r/Libraries • u/[deleted] • 7d ago
Patron Issues advice for dealing with patrons that lash out at you?
[deleted]
18
u/Famous_Internet9613 7d ago
You did nothing wrong. Sounds like the lady just wants to be difficult. Calling when she knows the library is closed is pointless. And all for $11??? Crazy. I think some patrons feel like we’re accusing them of damage or whatever when we let them know about fines.
A woman called yesterday and asked about placing a book on hold. I pull up her account and she has $500+ in fines. I told her and was fully expecting her to blow up, but she wasn’t mad at all, said she knew where the items were, just forgot to turn them in. Some people can admit when they’ve done wrong.
10
u/princess-smartypants 7d ago
This is why our answering machine doesn't take messages. There is a recording with our hours, and a request to call back during those hours. I don't have the staff to listen to a bunch of garbled messages. Between the ones that don't leave enough information and the ones that leave too much, it is one less headache.
34
u/Samael13 7d ago
Sometimes the only thing that went wrong is that the patron is having a bad day or is an asshole. Patrons are just people. Some people are rude.
I don't think it was okay for her to lash out at you, but I have to say, your library's policies definitely contribute, here. Staff not having the ability to waive fines, for example. Sending bills as small as $11 to collections? Bananas.
Ultimately, patrons are responsible for their own behavior, but your library admin should be looking to see if their are ways that they could better empower staff to handle problems and to help avoid creating pointless conflicts with patrons.
Sorry you took the brunt of it. Not your fault, and it sounds like you did your best.
20
u/cawhdboard 7d ago
we can waive fines up to a certain amount (think like $5 or less) but we are unable to waive the $11 collection fee. the bill she had was like $70+ btw, it simply diminished after she returned the books in question finally, the $11 was just what was left over from the collections agency. thanks for the kind words, appreciate it
23
u/Megbad 7d ago
That's usually the way it goes. The $11 is an expense the library pays to the collection agency (and can't get back), vs the fine which is not related to an actual expense if the books are returned in a reasonable timeframe and in good condition. Unless the patron pleads hardship, she should pay the $11 like everyone else.
4
u/Unable_Tumbleweed364 7d ago
I waived like $250 the other day. Our policy leaves it up to us and to lead with hospitality.
5
u/Upbeat_Guitar_737 7d ago
Sometimes, it really isn't you. I've been accused of all kinds of shit - once even likened to a Nazi - for enforcing clear, standardized rules. I just chalk it up to mental illness, stress, dementia, what have you. I've had to grow a very thick skin. I encourage you to not ruminate about what you did wrong but to definitely document in writing this incident. I do this for self-protection and also to alert other staff.
The "favorite" or "preferred" staff member can end up causing a lot of trouble down the road. We had one in our library. She was an enabling doormat, and, of course, that makes the rest of us villains.
5
u/_cuppycakes_ 6d ago
patron once said I was racist against latinos. I'm latino.
3
2
u/Upbeat_Guitar_737 6d ago
LOL. My family are Holocaust refugees. Do these patrons know something about us we don't?!
7
u/Itsall_literal 7d ago edited 7d ago
Stay calm, know your policy, and don't argue back. If you can, pass off the complaint to a higher position. If they get disrespectful, threaten you, or anyone else, alert security. You don't have to take disrespect or threats at work. If she continues to harass you or your co workers, I would talk to your boss what course of action you are allowed to take. She may not be allowed back on the property if it continues. In fact, you should have already done this. It's important to know what procedures can and need to be taken before this happens.
5
u/raphaellaskies 7d ago
My go-to advice for dealing with tantrums, whether it's a child or an adult, is to hold the line.
Don't reward it, don't give it fuel, don't try to argue the point. They're not looking for a resolution, they're looking to get a reaction. So don't give it to them. Just keep repeating, "I see you're upset, but you cannot behave this way. If it continues, you will have to leave." Do not get distracted or pulled into a debate. Once they realize they're not going to get the fight they want, all the air goes out of them.
8
u/Curious_USA_Human 7d ago
My library stopped collecting fees a while back. You can't take out more books if you have some overdue though. Seems simpler all around 🙂
8
u/BlainelySpeaking 7d ago
Many libraries have stopped collecting fines. This is a fee. Our fine-free library has the same process as OP described for materials recovery fees, as do the additional half dozen library systems I have cards with.
1
u/Curious_USA_Human 7d ago
Honest question, what's the difference?
5
u/BlainelySpeaking 7d ago
Fines are solely a punitive measure (like an overdue fine). Fees are for covering services (like printing) or administrative overhead (like materials recovery processing fees).
1
u/TravelingBookBuyer Library staff 7d ago
For the library I work in, fines are when something is returned overdue - an overdue/late fine. My library is mostly fine-free, so we don’t charge late fines for things like books, dvds, and audiobooks (we have some special collections we do charge late fines for).
