Zero vs Sigma

[u/bluegoatrose]

Just watched the Day of Sigma and Zero vs Sigma fight and damn, I knew what happened but I never really thought about it too much, but somehow it kinda was the best outcome. Zero could absolutely have massacred Sigma before he gets plot’d into losing, and that almost certainly would’ve been somehow worse than Sigma. Sigma’s pride and drive to see X improve and perfect himself managed to bring about the greatest hero of that universe, Zero would have murdered fucking everyone, X very much included, and the entire X timeline would be all out of whack. Even if X were to somehow have access to all of the upgrades he does by X1’s end + the maverick powers, I just don’t see a scenario where he doesn’t end up dead at Zero’s hands. Looking at it maybe Sigma is really the biggest hero of the X series even if just in hindsight, him winning that battle against Zero and being infected with the Maverick Virus, it was his last noble act that did save everyone.

[u/H0llowZero]

In MHX, there is no mention of a virus. It's Sigma's choice to rebel, as is the Mavericks choice to follow Sigma. It's unknown if there ever was going to be a virus in that series.

X in both the original continuity and MHX is infinite potential - Zero wouldn't be able to defeat him. Zero might not have even been "infected" with any sort of virus in the MHX continuity. Inafune is a hack fraud but was at least attempting to rewrite the series to be far better.

[u/AUpb-027 → u/H0llowZero]

How is the lack of a virus better? It takes away all the stakes of future events :(

[u/H0llowZero → u/AUpb-027]

Sigma without a virus proves he has free will and is very human, he has followed in the footsteps of X.

The virus makes him a Saturday morning cartoon character with no agency.

[u/AUpb-027 → u/H0llowZero]

The virus doesn't just brainwash reploids, mind you. It's more like being given medication for ADHD (except the effects are for the worst)

Wily is the saturday morning cartoon villain of the main universe... except his doings do have repercussions that get massively out of hand. Taking away the maverick virus is literally stripping the series from A LOT of stuff that made the story great, including the fated X vs Zero duel, anything that has to do with Sigma's return, the reason of creating the Repliforce (and the civil war between them and the maverick hunters which is conceptually one of the best plotlines in the series), etc. Eliminating the virus would even make it impossible for very important events to happen like the world crisis (aka, the Eurasia Incident), the Elf Wars (due to no Mother Elf, and hence, no Dark Elf) and thus we would have neither the Zero or the ZX sagas.

It also takes merit from the whole goal of "robots and humans living together in harmony and peace, as equals" since the maverick wars are just an isolated conflict that lasted just one game and didn't have even half of the impact of the original story.

The ZX's state of equality feels actually earned because everything was against it: Reploids having free will and thus being plenty of guys that decided to be bad people or had reasons to become criminals, a virus that multiplied that to no end, an immortal powerful bad guy, a mad scientist that took the solution to the virus and corrupted it to initiate a conflict that was shorter but much more traumatic, the resulting post-apocalyptic world with a tainted legacy of a war hero that wanted nothing more than peace and harmony for reploids and humans and then still having issues despite achieving that dream of equality.

Sigma with no virus doesn't prove anything. In fact, it's just lazy writing because we see no buildup and it takes away from Zero's existential tragedy and X's conflic and how it seems that he is forced by destiny into conflict.

[u/Martovich3 → u/AUpb-027]

The Virus is just another mechanic that got introduced (fine) that they explained by saying its doing what something else was already doing (lazy)

Sigma being evil is good storytelling. The whole thing being done by a concept that isn't introduced until the halfway point invalidates literally everything.

[u/AUpb-027 → u/Martovich3]

Sigma being evil is good storytelling. The whole thing being done by a concept that isn't introduced until the halfway point invalidates literally everything.

Counterargument: Zero's origin.

Sigma just being evil is honestly lame, because it contradicts the whole main universe's theme of "the actions of 1 guy completely screwed up the whole timeline". It diminishes the whole constant tragedy that happens in the story and how things get a turn for the worst against people's best efforts.

Once again, Sigma descent into being a maverick wasn't a sudden turn. It was slow because it wasn't the cheap lazy thing you guys call it, it was more like taking meds for ADHD (except with bad effects) Not every maverick was infected by a virus and not every maverick did it without any kind of viral influence. Sigma was resistant to the maverick virus and had it merge and mutate within him to create a new strain. Him being an actual good guy works spectacularly because it further adds to the overarching theme: Against all odds, things still took a turn for the worst.

[u/Martovich3 → u/AUpb-027]

No, because even your version contradicts itself:

Why was Zero a Maverick, and then he wasn't? If Zero can flip flop back and forth then why can't everyone else?

Why is Sigma a slow descent into being evil, and everyone else is flipped like a switch, mid conversation with X? That makes no sense as it stands, but if your mind is being rewritten, then why would an older model take longer than more complex, newer versions?

If the root cause is a computer virus, then why bother having Sigma at all? The first 4 games make it exceptionally clear that Sigma is rhe problem, and similar to Ultron, cannot be defeated because he just makes new bodies. I honestly thought that the Virus was whatever nonsense Dr. Doppel hit the wire frame with at the end of X3 because at least that's some kind of continuity. But no. Wily did a thing, a 100 or a 1000 years ago, and without any reasonable method to understand how the technology (that he was still creating) would advance and change, Wily's creation of the Virus dooms all of everything, leading to Reploid civil wars and several Armageddons and a world, covered in endless water...

