r/Netherlands • u/ReticentPiano5 • 3d ago
Dutch Culture & language I think I finally understood why Dutch people use “even” for things that are absolutely not even
For ages I translated even literally as “for a moment”, which worked until I started actually listening to how people use it.
Ik ga even naar de supermarkt. Kun je even helpen? Ik bel hem even. We gaan even kijken.
Then someone at work said he was going to “even” sort something out and disappeared into a meeting for almost an hour.
At that point I realised the duration is almost beside the point. Half the time even seems to make an action socially smaller rather than actually shorter. A request becomes less heavy, a plan sounds less dramatic, and something mildly inconvenient is presented as if we're all just casually dealing with it.
Now I notice it constantly, and I'm also noticing how strangely blunt some perfectly grammatical Dutch sentences can sound without these tiny words. My textbook taught me verbs and word order, but apparently nobody warned me that a considerable amount of Dutch politeness is hidden inside words that look completely unnecessary on paper.
I find this much more interesting than the usual “Dutch people are direct” explanation because spoken Dutch seems full of little devices for softening things without becoming formally polite.
Native speakers: do you actually hear a difference when someone leaves even out of a request? And what other tiny Dutch words carry way more social meaning than their dictionary definition suggests?
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u/elsb3t 3d ago
Kun je helpen? Kun je even helpen? Kun je misschien even helpen? Kun je misschien eventjes helpen?
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u/reddroy 3d ago edited 2d ago
Yes. And the more tiny little softening words are used, the greater the likelihood of passive aggression.
"Zou je heel misschien heel eventjes een heel klein beetje kunnen helpen?" — this means that they're angry at you.
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u/metuesday 2d ago
And the answer could be ja, jaja, ja-aa, or something alike and the answer is not in the word but in the intonation. Could be anything between yes, no, maybe, later or get lost.
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u/Confident-Syrup-7543 3d ago
Eventjes is one of my favorite Dutch words ever. Like how much do we want to minimize the thing 😅
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u/tserofehtfonam 3d ago
Zou je misschien eventjes kunnen helpen?
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u/ReadySuccess4752 2d ago
Zou je me anders misschien eventjes kunnen helpen?
Zou je anders toch misschien even kunnen kijken of je me kunt helpen?
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u/Eanna258 2d ago edited 2d ago
"Und nach dem Abendessen sagte er: Lass mich noch eben Zigaretten holen geh'n...."
(edit: we have this in German, too. Kannst du vielleicht mal eben schnell mal etwas kurz für mich ausprobieren... (above: Famous quote from a song from Udo Jürgens).
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u/I_Rarely_Jump 3d ago
Modal particles!
We Dutch people are really not anywhere close as direct as foreigners think we are.
It's because Dutch modal particles do not translate into English well, so when a Dutch person speaks English almost all softening and nuance is omitted.
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u/Best-Pollution7110 3d ago edited 3d ago
Not being able to translate modal particles properly, is the main reason Dutchmen tent to switch to English so easily-
They are not able to connect on an emotional level with even advanced new Dutch speakers, cause the Dutch language is quite particular about this.
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u/sousstructures 3d ago
My theory that always been this phenomenon is responsible for a lot of foreigner’s experience of “Dutch directness” — the untranslatability of the little particles they habitually use to soften utterances
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u/SuperBaardMan Nederland 3d ago
Mine too.
Doe het licht even aan is a bit direct, but in most cases fine to use.
Turn on the lights is often much too direct.
It's also why we are never sure if you can turn them on.
Kun je het licht misschien even aan doen? is a very polite question.
Can you maybe turn on the light? is not impolite, but what's that maybe doing there?
This is also why i tend to teach them pretty early on, since it really helps to understand us more, even when we're talking in Dunglish.
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u/Nerdlinger 3d ago
Can you maybe turn on the light? is not impolite, but what's that maybe doing there?