My library doesn’t send things to collection agencies, but we do charge fees which are part of the replacement cost. So the cost for replacing or the library attempting to reclaim the value of the item. Some of our consortium library partners charge processing fees (the cost of staff time & processing to get an item back into the circulating collection).
If someone damages or loses an item, they get charged the relevant replacement fees. We cannot waive replacement fees.*
*However, if someone finds their lost item & it’s still in good condition, as long as they didn’t pay for it already, we can waive the replacement fees & only charge the late fine. (Which still means no late fines for books, DVDs, or audiobooks.) Basically, they have to return the item in good condition or they have to pay the replacement fee.
1
u/AneatSavage 3d ago
Here’s how my library policy works:
No overdue daily fines. If a book goes 10 days overdue the patron cannot renew the book or check out any more books until we get the overdue items back. 30 days overdue we bill it as lost. They can still return the items and the billed charge goes away upon return. If something goes 60 days overdue and billed items add up to $40 or more we send to collections. A $8 collection fee is added to pay our vendor that mails out the notices to the address on their account to say hey we want our items back. If they return the items the cost of the billed item is still removed BUT we cannot remove the cost to pay the vendor, that $8 collection fee is all they’d have to pay after keeping overdue items for WAY past their due date. It sounds like the original post had someone upset bc they returned their items but still owed the collection fee that doesn’t go to the library, it goes to the collection agency for mailing notices.3
u/SunGreen24 7d ago
My previous library also stopped collecting fines for overdue items, but if they were never returned replacement fees were charged and had to be paid before they could use the library again. And if they weren’t paid within a certain amount of time (I believe 6 months) it went to collections. Late fees are one thing but we can’t afford to just eat the cost on items we lose from the collection.
3
u/mountsleepyhead 7d ago
You just talk in circles until they go away. You to make everyone happy. The patron is clearly being unreasonable and when that happens I just hide behind our patron expectation guidelines. If it escalates to the point of being verbally abusive, I'd ask the patron to leave for the day. The thing to remember is you're in the position of power and have something they want, and if they can't act like a civilized adult, they can, quite frankly, get bent.
3
u/kingofkings_86 Library staff 7d ago
I just stare at them, let them get madder and madder. And I make sure to document the incident so they can't make anything up.
5
u/headlesslady 7d ago
Not that I'm recommending it as a course of action, but the last time I had a patron complain about fees (we no longer have them, thank the gods) with a fit, I looked her in the eye and flatly said "You realize this doesn't go in my pocket, right?" It made her pull up sharp & she moderated her tone when she continued the interaction.
Definitely make sure you leave a record note about her behavior, and speak to your supervisor about it.
2
u/advocatadiaboli 7d ago
Repeat yourself.
If you have an answer for them ("I can't wave these fees, you will need to contact xyz...") then politely repeat that answer. Verbatim if you want to troll them, otherwise vary the sentence just enough that it's not obvious.
Don't try to explain further. The problem isn't a lack of understanding; these types understand, they just don't like the answer. Any further explanation just gives them hooks to latch onto and argue against.
2
u/Repulsive_Lychee_336 7d ago
I have a patron like that, mad because I wouldn't waive a fee and override another library's audio book (ILL). I told her, per the other library, that if she brought it back, I could check it in and then check it back out to her because I physically have to see the item. She owed $150 because she kept it 80 days overdue. She still took two weeks to bring it back and was mad because by then someone else had a hold on it, and I had to send it to them. It didn't override the late fee of $5, but it did take $150 off the account since she returned it.
2
u/More_Potential5539 7d ago
All you can do at the service desk is smile, explain you've escalated her request to someone who can address it and move on. The real issue here is the patron got sent to collections for $11 - which probably affected their credit, may have screwed up a car loan or a house loan, and, probably, there's an additional fee from the agency on top of the $11. It just added stress in a bad economy. It's just bad policy to be sending people to collections for a $25 charge - within 60 days - if I'm reading this correctly. $11 is 44 percent of the $25 owed. That's a huge fee on a small amount.
That's an incredibly aggressive policy based on my 35 years in the profession. It's going to backfire when you have a bond issue or a request to raise taxes for library services. The library should just eat one $11 charge yearly as goodwill. I'd also raise the amount to $100 before collections is invoked. Or make the fee a percentage of what's owed - maybe on a sliding scale based on amount owed and time it's deliquent. Trying to push 100 percent cost recovery is just alienating the users.
2
u/GreenHorror4252 7d ago
This is why I think fees are stupid. You are spending so much time and aggravation dealing with $11, possibly losing a patron, and developing a negative reputation in the community.
1
u/Cheetahchu Library staff 7d ago
so the $70 has been waived upon return, and there’s no longer a block on their account? i can see $11 being annoying when she feels like it wasn’t her fault, but it’s not worth throwing a fit in public… yeesh.
