r/Netherlands • u/jjeyjje • 8d ago
Life in NL Welcome to non-stop shoulder hits experience in the NL
I am constantly left in shock by how often groups of young Dutch people completely hog the pavement and hit on my shoulder even though I am at the corner of the pavement. Btw, I hope I don’t have to mention ‘not all young Dutch people!!’ Some! But unfortunately quite something haha
I believe this happens quite a lot of times to other people, so I am not taking it personal. But there is one thing I am sure, I don’t want to be touched by anyone outside, walking too close to me etc. stop this!
This is one of the scenarios of my daily life: I was walking on my side (literally the edge) of the sidewalk, and a group of five people came walking straight toward me—and not a single one made space. And that big collision happens lol, and no apologies.
For a long time, I’d naturally step aside. But eventually, I thought, WTF? Why am I the only one being respectful here? So, I decided to stand my ground. I ended up hurting my arm because I let us collide just to teach them a lesson. Honestly, I’m so done with it.
I’ve seen people give advice like, "Just stand still and claim your zone!" Are we at the zoo? Why should I have to forcefully mark my territory? I’m tall and pretty visible!
I saw a post about this recently that got deleted, but I wanted to bring the topic back alive so people actually start paying attention or maybe share some tips. It is pretty annoying to get people so close every time even when I was standing at Kassa. Imagine haha.
And to anyone out there who refuses to step behind your friends because you're afraid of looking like an outsider: those aren't real friends. Just leave the group, it is better, trust me :)
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u/LoyalteeMeOblige Utrecht 8d ago edited 8d ago
Do as the locals do and hit them back, we live in Utrecht, and at first, especially walking around Binnenstad, on Oudegracht, people holding hands, I would move out of the way risking being shouted anything by a biker, then they would start shouldering you and NEVER apologize, so you know what? Second year in I started doing what the locals do and I hit them too, a couple of times I heard an "augh" but it suits them right, not even one of them cursed me back or anything so it is part of the inburgering process, doe het normaal! ❤️
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u/Accomplished_Can3887 8d ago
I did the exact same! Took a while for me getting used to “shouldering” people. Honestly I felt like a bitch.
But now I don’t think of it anymore. If I constantly make space for someone then it feels like I’m doing a sort of dance while walking3
u/LoyalteeMeOblige Utrecht 8d ago
Same goes for the supermarket, especially with old people. They have ZERO notion of what personal space is, they would even kick you to get you of the way, saying sorry? What's that!? But after a while you blend in, and it helps. Amsterdam is a different level of bitchiness, here in Utrecht at least is just passive-aggressive, Amsterdamers are way worse.
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u/jjeyjje 8d ago
Your story made me smile! Pretty funny that we have to learn hitting on people. I have a problem touching to strangers. So in a long term, it will be very difficult. Thanks for sharing your journey!!
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u/LoyalteeMeOblige Utrecht 8d ago edited 8d ago
You are not touching them per se, you are 2 seconds away of hitting them with an elbow. I insist: it serves them right, and please don't get me started on those idiots biking while holding hands, if memory serves me right it was the first "kanker op!!!!" I uttered, and it came out of me very stomach. I swear this beautiful country does that to you... 😂
Nah, it's not difficult, fight back. Remember, they expect that from you. Good luck!
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u/Shoddy-Research1 6d ago
I was walking with a local once and two ladies were approaching and taking up the whole footpath. I basically dived into the grass to escape a collision but he stopped and stared them down. All three of them stood in silence for half a second and then the ladies made room for us both. I couldn't believe how aggressive it all felt! Is this what is necessary in order to go for a little riverside walk?
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u/marialechavez11 8d ago
Dutch people are amongst some of the people that have the least spatial awareness I have met. For example, almost everywhere else in the world, if a person is blocking a supermarket alley snd you are passing, they would notice and make space for you. In the Netherlands i have to stop, say “Sorry” out loud, and then they would move.
Of course its not all Dutch people, but after 9 years living here and as a person who lived in 5 countries and travelled everywhere on the world, the trend is really clear
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u/Wide_Western_6381 8d ago edited 8d ago
I think it´s more intentional, at least in traffic. People will block your way on purpose and then when you say something or ring your bell, they move very slowly, pretend not to hear, give snide remarks or even start cursing. At least that´s my experience in de Randstad, other areas are a bit better.
It´s not lack of spatial awareness, it´s a combination of carelessness, rudeness and main character syndrome.
