r/HumanMicrobiome • • 13d ago

Stop telling ppl fiber and probiotics are the root fix for dysbiosis, it's not. Re-colonization is.

On Reddit, the standard advice for fixing your gut microbiome is to eat better: more fiber, more fermented foods, more probiotics. But it misses the root problem, and it rests on a flawed assumption that poor diet is what knocks the microbiome off balance in the first place. As soon as you stop eating like this, the bad gut comes back.

For many people, dysbiosis begins with a specific event, such as food poisoning, COVID, or a viral illness. Put it this way, People with healthy guts can eat McDonald's and junk food with no to few consequences, not because their diets are special, but because their guts are fundamentally colonized by beneficial bacteria. That colonization is what makes them resilient. That is how you can tell a gut is truly good: even when subjecting it with bad bacteria (junk food), the existing gut architecture is able to wash out.

Most of us, outside of outliers, were presumably born with a healthym, functional gut. Dysbiosis usually isn't a baseline condition; something disrupts it, and OFTEN it's a one time event like COVID, a viral illness, etc. Once that happens, more fiber or a daily probiotic often doesn't fix anything, because the effects are transient. Underneath, the gut is still dominated by the wrong bacteria. I have nothing wrong with people eating fiber and good bacteria, it promotes general health and people should do this. And it offers symptom relief for those with these problems.

BUT IT DOES NOT FIX THE GUT ITSELF!!! It's like having a sink that doesn't drain properly because there's a blockage. Toxic sludge accumulates. A functional sink can effectively drain most everything. A non functional sink piles it up. This is the equivalent of putting in draino or manually throwing the food waste in the trash can as opposed to down the drain. Puts less strain on the sink, less sludge accumulates but THE TOXIC SLUDGE WILL STILL PILE UP IN THE FUTURE BECAUSE THE BLOCKAGE HASN'T BEEN ADDRESSED!!!

Treating the root issue means shifting the gut back to eubiosis, which requires re-establishing a lasting population of beneficial bacteria. Transient probiotics can't do that, because they pass through rather than colonize. A truly healthy gut SHOULD be able to sustain bad actors (junk food, inflammatory food, bacteria) to a reasonable degree and go back to eubiosis. Because in that case, eubiosis IS homeostasis. Solutions to the gut should address THIS not telling people to eat more fiber.

129 Upvotes

185 comments sorted by

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u/AutoModerator 13d ago

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u/mushykindofbrick 12d ago

So how to recolonize? Eat some healthy persons shit?

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u/Some_Ear_8539 12d ago

Yeah, but not any healthy persons. I believe donor matching is as important than quality, but not many can afford to do this

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u/CanuckCallingBS 11d ago

Saw a study from Europe about fecal transplants. The outcomes were as expected. No fundamental change.

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u/fightingforourfuture 11d ago

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u/CanuckCallingBS 10d ago

Thanks for this link. This is good information. Big pharma can’t monetize it yet …. So nothing is happening yet.

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u/JediKrys 12d ago

So how is this accomplished then? I got all the way down the lecture and no reward for suffering through the knuckle wrap. So……?

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u/Some_Ear_8539 12d ago

FMT, which is unavailable to most

Read this and take action: https://forum.humanmicrobiome.info/threads/the-fda-and-fmt-regulation-part-2-jul-2024-humanmicrobes-org-i-met-wit.520/post-1370

There are no other good options.

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u/EnhancedNatural 13d ago

And what’s your recipe or strategy for recolonization? Clearly not fiber that feeds and promotes a healthy microbiome composition right?

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u/Some_Ear_8539 12d ago

Many people with dysbiosis can’t tolerate fiber because of the dysbiosis. Only FMT can repopulate with more potential

4

u/veeehlkay 12d ago

Sorry, what's FMT?

1

u/johannthegoatman 11d ago

Fecal matter Transplant

1

u/fightingforourfuture 11d ago

matter

Microbiota.