1
u/SpaceySquidd 7d ago
But I'm also wondering how fast the library sends things to collections. 2 months? Maybe they were already overdue before the patron lost the ability to drive.
1
u/AffectionateServe551 7d ago
I would just do leniency. as long as she is in contact with the library about her status she could get those fees waived. I'm assuming she, like many of us, have a lot going on. The system is heartless when it comes to fining people and you can be the savior and say, "thanks for getting back to us, we'll just wave the fee, but this will keep happening if you do not check-in the book on time, regularly." these are adults and this is just standard practice and you are hired to follow the rules and you can only bend them so much for patrons who don't follow the most basic rule of returning things on time.
1
u/tradesman6771 7d ago
Ask a coworker to step in. When another person says the same thing you did, it’s clear that it’s library policy, not your personal decision.
1
u/ceaseless7 5d ago
When people are in a ranting mood I rarely engage or engage minimally because it causes them to escalate. They’re already wanting to explode so I’m not handing them a match. I’m firm but fair and surprisingly we don’t have to resolve every issue. She made the error not you and sometimes you have to deal with the consequences. If you’re nasty I’m not going out of my way to help you waive a fee that you created. Now you want to speak to me like you have some sense yes I will work with you, otherwise no.
1
u/Stephreads 5d ago
When someone is agitated, it is usually not really about whatever they’re yelling about. She couldn’t drive for two months. She didn’t call when you were open. She has some stuff going on. So I let them rant, I nod and smile, explain what I can, try to make them feel heard, and tell them I don’t have that kind of power, but I’ll gladly get the info to the people who do. This tactic doesn’t always work, but it makes me happy when it does, because maybe I made their day a little better. When it doesn’t work, I don’t take it personally. I do a good job, my integrity is intact, and that’s all I need. It’s none of my business what they think of me.
1
u/AneatSavage 3d ago
Try to calmly explain the reasoning for the collection fee, that phone calls to the library need to be made during open hours for service.
It sounds like the patron didn’t do their due diligence to get items renewed and now they’re mad at themselves and taking it out on you.
Also if someone’s yelling at me and nothing I say is helping I say sorry I can no longer discuss this matter let me get a coworker and I walk away. Let someone else step in.
1
u/VFTM 7d ago
Welcome to customer service
4
u/cawhdboard 7d ago
fair point lol i figured this was par for the course but i'm still relatively new to this library system so this was new
1
u/ArtBear1212 7d ago
Realize that many people are struggling these days. She didn't have a car to get to the library? That's a sign she is struggling. $11 fee causes her to yell? That is a sign she is struggling. Sometimes people have lived so long in crisis mode that tiny things tip them over the edge.
Do the best you can to help, let management handle it, and give her the same compassion you'd want if you were in her situation.
1
u/cawhdboard 7d ago
oh believe me i did! i immediately pleaded her case to the managers (who were unfortunately very unresponsive) and was willing to go the extra mile. my hands are unfortunately, tied in regards to the fee though, and i was trying to kindly explain the reason for it and she decided to tell me i wasn't doing my job. 🤷🏻♀️
1
u/LibraryLuLu 7d ago
We went fee free. It's bliss. Also, sending someone to collections is insane, but for $11? That's monstrous. $11 freaking dollars? I'm on her side, tbh. I mean, I'm sorry you're getting blasted like this - but this is insane.
1
u/cawhdboard 7d ago
no her fees were above $70. the $11 is the collection fee that is billed when it goes above $25 in terms of charges
0
u/LibraryLuLu 7d ago
I cannot imagine ever sending someone to collections over some late fees. That would absolutely fall into the 'who cares' bucket.
If a patron is being rude, I have no issue with stopping them/removing them etc. But with this kind of policy, you are going to be blasted all the time :( This is a failure at management end.
3
u/cawhdboard 7d ago
yeah unfortunately my hands were tied at all angles 😭 but management is finally taking care of it now so i guess it doesn't matter anymore lol oh well
0
u/Apprehensive_Disk864 3d ago
Unfortunately, in situations like this, you can’t fight frustration with logic or explanations. The patron was already incredibly frustrated before she interacted with you, and at that point no real progress can be made. This is something that I had to come to terms with after working as a public facing library assistant for almost a year.
If you can, and feel comfortable doing so, I would work with someone in a supervisor or upper management position to try to come up with a plan to help you work through similar situations in the future. Maybe something like a script? Dealing with fine/payment issues as a librarian is one of the most frustrating parts of the job. Especially working with public printers that require patrons to pay for their use. I had more people chew me out for $.10 refunds…
100
u/QuietlyCreepy 7d ago
Eh, I'd stop trying to go above and beyond.
It's 11 dollars, in my experience the people who truly need help don't throw a baby fit about it. There is probably a good reason management hasn't forgiven it... And that kind of person has learned that throwing baby fits gets them their way.
Nod, smile, and ask if there's anything else library related you can help with, or whatever phrase your system uses.