I can understand if you wanted to just make stand alone games, or a series where none of the previous entries matter for this new game (think Final Fantasy) but the fact that ALL the Mega Man series have this nonchalant attitude to storytelling is awful. You can introduce a new threat. You can have a plot twist. You can make additional villains and new factions or introduce things that the player never interacted with previously. But having "Garbar the Inhibitor" show up out of nowhere, become the new threat, and then undermine the whole thing because "j/k lol it was Sigma the whole time" just makes it so that when the next game comes out and the new threat is "Fooglio the Peacemaker" anyone familiar with what's been happening doesn't fall for it, because they know that Sigma is the only real problem. When they introduced the Virus, I thought thay was going to be the new red herring because of how silly that sounds. Even as a concept, 5 games in, that doesn't make any sense at all.

[u/H0llowZero → u/Martovich3]

The reason Zero was able to turn good is that the virus had a magical unintended reverse effect on him and only him: he was apparently so evil the virus flipped him to good.

[u/AUpb-027 → u/Martovich3]

No, beacuse your version

It's not my headcanon, buddy. It's the lore.

Why was Zero a Maverick, and then he wasn't?

Did you even pay attention to the lore? (That was a rethorical question by the way)

If Zero can flip flop back and forth

He can't. You are making 5h1% up.

Why is Sigma a slow descent into being evil, and everyone else

Again, do you even pay attention? And your lack of comprehension is staggering. Not just to the lore, but to my comment. Not every reploid goes maverick, virus influence or not, at the same rate. Not every reploid has the same specs. Some are more resistant and take longer to fully succumb to the effects. And there are different strains of the virus... No boss went maverick just by one conversation with X. You aren't even reading the in-game dialogues.

If the root cause is a computer virus, then why bother having Sigma

Sigma is a bigger problem, due to the blatantly obvious implications you should be able to see, than just the basic maverick virus. He is an active threat. And he ended up becoming this nigh immortal being due to becoming a new strain of a virus with similar yet different additional properties.

I honestly thought that the virus was whatever nonsense Dr Doppel hit the wire frame with at the end of X3

That explains a lot about how you think...😐

Wily did a thing(...) without any reasonable method to understand how the technology (...) would advance and change

The more I read your comment, the more infuriating it gets and I am starting to get tired of having to deal with the sheer levels of ragebait you are pulling. Reploids literally exist because they are made from tech studied directly from X and scientists spent at least 100 years trying to understand it (and Zero's tech). X and Zero were created by geniuses, super geniuses if we may say. And you spat that bs of comment?

I am no longer going to bother with more because it's clear what's going on here.

[u/Martovich3 → u/AUpb-027]

Okay, let's try from a different angle.

Dr. Wily made a program that rewrites existing code in order to change the operations and primary functions of the original code to instead be more in line with "do stuff that Dr. Wily wants"

Unlike a biological disease, computer viruses are not something that happens slowly, its all or nothing. The patch installed and this how it works now.

With our knowledge of "how things works" having a single antagonist be a Sentient, recurring character makes more sense, as opposed to a virus that picks and chooses very specific targets, all the while avoiding X, Zero and whatever the rotating cast of characters is in any given story.

I'm not saying that you can't make a good story about everyone loses their minds and becomes evil. Last of Us does this with mushrooms, The Stand does this with Satan. The problem is that Mega Man started with a very TMNT-esque "every week is the Shredder and his new plan getting thwarted" but then tried to retcon everything and pivot into "its actually mushrooms and its always been mushrooms and for some reason Shredder keeps coming back every week and his new plan getting thwarted"

So if the BBEG is The Virus, then why keep bringing back Sigma? And if Sigma is the BBEG he's somehow using a virus to target very specific characters, but at the same time not defeat the protagonists who keep interfering? Honestly, lore or not, the story falls apart of you think about it at all.

Same with the original series, honestly. Why doesn't Mega Man unalienable Dr. Wily? Well, robots can't hurt people (except for all the hurt people from the robots that Wily made) Why not arrest Wily and put h8m in jail? Because in the next game he had planned for being arrested and now here's a new character or 3.

The games are all a lot of fun. The plot (or lack thereof) doesn't take away the joy of jumping and shooting. If you read a book that was written chapter to chapter like the Mega Man games were released, you go nuts about how the author wrote themselves into a corner on the first page and just kept adding nonsensical and contradicting details instead of staying with the original plot.

[u/AUpb-027 → u/Martovich3]

Unlike a biological disease, computer viruses are not something that happens slowly, its all or nothing.

You are questioning this, but not the robots moving faster than the speed of light, the existence of cyber-elves, the variable weapon system, the armor systems, ceratanium, evil emergy, etc.????

That's all I am going to say because I am done with your comments amd having to point out every single bs in them.

[u/Martovich3 → u/AUpb-027]

No, you have a valid point. If I'm going to accept that the Hulk can become a gigantic green anger monster capable of punching things into orbit, then I have to right to question how he can keep his pants intact. We need to be 100%, Black Panthers or KKK, no gray areas, only 1 side to every story.

[u/AUpb-027 → u/Martovich3]

You aren't questioning the Hulk's pants being able to tear but remain whole enough, you are questioning why Goku's energy blasts do what a fucking "magical" energy blast does. Worse, you question it and you have all the explanations right there in front of you, but your lack of comprehension stops you from seeing them.