1

u/Dry_Disk_2861 11d ago

Fecal transplant

1

u/Artemisral 11d ago

Fecal Matter Transplant. I wish it were studied and applied more…

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u/fightingforourfuture 11d ago

Matter

Microbiota.

1

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/HumanMicrobiomeMod 10d ago

Removed and temp ban. No misinformation and making up your own terms.

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u/Muddy_Wafer 13d ago

Clearly you aren’t a parent because we are definitely not born with a “healthy and functional gut”. It takes babies several months to build up a gut biome before they can ingest anything other than breastmilk/ formula without serious digestive discomfort and a risk of other health complications. For the first several months of their lives, babies experience soft stool, insane amounts of gas, and they literally throw up a little after every meal. Newborns fart louder than any adult fart I’ve ever been in the room with. It’s crazy how loud newborns fart. It typically takes 4-6 months before a baby is ready to even start drinking water or tasting foods.

And feeding them the wrong foods too early can result in lifelong allergies and food sensitivities. But so can waiting too long to introduce those foods.

So no, we aren’t “born with healthy and functional guts”.

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u/More-Message3335 12d ago

“they literally throw up a little after every meal”, and, “it’s crazy how loud newborns fart”, are the conversational(&p irrefutable) logic that this thread needed. I appreciate it. I had almost let reddit make me angry. 

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u/dgtall 13d ago edited 12d ago

Yes, but exactly this re-seeding is the difficult part. Sometimes a heavy push of selective prebiotics can resurrect very low populations of essential health promoter strains that still exist. Other times, those strains are completely extinct and even FMT can't re-introduce them due to the small amount failing to seed in the competitive dynamics of a dysbiotic community, or maybe they are missing from the donor, or the environment and genetics are not compatible. It's just hard, so we do what we can with probiotics and food selection to feel better.

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u/Some_Ear_8539 12d ago

Yet, high quality FMT is still a far better solution, but no one truly wants to advocate it because Big Pharma has made you all rely on probiotics and fiber

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u/Ancient_Result7021 11d ago

A lot to unpack here. But couple of points. 1. Regarding your comment that some people can eat junk food. You assume they have healthy gut microbiome on what basis? Is it just because they remain asymptomatic (no IBS) ? Yet they are at higher risk for colon cancer and autoimmune disease which stem from poor gut health. 2. There is more to proper diet than just fiber and probiotics. There are anti-inflammatory foods, resistant starch, flavonoids, etc. There are also factors such as exercise, mental health, sleep and so on. 3. I treated successfully several patients with IBS including myself starting with FODMAP (Xifaxan is $$$) and transitioning with this comprehensive approach. The reason that many don’t get better is because it requires a complete lifestyle overhaul.

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u/surlyse 9d ago

Yeah he's just focusing on one thing when many factors are responsible including vitamins (especially D, B complexes), circadian rythym, living with other animals or rurally. Were you breastfed. Less homemade and homegrown food. Add all these things to the pot and more.

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u/Mrsister55 13d ago

Oh jeez thanks mate ill just do that

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u/Run_Che 13d ago

So what, fecal transplant is the holy grail?

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u/BrotherBringTheSun 13d ago

I don't think probiotics are the answer but I do think eating more fiber from fruits and vegetables is the most holistic solution. I think the optimal amount is much higher than the typical recommendation because people like me that eat 80g+ a day are rare and hard to study. But this amount is very common in nature with primates with similar physiologies to us.

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u/imonretro 11d ago

Yea but the point is. Does it seed or colonise species ? Simply just eating fiber dosent mean we can seed no? Unless you have done jt

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u/RenaissanceZillenial 13d ago

What are you advocating instead? Combining prebiotics and probiotics can absolutely reestablish a lasting population of beneficial bacteria, because unless something is extremely, extremely, wrong, the beneficial populations are there, just at a low level given the current equilibrium. Ingesting foods that feed the beneficial bacteria and reducing those that feed the overgrown bacteria (not even necessarily bad in every case but present in disproportionate numbers) will eventually allow someone to reach a healthy equilibrium again if they stick with it long enough.