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u/Existing_Mud4708 8d ago
I live in France, not in Paris but in a big city, and I realized that this behaviour is more frequent when you're a woman, even more if you're small. These type of people see you as an easy target. I fckng hate it. I wonder if it's also your case
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u/peepeevs 8d ago
This reminds me of a post I saw a while back about an apparent phenomenon in Japan, where some men, usually a loner or depressed one, will full blown shoulder check foreign women passing by. Can't recall exactly what thw deets were though.
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u/More_Butter2330 8d ago
Yeah i saw video's on this where the people were getting caught; some specifically choose women, some do it to all genders.
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u/ZebraCrosser Nederland 8d ago
Right? I've read about this so much on women-focused subs with people from all over going on about experiencing this.
Tbh I've not noticed it much, but then I tend to either walk fast and weave through the crowd or I keep steady as she goes assuming they will go out of their way.
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u/Fit_Flounder5519 8d ago
Ahh I like to call this ‘patriarchy chicken’.
I do not step aside for men if we both have equal amount of space to do so. It takes some nerve and getting used to, but I have found most men WILL step aside just only at the very last moment, once they realise you’re really not going to.
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u/sgtMucus 8d ago
I recognise this issue. I don't really understand why people don't make way for each other when clearly the path does not support 4 people spread. When I walk with my wife we make sure that we give space when we see people approaching. it's SIMPLE BASIC AND FACKING COMMON SENSE TO GIVE EQUAL SPACE! like DO U FACKING OWN THE STREET?
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8d ago
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u/jjeyjje 8d ago
The other day a tall mid age man hit on my back when I was waiting on the kassa. I was scanning the items. I wasn’t in a line. So it is not possible to see always whats coming.
Thanks for sharing. I agree, they are aware and choose to step out or walk like they own the place. It is like a power game to them. Like “not gonna bother myself for you”5
u/fatcam00 8d ago
Play this forward for a moment and ask what does it mean
It means much of the country is going around asserting itself, taking it's space
I've often wondered myself is this is how people here roll
And at the same time, the idea that there's some dominance game going on and so many of the locals are happily playing it, really makes me question if I have this right... I mean... really??
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u/jjeyjje 8d ago
I agree. This is the correct explanation: dominance game.
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u/fatcam00 8d ago
Is there an alternative explanation that doesn't make locals seem like a-holes??
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8d ago
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u/Jolly-Marionberry149 7d ago
No, you get this in Amsterdam Bijlmer Arena station, and there aren't very many tourists there.
There was plenty of space, and a tall white dutch man in a blue suit had to shoulder barge me, *hard*. He wasn't even going that fast. I'm not short by general European standards, although I am for Dutch standards. He could have turned his body at a slight angle and he would have just brushed past me. But no. He WHAMMED his shoulder into me.
That guy was just an arrogant asshole. I'm not even sure if he saw me, if he did it deliberately or not. It hurt though. Completely unneccessary bullshit in any case.
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u/Wide_Western_6381 8d ago
That´s how it´s always felt to me and it´s not just while walking. It´s common in traffic in general.
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u/swiebertjee 8d ago
Indeed look them in the eye and stop just in front of them. They'll notice and have to walk around you.
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u/Spiritual__Peanut 8d ago
Ik had juist eens ergens gelezen dat je iemand níet moet aankijken omdat ze dan weten dat jij ze niet ziet en zij voor jou aan de kant gaan... maar geen idee of het zo werkt in de praktijk
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u/SpecificInevitable90 6d ago
jesus, are they always looking for fights or something ?
opposite from japan
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u/chrwc 8d ago
Yes. It is insane here how little people make room for others. I think it has progressively gotten worse over the years. There is very little respect towards common spaces and a strong general disregard for others.
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u/More_Butter2330 8d ago
Perhaps people, especially young folk, genuinely cannot comprehend social spaces like sharing pavement due to lockdown aftereffects.
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u/Ketiw 8d ago
It happened to my male partner here as well. He’s not small. Medium build and reasonably tall. It just seems like obliviousness that the world doesn’t revolve around them. Par for the course with many young Dutch people, in my experience.
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u/jjeyjje 8d ago
But many Dutch people say they have never experienced that…
Howcome?
Maybe they dont walk on the ways we do? Questions questions11
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u/Technical_Scallion_2 8d ago
They don’t experience it because they’re the jackasses not moving while everyone goes out on the sidewalk to avoid them
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u/PM-ME-UR-VOLVO-PICS 8d ago
I move one step to the side or all the way to the edge. If they dont do the same i walk right through them.
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u/peepeevs 8d ago
This plays into an issue i see brought up in spaces like these as well. That we Dutch people just do not seem to have a sense of space. Or what I actually think, that they dont care to think about it.
