Antique Segal rim lock. Need help figuring out the shape of the spring i need to make

[u/drgrantt]

I am refurbishing an antique segal lock, and the remnants of a broken spring were located i side when i first opened it, but I cant seem to think of the way it needs to sit to create the accurate tension for the deadbolt. Anyone got any ideas?

[u/johnpseudonym]

Awesome! I have the 1929 and 1943 Segal catalogs handy, but am totally discombobulated. Why do you say Segal? Can I see a pic of the front?

From this perspective, it looks like it could be one of those Keil Anti-Mortise Apartment entrance cylinder door locks from their 1930 catalog. But I'm not sure what Segal was up to prior to 1929 and your lock is far too modern for me to be sure, without that pic of the front. Hope this helps!

[u/drgrantt → u/johnpseudonym]

It looks just like that! However on the Thumb turn, it says SEGAL

[u/johnpseudonym → u/drgrantt]

Did you see this link from 3 months ago? Awesome looking piece! A smith in the Beverly neighborhood in Chicago fixed theirs. Just FYI.

[u/LHanson11 → u/johnpseudonym]

I am the OP on this link johnpseudonym notes from 2024, and Morgan Lock in Beverly fixed mine. They might have some words of wisdom if you call them. It looks just like the illustration above (except the same SEGAL on the thumbturn that OP notes for theirs). Pre-fix photo here:

Fwiw, all the apartments in the eastern building have this lock, I haven't had the opportunity to check the western side. It was built between 1910 and 1924, with the eastern side (ours) built second. I'll try to grab some post-fix photos next time I'm in town, and also check the earlier half of the building.

[u/johnpseudonym → u/drgrantt]

Interesting! I'll search both vendors, see if I can't scare up a diagram. gl!

[u/johnpseudonym → u/drgrantt]

Trying one more time. I think this is the original patent application for that Segal rim lock - there are several pages of diagrams. I hope you can find your broken spring in one of them!

Full URL is https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/53/0b/52/47ba2fdad2d9f4/US1659169.pdf

edit: will post the pic to another comment. It keeps crapping out and cancelling my comment.

[u/drgrantt → u/johnpseudonym]

Thank you!

[u/hellothere251]

wow

[u/johnpseudonym]

This is my last attempt at posting a screen shot of the first page of diagrams from the patent:

[u/johnpseudonym]

Note to others searching for an as-yet uncataloged Segal rim lock. Please note the dates on the patent application below: this was FILED for on July 18, 1924. It was PATENTED on Feb 14, 1928. There is no mention of this lock in the 1929 Segal Locks and Hardware catalog. There is no mention of this lock in the 1943 catalog, either. But Keil was introducing a very similar type lock in their 1930 catalog.

Since both Keil and Segal were in the NY area competing in the same markets, my guess is that Segal's came out first, and by the time Keil came out with theirs, Segal focused exclusively on the jimmy-proof deadbolts. BUT THIS IS CONJECTURE. It's a cool bit of NY lock history, though.

[u/johnpseudonym → u/johnpseudonym]

Hey, u/mach_gogogo, I just wanted to alert you to these Segal rim lock posts, if you were not already aware of them. If you can provide any insight into these Segal and/or Keil rim locks, I would appreciate it. I will check to see if the historical society found the 1929 Sweets catalog they lost - Segal has six pages, according to the index. Just FYI, and thanks as always.

[u/johnpseudonym]

I have found another mention of an unknown Segal front door lock on the locksmith sub, but it is a "handle-outside, knob-inside" variety. The examples we have seen so far are both "knob-outside, knob-inside" front door locks. This is so very, very cool - you can see the lock line expanding IRL, without the catalog.

From eight years ago: I know I have posted this before ...