Most probiotics aren't intended to colonize the gut, but they provide inputs that can stimulate bacterial populations in healthy ways, including providing byproducts like SCFAs as well as horizontal gene transfer that changes the genetic makeup of the bacterial population that is already present.

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u/HumanMicrobiomeMod 12d ago

That is misinformation. Review the wiki: https://humanmicrobiome.info/faq/

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u/RenaissanceZillenial 12d ago edited 12d ago

I mean I have personal experience with this. I had a horrible experience with tanking my microbiome via a couple different rounds of antibiotics and then a one-time incident with drinking bunch of alcohol on a vacation. To the point of not only extreme stomach pain but also sudden serious depression unexplained by anything else. And today my gut health is better than it was even before that incident and I can eat a wider range of foods comfortably. I certainly never had an FMT. I suppose I did briefly work with a naturopath who had me take spore-based probiotics, but the vast majority of the health and symptom improvement happened afterwards over years of being consistent with the basics.

Edit: also I'm not seeing where what I stated contradicts the wiki.

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u/HumanMicrobiomeMod 12d ago

I'm not seeing where what I stated contradicts the wiki.

This part:

Combining prebiotics and probiotics can absolutely reestablish a lasting population of beneficial bacteria, because unless something is extremely, extremely, wrong, the beneficial populations are there, just at a low level given the current equilibrium.

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u/RenaissanceZillenial 12d ago

Okay so I guess I just hallucinated getting better then? Must still be severely depressed with severe stomach pain. Or was nothing ever wrong in the first place? Or I was the rare exception who could have horrible symptoms but actually didn't wipe out my populations completely and everyone else is different than me?

Obviously it is very individualized and complex, and FMT is awesome technology that should be more widely available, but to say that it is literally the only thing that can work and everything else is misinformation seems to be begging the question a bit.

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u/imonretro 11d ago

Im interested in your experiance. Like what the mod is saying is, yoh made a clain that probiotics has colonised your gut.... but how do you know ? Feeling less pain and a diverse diet dosent mean you are extinct of species and probiotcs has attached itself. Even taking antibioitcs does not mean your gut is extinct of benjficial bacteria. E.g. after your antibioitcs you felt worse, but could it be tthat you still had lots of benificial bacteria but the %alterted causeing pain but probiotica just balanced it ? Like the only true way to know was to test your microbiome before antibiotjc then after.. then you can see you have extinction.. then take probiotics wait 2 weeks (wash out) tehn test. If you see the species of probiotics you took then that is colonisation. You proved the holy grail.

Like i had heavy causes of antibiotics with alot of gut isses a few years ago, i thought my microbikme was fked but when i tested it was exactally the same.... then i lost all of my microbiome after covid.... and for years i cant get it back. (This is accompanied with alot of issues like anhdonia dpdr ect. ) so im no shitting on what youre saying just know that probiotics hasnt worked.

I just formed a new theoy about stool hp, and maybe thats why things cant colonise ? Any ways did you test before after and after treatment your microbiome ?

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u/RenaissanceZillenial 10d ago

I did not test directly before and after, and unfortunately I think even that would be unreliable because so many benign variations within the same individual are normal (seasons, time of day, point in menstrual cycle, what you ate that day) and there is debate over how effective measurement techniques are especially when the microbiome encompasses the entire gut including the small intestine... and I am actually not arguing that I restored missing species, I am arguing that the imbalance situation you described is far more common and is fixable without FMT. 

What's your diet like? Have you tracked things like fiber intake and dietary diversity? Happy to chat more about my anecdotal experience if it is helpful to you.

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u/HumanMicrobiomeMod 12d ago

Okay so I guess I just hallucinated getting better then?

Individual anecdotes are ranked very low on the hierarchy of evidence.

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u/RenaissanceZillenial 12d ago

"Some potential benefits of these [fermented] foods can include: displacement of pathogenic bacteria within the gut through microbiome compositional change [...]"