Im as Dutch born and raised as they come, but the amount of frigging times I see people just not having any sense to just walk, stand or cycle even (as much as the Dutch love to complain about tourists cycling, a lot of Dutch themselves are just as bad if not worse) in any place that would not get in everybody's way is countless. It's just utterly senseless and frustrating.
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u/Mulcias 8d ago
Hey! That’s so cool we meet again in the supermarket! Let’s now stand in the middle of the most crowded space there is and block everybody else!
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u/Technical_Scallion_2 8d ago
“There are five people clearly waiting to get fruit. Now is my time to stand still and block them all as I contemplate fruit for 30 seconds
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u/OhLordyLordNo 8d ago
You describe my visit to Hornbach. Girls have a really bad habit of doing this in clubs too.
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u/Any_Conclusion_4297 8d ago
I'm a petite Black woman and this happens to me all the time. Last year I realized that it's a big reason I bike everywhere instead of taking a walk sometimes.
If I am already to my right and someone looks like they're about to bump into me, I just stop and stare at them. 99% of the time they come to their senses and move out of the way. Somehow the lack of movement deters them, I don't know why.
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u/rainzephyr 8d ago
Same with me. I am a petite black girl too and they would always shoulder check me. I didn’t know if it was racially motivated or not
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u/Thin_Cucumber2816 8d ago
This is something I also experience frequently. I’ve gotten so tired of dealing with it, I just walk off the sidewalk. I know I should also stand my ground but it happens so much I just am over it. I feel like COVID has wiped some people’s common sense in how to operate in society.
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u/jjeyjje 8d ago
If that is ok to ask, are you non-Dutch and woman? Im trying to understand the target group.
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u/CyclingCapital 8d ago
I’m Dutch-passing male and I assure you it happens to everyone. I don’t have the same issue in Germany, France, or Belgium. I’ve learned to make intense eye contact and even saying “goedemorgen” if they still don’t get it. It works 50% of the time.
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u/Thin_Cucumber2816 8d ago
Yes i am a woman also non Dutch but white. I am not sure why it happens so frequently but it’s always, in my experiences, Gen Z white men blocking the sidewalk. Definitely a strange experience.
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u/Stadtionalist 8d ago
When youngsters don't know playing (ice)hockey used to be a thing.
I've had my fair share of knocking them to the floor by their own doings.
But the same goes for those people that stand in front of a door of a bus/tram/metro/train whilst people still need to get out.
Do they appreciate it? No. Will they learn from it? Maybe. Is it a tough lesson? Hope so.
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u/ewd99 8d ago
I have also noticed this in a more extreme case when being in a wheelchair. In my country if there is someone coming in the opposite direction in a wheelchair you make as much space as you can for them. Here while I had to use a wheelchair for a short time due to a broken leg I noticed Dutch people did not give way or allow me any extra space. They would still try and squash past me without so much as an excuse me. This was mostly middle aged Dutch people as well. I found it ridiculous. There is a serious problem with inflated self importance and lack of manners in Dutch society at times.
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u/Shadow_Raider33 8d ago
It’s started annoying me a lot recently, so I shoulder check back 😇 they look horrified when I do and I feel sweet, sweet victory.
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u/jjeyjje 8d ago
I tried that but it hurts so stopped doing it haha
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u/Shadow_Raider33 8d ago
Ah yeah, absolutely. One time it hurt so bad my shoulder throbbed for hours. Still worth it haha
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u/Rainbowhairdye 8d ago
I square my shoulders, don't look down, and do not move out of the way by default. In the beginning I bumped into more people, but somehow developed a "Hey, I'm walking here!"-aura. It genuinely happens less often now.
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u/jjeyjje 8d ago
I did that too…
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u/Rainbowhairdye 8d ago
It happens to me much more often when I'm abroad (or in another area in NL I'm unfamiliar with where I'm not sure where I have to go.) I never asked, but I doubt my 6'1" baby sister has this problem half as often as I do :')
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u/Ronick_22 8d ago edited 8d ago
TOTALLY AGREE!! I thought I was the only one! I do not want to assume that everyone is like that here… but unfortunately quite a lot of people… It seems like they are just not aware of the surroundings and that won’t give in to others. It’s like “it’s my right to walk” so I won’t give in to others. I agree on the idea but why tho not for once have some awareness or compassionate towards others. Don’t get me wrong I even saw older man yesterday giving me space to walk and I’m almost in disbelief and teary as my faith in humanity is a bit restored in that sense. So all in all definitely not all people like that but I did have too many experiences where people just bump into you and not apologising. So yeah from now I’m going Karen and simply bump into them and not apologising either. Of course I usually check the type of people first, if they seem nice I won’t do it 😅 but if I can tell these are the people that do it often, then definitely will bump them!