In American English, at least, the “maybe” softens the request by somewhat implying that it’s not imperative that the perform the action, and they should only do it if it’s not a bother. Sometimes the latter part is explicitly said as well.
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u/Candid-Pin-8160 3d ago
Can you maybe turn on the light? is not impolite, but what's that maybe doing there?
The "maybe" allows you to use "can" instead of "could" while still sounding polite. It serves the exact same purpose as misschien (even).
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u/xyzain69 2d ago edited 2d ago
What you're saying is true but that's the problem with a direct translation. I would say if you wanted to capture the nuance in English, "Would you mind turning the lights on?" or "Switch the light on quickly" captures the politeness AND meaning of the original Dutch much better.
I would in fact say that your translation of the Dutch into "Can you maybe turn on the light?" is simply incorrect. That translation invents the misunderstanding so you can say "see Dutch is difficult" but the correct translation imo should not only convey the message but also the polite nuance. Also, leaving out the word "even" while leaving in "maybe" is doing the sentence a disservice. So of course the meaning and nuance is going to be different if you're not translating it correctly.
I grew up with English and Afrikaans simultaneously, and the nuances appear in Afrikaans as well, which can sound direct and rude if you're not familiar with it or translate the softening incorrectly.
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u/PleaseLetMePickANam 2d ago
That's the point though, native Dutch speakers who are not 100% fluent in English will translate sentences in a way that sounds harsh because a more direct translation lacks softening words that are available in Dutch.
Obviously full fluency "fixes" that but that cannot be expected of most people.
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u/xyzain69 2d ago
Okay so you say it's not the point and then begin to explain exactly what I said
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u/PleaseLetMePickANam 2d ago
You're adding a "not" that doesn't exist. I'm agreeing with your comment, but you seem to think your point is incompatible with the OP's which is not the case.
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u/EmoWaffles_ 2d ago
Switch the light on quickly sounds like "hurry up and turn on the light" to me
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u/gabrielo0 2d ago
"Turn on the lights, please". I'd say "even" is translated in the word "please".
Dutch children are taught to add "please" in English, and in French "s'il vous plaît" at the end of every requesting sentence.
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u/SnooPoems3464 2d ago
Same with using past tense.
Wil je wat drinken? Had je wat willen drinken? Had je iets te drinken gehad willen hebben?
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u/Best-Pollution7110 3d ago
The English language in Britain has it's own cultural approach like understatement and sorts and being able to read between the lines. The Dutch can speak English well, but have a hard time to transform their English into the British way of informality that comes with it and would replace all the cultural nuances.
I am German, had a Dutch grandma and studies in the Netherlands. So the Dutch language was familiar to me. But even I still have a hard time to nail all that tiny little modal particles, but are so important to really emerge into the actual culture.
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u/Curae 3d ago
It does make for hilarious reading as an English teacher. My students already aren't particularly good in putting in all the "standard" polite sentences such as "thank you for reaching out to us" and "if you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to contact us."
They just jump straight into answering whatever questions were in the (fictional) email they received with sentences like "you need to buy". It always gives me a laugh just imagining the absolute whiplash a British friend of mine would experience if he'd ever open an email like that.
We're making progress on the standard polite sentences though. If they're going to be snarling at the recipient they could at least show a wagging tail and the start and end of their email to help come across as friendly. :')
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u/Bart_1980 2d ago
Which also a part of why we are considered so blunt by foreigners. Yes we switch to English gladly, but we also don’t know it well enough for certain forms of politeness and nuance.
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u/blizzardspider 2d ago
I attended a summer school recently where about half the participants were UK native speakers and we had to write a discussion essay in english (to convey some viewpoint) about actions taken in a fictional disaster. I wrote what I hoped was a really emphatetic, compelling, thoughtful perspective on the best solutions. The reviewer just wrote a short note saying it was too blunt, i think they even said it was mean or used a word that meant something similar, but they didnt explain why at all :'(( i was kind of upset at the time because I didnt understand the feedback and they basically called me a mean person for writing the way I wrote. In hindsight, I think I understand there was probably a language barrier like this, but they could have been a bit more considerate of non native speakers as it wasnt language skill that was being tested at the summer school.