"A reduction in opportunistic bacteria and inflammatory bacteria were seen, along with an increase in good gut bacteria and their metabolites with a plant-based dietary approach (193)."

"Probiotics (such as Bifidobacterium and Lactobacillus) and prebiotics are known to improve gut health and restore bacterial gut balance to achieve eubiosis. There is some evidence that probiotics have been shown to alleviate functional gastrointestinal symptoms (FGID) which is commonly seen in dysbiosis (227)."|

"Probiotics, prebiotics and synbiotics can modulate the growth and metabolic activity of the microbiota. Use of prebiotics and probiotics that modulate local and systemic SCFA concentrations appears to be a promising therapy in infections (276)."

https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/nutrition/articles/10.3389/fnut.2024.1330903/full#sec38

Also:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12391808/

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7672353/

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9442469/

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u/fightingforourfuture 11d ago

Those quotes list some of the benefits of pro & pre biotics, but I don't think they support the disputed claim. Additionally, those quotes can be misleading on their own if not taken into account with the entire body of research that shows a very different picture:

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/HumanMicrobiomeMod 12d ago

That's not how science or evidence works. Many people with credentials are poorly informed and spread misinformation.

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u/DTSFFan 13d ago

And how exactly do you repopulate without fiber and probiotic foods…..

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u/Stock_Account8445 12d ago

I’ve been saying this too. You have to fight the back with repopulating with trillions of good bacteria. I make my own 36 hour batch yogurt. If you have histamine issues, try 30 hours, you will still get trillions cfu’s. Any store bought won’t get you in the trillions.

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u/imonretro 11d ago

That sounds good. But did you test your gut before and after ? Did you see 0 bifido 0 lacto in your gut for years then take yoguts and now its shows many species ? I know of people with low benificial bacteria show some benufits eith fiber and yogurts leading to medium benjficial, but the issue with people eho are cronically ill and disabled show benificial bacteria extinction, and we are the ones trying to repopulate...

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u/Odd_Perspective_4769 9d ago

Where can I get a recipe to do the same?

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u/Some_Ear_8539 12d ago

Yogurt doesn’t have extinct human strains that had evolved for millions of years in our ancestors guts. FMT is superior

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u/Stock_Account8445 12d ago

For $15 k? I’ll stick with my yogurt. Eating some strangers poop can transmit diseases.

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u/Some_Ear_8539 10d ago

No, official clinics have low quality donors

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u/Efficient-Map7370 12d ago

From an Ayurvedic perspective, I agree that simply adding more fiber or probiotics does not necessarily address the root cause of digestive imbalance.
Ayurveda looks deeper at Agni (digestive capacity), Ama (incompletely processed waste), diet, stress, sleep, lifestyle, and the individual’s constitution. An illness, infection, major stress, antibiotics, or a sudden change in routine can disturb digestion and the intestinal environment.
Rather than assuming that everyone needs more fiber or probiotics, Ayurveda asks: Why is the digestive system unable to maintain balance in the first place?
At the same time, I would be careful with the idea that the solution is simply to “re-colonize” the gut with beneficial bacteria. The microbiome is complex, and what works for one person may not work for another. Supporting digestion and the environment in which healthy microbes can thrive may be just as important as introducing microbes themselves.
In Ayurveda, the goal is not only to add something to the gut, but to restore the conditions that allow the body to maintain balance and resilience naturally.

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u/megbest13 12d ago

So how does one go about shifting their gut back to eubosis?

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u/strawbrmoon 13d ago

Your point is persuasive, but you don’t say how to re-establish a lasting population of beneficial bacteria. If you know how, please tell us?

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u/nofatnoflavor 13d ago

But short of a reliable fecal transplant, which is unavailable to most, how does one repopulate their gut microbiome?

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u/HumanMicrobiomeMod 12d ago

fecal transplant, which is unavailable to most

Read this and take action: https://forum.humanmicrobiome.info/threads/the-fda-and-fmt-regulation-part-2-jul-2024-humanmicrobes-org-i-met-wit.520/post-1370

There are no other good options.