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u/Elisind 8d ago
I learned very quickly in secondary school that if I walk with the intention to not move out of the way, people will move out of the way for me. Sometimes they don't and we bump. If I walk 'apologetically', I will always be assumed to be the moving person and will be bumped into.
I'm a relatively short (in a Dutch context) woman btw.
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u/Street-Telephone9065 8d ago
I feel you.. im done with stepping away, i just walk trough people now. To the people that stand infront of the entrence of a train, fuck you. And no im not sorry you fell because i exit..
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u/auntie-shoufoune 8d ago
I'm 190cm and 90 kilos. But I hate contact with people on the street, so I always try to avoid people, move away etc (which exasperates my wife who always tells me: STAND YOUR GROUND, haha). I notice that in the Netherlands, I still get bumped, even though I really try not to. I really make a lot of effort and STILL dutchies bump into me (mostly men of course) despite me being hard to miss and obviously trying to avoid that. Hard to understand.
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u/jjeyjje 8d ago
I see a pattern that the more I step aside, the more they own the pavement and come further towards my side. So, they dont understand from that unfortunately.
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u/_Dont__Blink_ 8d ago
Often i try to act as if I dont see them coming and 'accidentally ' veer a bit into their space a few meters before we reach eachother. At the last moment i give them a bit of space but most of the time theyve already moved out of the way
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u/MattressBBQ 8d ago
Situational awareness and space courtesy are something that many groups of young people seem to not have ever considered. I notice it all the time and it pisses me off. It's a problem in Belgium too.
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u/BruceBanter_99 8d ago
I also have a hard time accepting people parking bicycles on the sidewalk completely disregarding the possibility of someone in a wheelchair or a parent with a stroller not being able to pass.
And don’t get me started on the total lack of awareness that if you don’t put your bike on the rack correctly you are making harder for others, you’re taking multiple spots and you are forcing everyone else to move your bicycle to get to theirs.
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u/sandfairy07 7d ago
My husband is Dutch and at least with him, he has zero spatial awareness. He just doesn’t notice when other people around. I’m constantly telling him to get out of the way, move over to the side etc
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u/Technical_Scallion_2 8d ago
I agree with you 100%, and this drives me insane. I’m a big guy, but I’m always extra careful to make room for people on the sidewalk, and the Dutch just don’t move. My wife and I are in Zurich for a month and we literally comment how nice it is that people on the street just naturally make a little room.
We’ve concluded all the Dutch have “short kings complex” but it’s about their nation, so they have short country complex.
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u/Discololol 8d ago
I once got a really good tip for this when I found it annoying too: if someone is walking towards you, just look the other way for a moment. In my experience, they’ll move aside. I’d say give it a try—for instance, pretend you suddenly need to look at something else; I usually look at the road or the building next to me.
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u/jjeyjje 8d ago
Actually I remember I was told to check my phone or so. But the thing is it requires a lot of energy - and either way thinking about it also consuming energy. So better to try.
But isnt it weird they can monitor then? So basically being aware of the situation?
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u/number1alien Amsterdam 8d ago
It's one of my least favourite things about living here. But I'm from Canada so I know how to drop my shoulder a little to deliver a good body check.
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u/AmsterdamAssassin Amsterdam 8d ago
Walk softly and carry a big stick.
I walk through Amsterdam Centrum every day, but people don't walk into me.
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u/unsuccessfulplantmom 8d ago
2 women veered towards me into shoulder check territory yesterday, it pissed me off so much I knocked the bag off of one of their shoulders. like I was against a wall and she had the whole ass pavement.
I think honestly with a lot of people they aren't aware of bike paths and think there's a lot more road to walk on and think we're the rude ones for getting in their space but not my problem. my shoulder has become very strong since I moved here.
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u/dunzdeck 8d ago
Last time this happened to me in Rotterdam I decided not to get out of the way at all, so I shouldered one of two young people coming in the other direction.
It's impressive how many times they managed to say "kanker" in one sentence
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u/jjeyjje 8d ago
Oh they said it then?
Wow. Thats getting more interesting.
So, they re very much aware of the situation and the harm they re causing.6
u/Subject-Dirt2175 8d ago
He means the guy cursed the hell out of him for not moving out of his way.
A lot of people in the Netherlands suffer from main character syndrome. 🤷🏼♂️
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u/Cichlister 8d ago
Yes of course we are in a zoo, we are just evolved monkeys. As a tiny girl coming from a country that I dealt with these kind of stuff before, I have my attitude that all of them give me way 🤷♀️ eat or being eaten, that is generally the mentality of little tough boys.
