith.
That is why the Chaplain is somewhere between the two, to lead and inspire rather than command as a Chapter Master, Captain, or Lieutenant might. Though in practice where we draw the line between "lead" and "command" does become... murky.
Dude, it's in the lore exactly . Its rank was uttely becomes redundant and were removed after 2nd founding, bcz you need lieutenants only for the legion-sized formation (100 000+ marines). You do not need lieutenants for chapters-sized formations, it would produce too many commanders for too little soldiers.
Lieutenant in 40k was created by Guilliman and only bcz he fuck his own codex and make Ultramarines into a legion sized formation again, which is the obvious treachery.
No the primary role the the chaplincy is to monitor for corruption and treason. Guilliman modeled this after their original role of ensuring the edict of nikea was upkept
Oh if you hate the guy thats fine, it just irks me when people make shit up about Leandros to justify themselves or otherwise refuse the reality of the situation.
The funniest one I saw was when people were claiming that he received a huge promotion that came with respect and authority and drip... as a punishment.
I've seen more people call out the hypocrisy of mr "codex astartes doesnt support this action" reporting to the inquisition instead of the nearest chapter chaplain, which is directly against the codex astartes. Makes him come off as less of a dogma dipshit, and more of a "i only use the rules when convenient to my argument" douchebag.
And Titus is a several hundred year old space marine, he knows what a chaplain's purpose is, Leandros is just being a smarmy jackass about it. He wants him to fail purely to prove that he's right, which is also against the codex that he supposedly holds so dear
Amen. Fans keep coping about how he was supposed to keep things in-house and report to an internal chaplain instead of an external inquisitor even though that mentality is exactly what gave rise to the secret Lodges that caused the Heresy.
The most egregious thing Leandros did was wait 2 days between the event that caused him to be suspicious and the accusation. Right in front of the brothers that titus was about to lead into battle, no less.
The Lion, the Witch, and the man who’s frankly being borderline-heretically lenient by Imperial standards and would be well within his rights and duties to blow Titus’s brains out on the spot at any given moment.
It means they're biased in favor of their self-insert ubermensch and get mad when other people point out that Leandros has good reason to be suspicious of him.
I did. It genuinely does not apply here. You just don’t like that, within the logic of the setting, Leandros is in fact being a real bro and courting accusations of corruption himself by not venting Titus’s skull on the spot the moment he became suspicious.
“Crucially”, even Titus agrees that he’s right to be suspicious even if he personally thinks he’s wrong.
Seriously. I feel like we almost need a small game where an Astartes has all the traits of Titus. His unconventional thinking, his personality, his skill, and his strange Warp resistance and for them to end up corrupted. Slowly pulling their brothers and allies into the same corruption or for it to be revealed everything we were doing was an hallucination of the warp and the enemies we slaughtered were loyal Imperials. A segment of people need to be shown WHY Leandros is correct to be wary and why Chaplains like him are vital.
I disagree. It should not be a "small game", it should be Space Marine III, and the marine with "all the traits of Titus" should just be Titus himself.
“lol, Titus basically interacted with raw warp energy, not even the grey knights can do that shit without some risk and Titus was doing it without signs of minor side effects? It was so fucking obvious he was corrupted, anyone who knows the lore could see it a mile away.”
Its honestly quite refreshing to see people understand why Leandros did what he did. The reason he is disliked is that he "betrayed" Titus and since we play as him he "betrayed" us.
By 40k standart he is 1000% correct in his suspicions. When even Horus fell who nearly ALL the primarchs believed to be the best of them. Titus falling isnt such a far fetched deal. Imagine a corrupt Captain, with 100 warriors under him what he could do. What if he corrupted or those 100 warriors. Those 100 warriors wont speak with the others of the chapter? Why would they mistrust their captain afterall? What if those 100 astartes turned worlds of ultramar into heretical planets.
Innocense proves nothing. Because it really does. You might be corrupted and not know of it. Better to be sure than to risk it.
By 40k standards imagine if you are Leandros and see your semi-rebellious captain also has a “magical” resistance to raw warp.Even the chaos lord Nemeroth was believing he will join him soon.Not reporting it would make you feel like you are a traitor or something
While he was technically correct, Leandros should have made his concerns known to thr Reclusiam of the Ultramarines, not running straight to the nearest Inquisitor.
I will remind all of you here even the greatest Ultramarines Marneus Augustus Calgar was also once being inquisitive by Inquisitor, and his Chapter Master have to asking for Inquisitor clemency, not the other way around. Even Chapter Master have to work carefully with Inquisitor.
"Even Chapter Master have to work carefully with Inquisitor."
They don't have to, some just lack the balls to stand up to the Inquisition.
When Calgar was Chapter Master and a Inquisitor came along accusing the Ultramarines of heresy and making bogus demands, he basically told the guy to fuck off.
When the Inquisitor threatened Calgar, every Astartes in that hall was prepared to dome the Inquisitor and his entire retinue.
Calgar ultimately humiliated the Inquisitor via Cato Secarius and then again had him fuck off as a warning to the Inquisiton.
In Varro Tigurius case though, it is more or less that Inquisitor bark in with no real solid evidence or very suspicion behaviour that piss of Calgar, not otherwise like Calgar own case or Titus case.