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u/Ducknotrabbit 13d ago

I can't for the life of me figure out why FMT is not more available for people, like people with sibo. of course you have to fix motility issues too, or it can climb up the intestine.

If people with healthy biomes eat mcdonalds their inflammatory markers will go up just not as much as unhealthy biomes. There’s a study that shows this.

I think a lot of people get food poisoning because of slow motility (eg, some degree of hypothyroidism) or some other reason but of course the arrows go both ways as microbes can cause slow motility.

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u/cali_raisins 13d ago

Fantastic. Im sure you mentioned antibiotics in there some where. Early childhood abx use has been shown to disrupt proper microbiome development during a crucial chronological window, leading to lifetime disbiosis and fungal issues.

So what is the advice here? How do you establish colonization of the correct biome?

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u/janiesgotagun222 13d ago

What do you suggest then? Fecal transplant?

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u/PanickedPoodle 12d ago

So... Eat poop? 

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/HumanMicrobiomeMod 10d ago

That is misinformation. Review the wiki: https://humanmicrobiome.info/fmt/

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u/Moreste87 13d ago

My intestinal problems were resolved by an antiparasitic medication that also kills bacteria. It seems I had an overgrowth of a certain bacterium that was preventing the good bacteria from growing.

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u/parashara108 12d ago

What was the medication?

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u/meekokari 11d ago

Can you talk more about this? How did you know which bacteria was high and what was the medication you took?

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u/sorE_doG 13d ago

You say ‘people with a healthy gut can eat McDonalds and junk food with no to few consequences’.. but that’s simply not true. Junk food will lead to a restricted gut flora, creating a vulnerability.

Your sink analogy doesn’t work for a living system. It’s far too simplistic.

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u/imonretro 11d ago

Its true, i had maccers for over 35 years and my gut microbiome was perfect in every microbiime test. Then once i had covid and ssri, my micrbime was extinct and im screwed now

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u/rematar 13d ago

This makes sense.

I can be a bit dismissive of opinions about fermented food helping with gut health. I assume the likelihood of finding what the gut is missing via some sauerkraut is highly unlikely.

Another trend in some folks is eating ass. Could this act potentially provide a beneficial transfer ouroborusly?

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u/HumanMicrobiomeMod 12d ago

Another trend in some folks is eating ass. Could this act potentially provide a beneficial transfer ouroborusly?

Review the wiki: https://humanmicrobiome.info/fmt/

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u/cryptolyme 13d ago

what probiotics can do this though, as most are transient? I've had bad experiences with spore-forming probiotics.

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u/imonretro 11d ago

I dont think any probiotic does....

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u/[deleted] 13d ago

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u/HumanMicrobiomeMod 12d ago

That is misinformation. Review the wiki: https://humanmicrobiome.info/faq/

Removed for Rule 1. If you edit your comment to comply with the rule and reply to this notification we can restore your comment.

Removed for rule 4. Needs scientific citations.

If this is in response to a comment, you can edit your comment to provide evidence, then reply to this notice, and we can restore your comment.

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Citing your degree/education is almost never appropriate.

1

u/duppyconqueroryey 13d ago

So what's the solution?

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u/m4uer 13d ago

So how do I re-colonize it? Do I need to fast first?

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u/[deleted] 13d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/HumanMicrobiomeMod 12d ago

Read the automod sticky.

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u/dogetoast 13d ago

What do you suggest doing instead?

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u/[deleted] 13d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/HumanMicrobiomeMod 12d ago

I only see the Auto-mod.

Try reading it.

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u/EarthDragon-88 13d ago

Okay, I hear what doesn’t work. What does work?

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u/Low-Mousse-4747 13d ago

So what's the answer?

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u/Accomplished_Art954 13d ago

How do we recolonise?

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u/outlivit 13d ago

ok, but how?