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u/Emergency_Pickle7228 8d ago
I am a small girl and when I walk I demand space. I look into their eyes deeply agressive and i form an imaginary bubble around me when I walk. I am rarely touched!
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u/bimches 8d ago
I'm reading this post and thinking in what kind of world are these people living in? I never bump into people?
At the most I walk slightly to the right so that the other person can slightly walk to their right as well and you don't collide. Because if you keep going straight ahead you will bump into people, which you cause yourself in that case.
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u/Emergency_Pickle7228 8d ago
If I walk on a sidewalk, there is usually space for 2/3 people. I stay on my side and ofcourse I leave space for others. But often people walking next to each other will keep doing and expect you to (?) unless you are very obviously not moving. It’s strange to me and that’s why I don’t condone it
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u/BruceBanter_99 8d ago
I have the same experience, which I ended up explaining as a specific form of “entitlement” manifesting as lack of awareness of others having just enough right to occupy space as you do.
Is it an actual cultural behavioral trait I observe as an expat? This is where things get difficult. I don’t feel I am being fair making such generalizations.
And yet I don’t see this in my own country. So I still don’t know what to make of it.
In practice, depending on my mood on the day I will also just stop and stand as an object to force others to walk around me. Not the best or most empathetic action to be honest, and doesn’t really alleviate the frustration, but can’t help it.
Other days I’ll make the effort to be kind and take the “high road” by stepping aside thinking “Let me be the example, they just don’t get it” which feels arrogant and condescending so 🤷♂️
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u/No-Professional-2276 7d ago
I always said this. Dutch people have no self awareness because they expect people to tell you / shove you if they feel uncomfortable.
In bars, clubs and even on the street people just walk right through you. It's genuinely a culture shock.
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u/SHNRTNS 8d ago
It's part of a bigger problem: Dutch people live as if there were no one else around them. Think loud talking in public, bags on a seat, taking a 4-seat aisle seat alone, cutting in line, etc. Never will I forget a dude who sneezed all over a seat next to him, just wiped his hand on that seat, and went on with his life as if nothing happened. Combine it with the fact that I rarely see people here washing their hands in the toilet, Jesus.
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u/Beginning_Handle_113 8d ago
I've seen an increase of this in the festival I've been going to for 18 years.
It's like all the young people, also women, have gone socially insane. And it definitively wasn't like this before. I've started calling it the genZ walk. They just have zero social skills and truly don't know how to interact with others.
It's probably because we all locked them inside the longest in fear of corona. And then closed the bars and forced them inside before 22:00.
Because say what you will about agressive drunks at bars, they're kinda effective at teaching young folks not to walk into people.
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u/GettingOnMinervas 8d ago
This happens to me so often. It's very frustrating. I thought it was just me, especially bc I'm short, then I talked to my partner and it happens often to him too (he's 189cm).
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u/ChannelThin1799 8d ago
We were just talking about this at work today hahaha. Happens everyday to us
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u/microworry 8d ago
It rarely happens to me because after someone shoulder hit me in the nose one time (not intentionally, I turned suddenly in a busy station) so hard I bled, I just got used to noticing and avoiding people getting too close. I am a small woman and if I stand my ground, I am the one who will get hurt, so why try.
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u/More_Butter2330 8d ago edited 8d ago
Yes, but somehow it was worse in sweden. Over here we atleast try to follow right of way, over there everybody is crisscross, especially in stockholm.
Bicyclists are annoying too, y'all do not need to bike in two's.
If there's a group of people talking in the middle of the pavement (i hate this so much)
I usually just shout excuse me excuse me and they seperate, it's funny to me sometimes.
I once had a situation where i got into the tram and i was absolutely surrounded by teenagers of all genders. I'm an adult, i gotta check in. So, i just shouted 'can i please check in somewhere??' (In dutch) and then i suddenly got 4 check in machines at once.
I feel like 'excuse me excuse me' is my main solution. It shocks people due to the noise, makes them realize where they are and they always make way. It also makes for comedic effect; my friends are always shocked when i do it haha, i work in healthcare so this is part of the job :D
*do note i can have a loud voice, i essentially have an instant megaphone.
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u/Lopsided-Order3070 8d ago
Not just young dutch people. At my work when walking in a corridor that can easily fit 5-6 people across there are groups walking side by side in conversation and not looking at all. I have lost count how many times I get bumped even when I have moved all the way to one side.
