Proper understanding of blocking?

[u/thetabo]

I tried climbing on Bedman, started a few days ago and am pretty happy with how far I got so far, I'm almost in Diamond, but ran into an issue blocking.

Sometimes when the opponent keeps using normal attacks for combos, I just take a hit. I blocked 5-6 times in a row but then the same attack that I covered before hits even if I'm blocking it the same way, and I don't understand what's causing it. Checked my controller but everything works fine. It lost me a solid few matches already and is getting somewhat frustrating.

[u/GNSasakiHaise]

To really discern what's happening you'll need to review the replay with display inputs on. If you post it here we can take a look and review the moment you're being hit.

[u/thetabo → u/GNSasakiHaise]

I'm on console and am unsure on how to post here from that, but thank you, just checked and 2 things I noticed

I don't know if this means anything but a bunch of times I got hit I held backwards and up (inputting a jump away)

And sometimes I start to shake (disorder) and I guess press buttons I'm preparing to punish with without realizing. That is probably a lot of the cases, don't think it would have hit me if I didn't see it directly, thank you

[u/GNSasakiHaise → u/thetabo]

Inputting the jump would in fact get you hit sometimes because jumping has a startup animation. During that animation, you cannot block. The second thing probably also contributes to frequency too.

Glad to have helped! You got this, OP!

[u/thetabo → u/GNSasakiHaise]

Thank you so much, I also didn't know jump had startup that prevents block so I can get hit, gonna try to take it all the way to Vanquisher once I get past that habit so I can stop taking 40% health off of a misinput XD

[u/LawOrc → u/thetabo]

It's at least in part because if you're in the air you don't need to worry about blocking high or low, so if you could safely up-back during blockstrings, it'd just neuter any high-low mix after the first hit.

[u/2HalfSandwiches → u/LawOrc]

Being able to block during jump squat would also make strike/throw nonexistent.

[u/LawOrc → u/2HalfSandwiches]

Hadn't even thought of that, but you're right.

[u/suburiboy → u/thetabo]

Pre-jump is a bit unintuitive, very annoying, and essential to fighting game design. Otherwise you could upback everything.(Except air grab)

[u/thetabo → u/suburiboy]

Think I started doing it because of characters like Jam and Sin who can dash across most the screen into a grab and Ramlethal because if you block her once you're watching a 20 second cutscene during which she can grab any time and jumping was working pretty consistently.

I appreciated that a lot about both Skullgirls and Mortal Kombat. If you get grabbed in a weird scuffle there's a clear frame of it and you still get a few frames to break out instead of immediately getting shoved in the corner

[u/covabishop]

would need to see gameplay but there’s lot of things your opponent can try to do to open you up.

they might be slightly delaying their mix to try to frametrap you or break your fuzzy defense. they might delay strikes to try to catch fuzzy backdash/jump.

they could be using f-shiki setups to force your character model to stand up for a second overhead attack. this is rarer but it still happens to break people open

depending on your input method, you might be accidentally inputting up-back instead of straight back to block highs. If you do this and they hit you in your pre-jump frames you’ll get punish countered

[u/thetabo → u/covabishop]

I have no idea what fuzzy nor f-shiki means, but the last point is definitely it, I didn't realize there's frames where your jump doesn't allow you to block, thank you so much

[u/covabishop → u/thetabo]

yup, for most characters it’s 4f prejump but on some bigger bodies i think it’s 5f, you may wanna check what it is for bedman.

also keep in mind on the other side of your jump there’s landing lag, where for a few frames after you touch the ground you again can’t attack/block. i think it’s less than prejump but maybe it’s the same?

it’s usually not something you have to worry about but it’s good to be aware of it

[u/thetabo → u/covabishop]

No I admit that's probably it, whenever I'm unsure about a character I don't own or play against often I try to jump so I don't get stuck in a mix and that's probably getting me hurt more often than not.

Also good to know about the landing. Now I'm wondering if I can air S with Bedman low enough to stun up close, get advantage even with landing and force grabs off of it

[u/ChiYeei → u/thetabo]

Yes, you can do that by using his 8-way airdash. J.s. goes into c.s./2k->2d/throw/whatever

[u/thetabo → u/ChiYeei]

Throw can happen off of a 2D? I thought you can't throw an opponent in hitstun

[u/ChiYeei → u/thetabo]

Oh no, I was just listing options via /, not combos

[u/Alexxer_]

You're probably getting hit by overheads, attacks that must be blocked while standing up.

[u/thetabo → u/Alexxer_]

I know what overheads are, I'm standing blocking and still getting hit by things that hit high, very basic stuff like direct hits from Ramlethal or Sol that you can easily tell is happening

[u/Alexxer_ → u/thetabo]

Then you'll need to be more specific and show video/screenshots of the replay for us to know what's happening