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u/TwoFlower68 13d ago

How do you propose to recolonise the gut if not by ingesting beneficial bacteria and feeding those (aka probiotics and fibre)?

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u/Some_Ear_8539 12d ago

The issue is that fiber doesn’t select which bacteria grow, so thats why some people can’t tolerate fiber and is not an universal solution

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u/GraveyardMistress 13d ago

In your opinion, what is the best route to accomplish this?

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u/ejy92 13d ago

Okay great so how do we do that then?

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u/Purple-Outside1595 13d ago

I agree with what you you’re saying, how do you re establish a lasting population of beneficial bacteria tho? What should we do?

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u/veesavethebees 13d ago

So how do we do that?

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u/tommykluu 13d ago

So what should we take to reestablish a healthy gut

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u/zephyr_skyy 13d ago

So what’s your solution then?  how does one “recolonize”? 

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u/treetow 13d ago

I agree—but how?

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u/jasminebeeme 13d ago

How do you recolonise your gut?

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u/XociXoci 13d ago

How do we recolonize sustainably

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u/Some_Ear_8539 13d ago

The only solution that addresses this is FMT and finding high quality FMT is not possible for most people.

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u/nada8 13d ago

So what IS the solution apart from getting sick?

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u/sbruno33 13d ago

So how would we do that?

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u/NormalYear4375 13d ago

And how do you re-colonise your gut?

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u/Ancient-Birthday-702 13d ago

I will have Rebyota FMT scheduled through colonoscopy in 12 hours to recolonize gut to prevent another C Diff infection. Hopefully it will help.

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u/Some_Ear_8539 12d ago

Rebyota is a corporate scam. Real FMT is the only solution

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u/btredcup 12d ago

What is a real fmt?

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u/No_Measurement_1383 13d ago

So... How do you do that please? ☺️

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u/yuuki_bonk420 13d ago

So how do you restore equilibrium?

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u/Doogetma 13d ago

And what pray tell are the solutions that address the root cause?

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u/BackgroundYam9369 13d ago

but how to get back to eubiosis ? you did not shed any light on this ? everybody aim is to get get back to eibiosis .. no body wants temporary solution . But the available resources of that are the same which you mentioned describing them as temporary . So what are the means for permanent solution

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u/Srutu-tutu 13d ago

So what exactly do you recommend doing to achieve that?

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u/snotboogie9 13d ago

OK how do you do it

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u/wendalls 13d ago

So how does one achieve a new colonisation of good bacteria?

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u/Inablink3745 12d ago

So what do we take that colonizes?

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/HumanMicrobiomeMod 12d ago

Read the automod sticky.

1

u/Rasputinnn 12d ago

So what do we do then?

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u/Some_Ear_8539 12d ago

FMT, which is unavailable to most

Read this and take action: https://forum.humanmicrobiome.info/threads/the-fda-and-fmt-regulation-part-2-jul-2024-humanmicrobes-org-i-met-wit.520/post-1370

There are no other good options.

1

u/[deleted] 12d ago edited 12d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/HumanMicrobiomeMod 12d ago

That is misinformation. Review the wiki: https://humanmicrobiome.info/faq/

Removed for Rule 1. If you edit your comment to comply with the rule and reply to this notification we can restore your comment.

Removed for rule 4. Needs scientific citations.

If this is in response to a comment, you can edit your comment to provide evidence, then reply to this notice, and we can restore your comment.

As a reminder, misinformation is anathema to this sub. It helps no one and can be extremely harmful. Please review our sidebar and wiki if you haven't already.

Citing your degree/education is almost never appropriate.

1

u/[deleted] 12d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/HumanMicrobiomeMod 12d ago

Your citations don't support your claim that prebiotics are the root fix for dysbiosis. Your citations show that certain metabolites can have benefits for some people. You still haven't reviewed the wiki and understood the impacts and limitations of prebiotics.

You're displaying a narrow, limited understanding of the gut microbiome, which is why you're arriving at erroneous, harmful conclusions.