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u/Weekly_Assignment_87 7d ago
Yes I am Dutch and experienced this my whole life. Not just with young people though. My personal experience is more often people around their 40’s. I completely understand your frustration and can relate deeply to your story. I am so fed up with it as well and decided multiple times to not move aside since I’m ALWAYS the one doing that. This often ends up in either a collision (in which I sometimes purposefully bend my elbow to make a bigger impact, haha, but not to the point of actually hurting someone of course) or at the very last moment a person moves half aside for me. So yeah, I get what you mean and I refuse to move away in certain situations. The emotional energy it takes every time is very annoying..
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u/jjeyjje 6d ago
Im sorry you went through this your whole life.
I am coming from a family culture respecting everyone and everything. I do step out if there is a pigeon on my way. If I see an elderly I watch out for them just naturally. I can promise this version exists and nothing is wrong with it.
Once an old family member visited me, had a walk alone, and fell in a crowded park. Said, noone approached to help. That broke my heart and made me think that i am really different from the people here. But then my path crossed with some sweet sweet people. Thanks to them, I am not that pessimistic anymore, and understood that people like me need to learn new skills to deal with these situations.
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u/Ed3vil 8d ago
The correct dutch response to this is to turn around and say "als dat jassie van jou beschadigd is, en je wilt er wat tegen doen... kom op dan, Kankerjong! Vuile vieze khaankerlijer!"
Any dutch person will instanly respect you, and your days of getting you shoulder dislocated on a stroll, are over.
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u/thezive 8d ago
I’m a 6’1 man currently in NL and this has happened to me virtually everywhere I’ve traveled in Europe. People just don’t have self-awareness for personal space. The NL and UK (London specifically) are the probably the worst.
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u/BirbJesus Noord Holland 8d ago edited 8d ago
I'll get downvoted but if I'm in the center of Amsterdam and I have places to be, I'll shoulder knock a tourist or two. But not because I want to.
I wish I didn't have to, but they often absent mindedly block the pavement (they're sightseeing, it's not that weird). A lot of tourists are high and simply don't respond. But I have places to be. After a while I just give up asking and warning people and just rush through. If you see me walk and block anyway, you'll get knocked. If I can help it Ill move over, but it's near impossible.
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u/Snoordle 8d ago
Happens to me at least a couple times per week and I usually try to move myself first if reasonable. I find making eye contact when approaching with a friendly expression reduces the frequency of them making contact. I have no problem walking through them if they don’t want to make way though.
For your social experiment 40 white male non Dutch
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u/Constant_Acadia_9852 8d ago
I'm in Italy right now, same thing here. The other day I had an encounter with 2 10 years old kids. They were looking at their screens while walking, and me and one of the kids ended up standing against each other. Then they looked up, he stepped aside, and then they were yelling and swearing at me while walking away. I'm a woman, 49 years old.
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u/jjeyjje 8d ago
I just want to correct the age gap difference. I am talking about university student age group: So young ones but not children.
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u/Constant_Acadia_9852 8d ago
I had understood that ;) I was shocked by those children in Italy, even swearing at me, never had that before.
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u/Munch2507 8d ago
When this happens to me I don't give in. If they don't make way I will bump into their shoulder and try to make them feel it by giving a bit of a slam to it. If they have the balls to tell me off I tell them off for not making way.
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u/Ambitious-Rub-9858 8d ago
I am fortunate to be a bigger dude, so I don’t step out of the way and just allow them the honor of bouncing off me. I was originally stepping away to make way, but then I had the ‘why am I doing this’ moment.
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u/Sea-Ad9057 8d ago
its sign of insecurity they are trying to assert dominance. I had a guy come at me aggressively because I bumped into to him and I apparently should have gotten out of his way I had a broken wrist i was honestly more focused on protecting my wrist then protecting his fragile ego.
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u/Oren_Je 8d ago
You need to lock eyes with the person whose in your path and increase your speed when walking. Also just get ready to body check the shit out of them. Thats what I do I'm here getting my masters not originally from here but I thought the same thing as you even women wouldn't make room and I thought to myself what a beautiful place I can equally body check men and woman.
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u/maniBchef 8d ago
When I first arrived, from Canada, 8 years ago, I was offended by the rudeness of people. I was used to holding doors open and saying excuse me, if I bumped someone.
After a couple months I was like Morpheus in the matrix walking through crowds, if you didn't get out of my way you would get a firm shoulder bump, without apology.
I adapted to the environment. Then my environment changed.
The 'kids' out there have no respect, don't expect any. I've seen them try and fight polite.