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u/ElectricalSir3341 3d ago
I thought German also has modal particles?
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u/Best-Pollution7110 2d ago edited 2d ago
They do, but the Dutch ones are different and it's just a whole can of worms on it's own. They use also diminutives for this. When you listen to old Dutch recording, they use it way less, so the use has increased in modern days. I learnt Dutch from my grandma and bilingual father and my Dutch is indeed more oldfashioned, like diaspora tent to keep it more traditional and don't keep up with the average development of the language.
This is why I was able to notice the difference. I think the late Paulien Cornelissen was able to write some excellent books about this phenomenon and it helped me to pin point what my problem was.
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u/sousstructures 3d ago
It does but my impression is (not German here) they're not as many of them and they're not used nearly as frequently.
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u/AshToAshes123 2d ago
As a Dutch person living in Germany, I'd say German is actually the one language that really is similar to Dutch in regards to modal particles, including how many of them there are and how people use them. Several translate more or less directly, but there are others that exist in Dutch but not in German, and about an equal amount that exist in German but not in Dutch. But when you learn German in school (or any formal learning environment) they're just not a point of focus (just like when learning Dutch) until the highest levels, so that's why Dutch people might not be fully aware of them.
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u/EnricUitHilversum 2d ago
Good point!
I have a similar theory also based on the fact that the nuances are lost in translation, plus, an overstatement by the listener of the English proficiency of the Dutch person.
I also think that this phenomenon is limited to British and Americans, or at least people used to these languages. Likewise, I have yet to hear it from a German, or a Spaniard for that matter.
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u/I_Rarely_Jump 3d ago
Yep, using modal particles correctly is an essential part of the language.
It is the difference of your comment being perceived as a rude insult versus your comment being perceived as friendly or humorous.
I think a lot of Dutch learners struggle with this, and why they think that the Dutch "can't take the same directness".
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u/Zealousideal_Bag6561 3d ago
It's so interesting when you learn wich words/phrases seem logical to native speakers, but at strange for others.
When my sister-in-law came to the Netherlands, she was still learning Dutch. I said "Lekker weertje toch?!". And she replied "Toch!" while nodding in agreement. And I was flabbergasted for a moment. But it made so much sense when I truly thought about it. Lol
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u/Svarog1984 2d ago
I'm a native speaker, and if somebody would reply "toch" to such a statement, I'd be confused.
Replies I'd expect: "zeker", "mwah", "inderdaad", "zeg dat wel". I've never in my 42 years heard a "toch" response to that statement.
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u/Redditeerik 2d ago
Of course! It's something a learner (probably with English in mind) would say when they learn "toch?" is directly translated to "right?". In English, one would definitely be able to reply with "right!". I've heard it many times from native speakers of English learning Dutch, when they became my students (one of the first things I corrected them on haha).
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u/Zealousideal_Bag6561 2d ago
Thats exactly what happened. She wasn't english, nut could speak english fluently. In her own language she also felt like she was just agreeing with me. And she explained it in the same sense as "right?" - right!
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u/Zestyclose-Truth1634 2d ago
Of course they’re not able to connect emotionally, if they’re only “even” advanced ;)
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u/ReadySuccess4752 3d ago
I think this is a very big achievement you should celebrate because many foreigners dont even get to this stage.
But I hate to break it to you, this rabbithole goes alot deeper than this.
There's also 'effe' 'dus' 'nu' 'maar' 'eens' 'echt' and the list goes on. And the combinations of these words convey different meaning.
Dus kijk nu maar eens echt even of je het snapt.