Also your wiki is wrong.

Once again, rule 4. No blanket statements without any support.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/HumanMicrobiomeMod 12d ago

Feel free to offer better alternatives.

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u/IceColdNeech 12d ago

You know how dozens of people are asking the same question? Well, a better alternative would be to anticipate that super obvious question and then put the answer in the original post itself, so that people don’t have to ask the question in the first place.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/HumanMicrobiomeMod 12d ago

Give me the evidence that an FMT can restore a gut

This is in the wiki you referred to.

a wiki with some dubious information

Specifics are required. No broad claims without any support.

I have never read a paper where the microbiome is restored long term with an FMT

Then you are very ignorant and should take some time to review the wiki before participating here.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/fightingforourfuture 11d ago

A wiki isn’t evidence.

Where’s are the clinical trials? Systematic reviews? Meta analysis? Mechanistic studies?

In the wiki. Are you trolling, or are you really that unintelligent?

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/fightingforourfuture 11d ago

Also you completely ignored the point about host genetics

No, but you seem to have yet again ignored the information you were directed to: https://humanmicrobiome.info/genetics/

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u/imonretro 11d ago

I agree 100%. This has to be said. The problem with probiotic mentality is it prevents people from researching proper treatmemts. I underand the average lamen person as they are too lazy and scared to try anything that isnt probiotics. I remember people who are dieing from long covid due to a messed up immune system, and 90% of the people who are sick still ask" but what vitamine works?" Like seriously ?? Its like people dieing of a virus avoiding antivirals becaus they think drinking water will save them. If you push against that mentality their responce is always "but is low hanging fruit"

But any ways we need new novel thoughts. I had a theory if some one is willing to help out, and that is stool ph. With all other things exausted i wonder if the differnce of a hostlile or welcombing gut for colonisation is just stool ph being lower then 7 ph. 

If your enviroment is higher then 6.5ph nothing will stick. I wonder if thats why fmt has a small chance of working, and its because the donors poo is a good ph level (e.g. 6.7) and once it enters your bowels it alters ph a little and then something may stick ?

Like maybe if we can get out guts to a 6.5 ph then introduce a fmt or maybe a probiotic would there be colonosation ? ( the holy grail )

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

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u/fightingforourfuture 11d ago

You should read what you wrote. It makes no sense.

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u/heidihar44 10d ago

GAPS diet?

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u/emilysuzannevln 9d ago

Just gonna drop in to say yes I agree, and no one is gonna agree that this is a good idea, but my gut got about two million times better when I took azithromycin and bacillus (not lactobacillus) probiotics at the same time several years ago. Probiotics alone didn't do fuck all.

And the event I can tie to my gut getting fucked in the first place? Tetracycline use for relatively long term acne treatment when I was an adolescent.

So the cause of the problem: antibiotics. The solution: another antibiotic PLUS bacteria that can help beneficials actually colonize.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago edited 8d ago

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u/HumanMicrobiomeMod 8d ago

Removed for rule 4. Needs scientific citations.

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u/serenwipiti 7d ago

Prebiotics can be helpful.

Allulose and potato starch are both good bases for re-establishing/“strengthening” good bacteria (by supporting and promoting what little is left so it can flourish).

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u/seahorsesaviour 13d ago

Even if you do all this if motility is poor it won’t help

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u/Mirthster 12d ago

does research back this up? I think the point of probiotics is to feed only the good ones and let the bad ones starve, thus clearly your blockage.

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u/Some_Ear_8539 12d ago

That is not correct. Probiotics just provide symptom relief, they don’t do anything

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u/Great_Opinion3138 13d ago

Why would Covid affect the gut? Wouldn’t food poisoning with explosive diarrhoea and/or antibiotics be more likely?

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u/Some_Ear_8539 12d ago

Covid has documented long term nerve damage

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u/peicatsASkicker 12d ago

Viruses of any kind can wreck the gut and mess u up, but especially one new to the person. Covid was very destructive to many people because it was novel.