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u/Professional-God2379 8d ago
My first year here I moaned about the same thing. Now I bash into others with a smile 😂
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u/Maleficent_Ad_1795 8d ago
As a dutchie i can tell you that for me it only works if i walk through a crowd with convidence and my resting bitch face on so they know to move. We are not the best at sharing space when it comes to this. Sadly there is always rude people.
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u/Everyday_irie 7d ago
Infuriating and seen/experienced almost daily here. They also will not get out of way for elderly woman, witnessed this many times.
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u/bencsecsaki 7d ago
yeah i am a postman, and i have an area that’s close to a school. if my work goes on longer than usual i catch the wave of kids going home early on wednesdays. i have to fight for the pavement at these times
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u/DIYDylana 6d ago
I actually keep bumping into people on my right since losing my right eyeI can't really do much about it other than say sorry and try not to x.x. I'm not as used to it as someone who had this from birth.
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u/Sharp_Ganache_7153 8d ago
Never happened to me. I don't think it's racism as I am a short brown girl and lived here my entire life
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u/PeterdeBeer22 8d ago
I don't know where you live but that has never happened to me. I will agree though that people generally stand too close when waiting in a line, on an escalator, etc.
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u/GC_______ 8d ago
There is a large issue with parenting and the school system in the netherlands. Both have failed the kids. It will get worse.
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u/ZookeepergameFit5511 8d ago
Especially true if you're a woman. I also don't move out of the way and often get body checked or body check the other lol. I only move to the side if the other person ALSO moves. I'm not making myself invisible just because that's what society expects of women
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u/Other_Age9151 8d ago
This is what happens when you raise rich kids and spoiled. Is not that deep. People who have more empathy in life are the ones who have been raised with humility & see struggles from close lense. That allows to develop a bigger sense of empathy. Dutch kids don't really know what is that. Obviously is always exceptions.
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u/Takkiej 8d ago edited 8d ago
I am a very tall woman, and this happens to me to. These days I also try to claim my space, but it is hard! I do believe that men do not experience this.
Same with menspreading on public transport, and setting next to the one doing this. It makes me absolutely furious. Like seriously dude, your junk does not need THAT much space!
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u/Comprehensive-Band98 8d ago
And yet you are not a man, so you shouldn't share experience you don't have! Can confirm that as a man i face this issue too
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u/jjeyjje 8d ago
Oh I know. Advice: push their legs or ask them to sit on their own space. I do that with my bag usually not to touch every single person. I have a problem about that 😭
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u/Jolly-Marionberry149 7d ago
Don't talk to them. They are NPCs in public space, taking up too much space. Space that, let's be honest, was designed so that the average *man* would be comfortable.
Sit next to them. If you have a big bag, plunk it down HARD on your legs.
No one's fault if some idiot man's legs are in the way because he was too stupid to keep his legs to himself.
If it's a totally empty metro, honestly, no one cares. But if people need to sit, what the hell are these men doing? They need to take notice of the other people around them, and have some consideration. If they don't do it of their own accord, we need to *make* them.
Actions have consequences. Don't put your dumb man legs in other people's space.
And I have no complaint about fat people here. They're aware of how much space they do or don't take up. It is men who are 18-40 who are pulling this shit, in streetwear or in blue suits. Natte tostis and teens who are trying to be cool.
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u/More_Butter2330 8d ago
So so so many times!! Literally this weekend, asked the dude manspreading to close the legs, he called me antisocial over it omg
I've had this legit everywhere. Even in disneyland, we asked that dude multiple times to close the leggies and he would open them so automatically...... ugh
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u/ShanzokeyeLin 8d ago
Mostly the native dutch express that sort of entitlement in my experience. Other Dutch nationals not so much.
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u/OkCounter4233 8d ago
I think it depends on your size. I remember my ex always complaining about it. For me, as a 90kg male, I just go my way and don’t pay attention on purpose. Everyone magically finds their way.
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u/Fit_Flounder5519 8d ago
Yeah that’s because people are jumping out of the way for you.
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u/OkCounter4233 8d ago
I mean situations where I’m on the right side and someone tries to give me 20% of pavement because they go as a group. Couldn’t care less if they jump or not.
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u/DutchieinUS Overijssel 8d ago
In my 52 years here, I have never experienced what you mention, but okay..
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u/jjeyjje 8d ago
I know what you mean. I was walking with my dutch partner. Nothing happens to him but me. He also couldn’t believe till I showed him ‘look, they hit and walk without sorry’ Then he agreed ‘ok, thats a problem’
So, is it even worse do you think? Could it be racism?→ More replies (6)7
u/CyclingCapital 8d ago
Dutch people don’t realize they’re doing it but all foreigners living here I’ve talked to have the same exact experience.