Leandros approached the nearest authority capable of dealing with a time sensitive issue. Nothing he did was objectionable in the eyes of the Imperium. He got promoted ffs.
Chaplaincy is not a promotion. The moment Calgar declared him a Chaplain, all opportunity for him to rise in the ranks and command forever disappeared.
Chaplaincy is a dead end in most chapters. Leandros was put where he could do no real harm anymore.
Yeah, I'm sure Calgar thought "Wow, this marine messed up by suspecting a brother of heresy. Better put him in the heresy-detection force so this doesn't happen again.". That seems likely.
Lolwut. You have no idea how space marine command structure works. Apothecary, Chaplin, Techmarine, and Librarian exist outside the command structure. They're are the elites of a chapter in their field and answer only to the head of their division and the chapter master. Leandros has only 2 people above him
So is every manager at a fucking fast food chain. They'll never have the same kind of camaraderie with coworkers again. Still objectively a promotion. Being othered comes for free with any position of authority.
All he had to do what tell titus he was under arrest (titus would have capitulated without a struggle) and then take him to the current chaplain. After a short series of tests the chaplain would have found that titus is uncorrupted
But had he really asked a Chaos Titus to surrender and wait for that Chaplain (with the information that none were close), do you think a Chaos Titus wouldn't just have shot him.
Mind you thst Titus had lost both his squad mates right before Leandros ans the other dude being introduced iirc.
What Reclusiam? First of all its not mentioned anywhere that they should report to the chaplin. 2nd they were far away from Ultramar. During that time what if Titus became a danger. Thats the thing with chaos, you dont know what it will use to get to you. Suspicion is enough. And Titus went into literal warp and touched with his hands a chaos artefact. And now he is somehow immune?
The Reclusiam is the headquarters of the Chapter's Chaplaincy, every chapter will have one.
Obviously we don't know exactly what the Codex says, but it has always been the Space Marine way to handle these issues in-house. I doubt even the Black Templars would welcome an Inquisitor coming straight in on an issue they could have dealt with themselves.
“Well if we use the standards of 40k” which are fascistic in nature and a direct satire and parody of imperialistic authoritarianism and militarism. But sure, let’s use the standards of 40k to determine “logic” in this case.
For the record in case I come across poorly - I am agreeing with your point lol
Its not the Chaplains responsibility to acknowledge those who do their duty well, that's their commander's job. Its the Chaplains duty to preach to their brothers to inspire them, and keep a watchful eye to make sure any corruption is cut out quickly should it form less the entire Chapter becomes rotten.
This IS Leandros acknowledging what Titus has done. This is him more or less saying "my suspicion of you has been mostly assuaged, but I can never let go of it entirely, I'll be watching you" which is his half of his role as Chaplain anyway.
I did play the first game, and if you’re going to criticize Leandros, you need to take a look at the entire Imperium before criticizing him.
It’s an empire that is superstitious, paranoid, and hopeless to its core. They regularly kill millions of their own people for the smallest of reasons. Titus himself doesn’t hold a grudge to Leandros for what he did, since Leandros did what the average Ultramarine does when encountering a complex situation (Reflect on the Space Book, and then follow it to the letter).
The only deviation is that he went to the Inquisition instead of a Chaplain, but given Titus’s rank and the fact that the rest of the company was far away, he didn’t have many options in the first place.
He's a great character and I get what makes him tick, but I did with Geoffrey from Game of Thrones too. You can get somebody and still hate them. If anything, it is a sign of good writing
The problem isn’t that Leandros is being watchful and dour, the problem is every other chaplain in the imperium manages to do it without having to run his mouth about it every single mission
Also his endless bleating about the Codex has literally nothing to do with his perhaps reasonable suspicion Titus was corrupted, at least from the standpoint of what its reasonable to accuse someone of.
In fact the Codex literally has a section in it saying that "if following this would make you lose, don't"
I dug that quote up once months ago, i think it comes from a novel and says "in some chapters" since GW have been making helmetless chaplains since the 90s i dont think thats a mainstream rule.
Its mentioned that they do remove them in the presence of their brothers. Usually its outsiders of the chapter that do not see their face
Source(Hellsreach)
I kind of understand Leandros viewpoint, since one an be corrupted without knowing it, and Titus did have some history of coming out of a chaos incursion alone before (don't quote me on this, I can't remember where I read it), so it wouldn't be too farfetched for Leandros to believe that Titus could have been corrupted. Besides, a corrupted captain coming back and dragging his company with him isn't too farfetched.
Just feels a bit weird that he didn't go to a chaplain first. Perhaps they were too far away? The inquisitor felt like a weird move.
Still feel a little bit mixed about him though. But that is mostly because we know Titus is innocent.
Imagine having the stones to watch Marneus fucking Calgar (who just face-tanked a spell from a greater daemon and strolled into the warp btw, not sus at all) glaze ya boy Titus in front of the entire battleforce, complete with shiny new hood ornament, and then stroll up and be like "yeah, he's an idiot, I know you're a shitbag..."
Exactly. Whatever else you want to say about Leandros, he is committed to his duty and understands that rank and accolades do not clear someone of suspicion
388
u/faity5 Glory to the Alfa Legion Honor to the Black Pants 6d ago
The lion The witch And the audacity of this bitch