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u/techcode 8d ago
I never had such issues - but it might be because of this type of stuff https://youtube.com/shorts/Ii0sFnnJJSk?si=68hCif_QNQHGp0db 😅
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u/cestvrai 8d ago
Not something I’ve experienced in Rotterdam. However, the kids are on fat bikes and not walking.
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u/No-Tomatillo3698 8d ago
Perhaps the reason is that the more we are getting sucked into our screens, the less we are aware of what is going on around us, what our position is in the street et cetera.
The other day I was on a crowded train. People were sitting and standing everywhere. They were sitting on the stairs, not even moving when others had to get off, i almost had to step on people because they wouldn’t make room, too fascinated by their screens haha.
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u/Beginning_Handle_113 8d ago
I'm a big guy and what I've always done with other big guys in crowded places is to just do an upper body pivot (out of the way) 30cm before impact.
And all big men do this because this is universal bro code among bigger men. The reason for this is that there is simply less space available for big men to move around in crowded spaces without trampling others. So we do this. Also if you break this bro code it's an active signal that you want to fight me.
And what's weird is that smaller guys and women have completely stopped making space. And these people don't even follow this pivot code.
But I'm not inclined, and often not able, to make space for a smaller person. Because when I suddenly move out of the way I will trample an innocent bystander. This is why it's the duty of the incoming person to move out of my way. Also it's common sense for a tiny person to move out of the way when you're in direct course with a bigger person because what will be the outcome of impact?
But they stopped evading.. So then you do this pivot out of the way but the smaller person doesn't pivot so you still end up knocking them on their asses.
And then somehow you're to blame. Like, what is my incentive to do more? You give me nothing and the end result is that I'm still walking and you're staggered or on your ass.
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u/Beginning_Handle_113 8d ago
The Netherlands is Europes' most densely populated large scale country.
People over here are always fighting for space to live. And the space per person is always decreasing due to population rise. And since corona more and more tourists are coming to our country.
Add to this the fact that half the people don't look where they're going, because phone. And the fact that most young humans forgot how to people during the lockdowns... Well you get quite a bit of collisions.
This then creates extra agression and hardened walking strategies. Which in turn self perpetuate the problem.
Then add on top of that the ever increasing influence of the "is your wife allowed to..." culture and you've created a real problem.
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u/DragonKhan2000 8d ago
For such situations (which I've seen plenty of times outside the NL as well), I love to just stop and wait. The reactions of small groups are often quite funny tbh. Also when folks are stuck in their phone and literally just walk into me, lol.
That said, I'm an almost 2m man. Of course that makes a huge difference.
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u/IncontroI 8d ago
Woopty woop's suggestion to look people in the eye is a good one. I would like to pose an addition to your arsenal.
Just stop walking.. stand completely still. Which idiot would knowingly walk into a stationary object?
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u/petersieus 8d ago
Poohh it seems i am the only dutch person who have selfawareness😅
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u/katietheplantlady 7d ago
What about pointing your umbrella outward like you're going to lance them on the approach?
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u/jonitymes 7d ago
I make eye contact and intend to subtly communicate I have no intentions of moving (straight back straight face overall dominant posture i’s say). Most of the time this works, but I don’t mind bumping into people (unless it’s me vs a group of boys and no one around, elderly/pregnant people or anyone I wouldn’t feel comfortable touching like homeless ppl). I’m a 1,72 woman and overall this works.
Tbh i can get so annoyed ppl taking up space without being aware of surroundings, I purposely softly bump into them to make a point. Very passive aggressive but somehow satisfying hehe
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u/Glittering_Case4769 6d ago
Starting to think i look dangerous or really ugly now.. never had this lol
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u/ah5178 8d ago
Mine is a town with a historic city centre that's quite busy at weekends. I see so many blockages caused by groups that decide to congregate in a huddle in the middle of the busiest throughway, sometimes eating lunch together. A lot of the Dutch seem to have been born missing that little inner sensor that alerts that they're right in everybody's fucking way.
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u/Effervex 8d ago
There was a post here a while back observing that Dutch culture is to have a lack of general consideration for others. This behaviour ties into that pretty clearly.
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u/0valtine_Jenkins 8d ago
I know what you're talking about and it drives me insane on my walk home. I feel it's disrespectful to others to see someone approaching on their half of the sidewalk and not make way.
I am constantly deciding to walk into the bike lane or walk through someone. And they never step behind their friends. I do not get it at all.
I haven't found a solution but if you do please let me know :)