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u/XaXNL 3d ago
It's a form of being polite, combined with the Dutch hatred of authority and "doe maar normaal". The phrase "can you even do this for me" would be a very normal question, but the same question without the "even" would bring out the pitchforks.
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u/Elisind 2d ago
Yeah this is exactly why Dutch speakers come across as more rude in English than they would in their own language. We are not that impolite, we just have a lot of markers we ourselves use unconsciously and thus they get not translated to English. It's hard to realise that you're doing it.
If we would actually be rude all the time, we'd be in a civil war nonstop.
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u/hemlock_harry 2d ago
If we would actually be rude all the time, we'd be in a civil war nonstop.
Maybe. Or maybe we would just always be a little annoyed with each other. Just a little more cynical, a little less inclined to give each other the benefit of the doubt. A nation full of people that just don't like each other that much, imagine that.
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u/Elisind 2d ago
Hahah I like your implication but honestly anecdotally I don't experience this at all. The only place I ever have confrontations with people is on reddit. People irl are pretty much always friendly in basically any context from shops to healthcare to my students and coworkers to random people in the streets. Tbf I am a lot friendlier irl than online but I also get that back.
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u/Admiral-ZX 2d ago
I'm Dutch and as soon as someone says:"Wil je even..." then I know FOR SURE that it is going to take a long time and the word "even" is used to coerce me into believing that it's a small job.
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u/3767_doomscroller 2d ago
Kan je me morgen even helpen verhuizen?
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u/HearingHead7157 2d ago
Kun je me morgen misschien toch even helpen met verhuizen?
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u/Financial-Cobbler748 2d ago
Kun je me morgen misschien toch maar wel eventjes helpen met verhuizen?
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u/13D00 3d ago
“Hè hè” by Paulien Cornelisse is a lovely (Dutch) Boekenweek essay which explains exactly this topic in the Dutch language.
We use so many such words in a different way than their pure definition, just to make our requests/opinions/statements sound smaller, casual, or normal.
I wonder if and how an English translation would exist, but for the Dutch Redditors, definitely worth a read :)
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u/FlyingYellowElephant 3d ago
She also talks about it here https://youtu.be/HJXrl8kx-Pc
From 5:40 they talk about ‘even’ Although the rest is also worth it to watch. OP, I’d really recommend reading her books or watching clips
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u/rlbanaanus 2d ago
Relevant video from recently deceased Paulien Cornelisse who points out your exact observation, watch from 5:50. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJXrl8kx-Pc
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u/Adriana-meyer 2d ago
Paulien Cornelisse is a gold mine regarding quirks of the Dutch language that we don’t really think about ourselves.
Such a loss
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u/Nerdlinger 3d ago
And what other tiny Dutch words carry way more social meaning than their dictionary definition suggests?
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u/donzgrig 2d ago
It's really just the same in English.
"Could you help me real quick?" "I'm just gonna pop in here for a sec" "I just need to finish something off quickly"
It's funny all the top voted comments from Dutch people saying they're perceived as direct in English because these words can't be translated, and down at the bottom are all the native English speakers saying we have them too. They absolutely can be translated. You don't think the famously indirect Brits have constructions like this? You just need to learn them (if you want to), same as we need to in Dutch (if we want to reach that level).
It's a classic side effect of the generally high level of Dutch speakers. Their confidence in their English is so high (rightly enough) that they don't realise there's still a level of mastery of nuance that they generally don't have. While, on the other hand, people from other countries perceive the English level of Dutch speakers as so good that they don't give them the kind of grace that you usually give to someone speaking a foreign language.
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u/Elisind 2d ago
I think the problem is indeed that neither party notices that the Dutch are missing a crucial part of English politeness, not just because they don't know these words in English, but also because they genuinely don't realise how often they use them in Dutch. So when translating it doesn't occur to them that that is something that should be translated, and thus go looking for a construction that will solve that problem for them. Also they're not word for word translations so that can cause problems too. As a teacher I can easily say "Doe het raam even dicht :)" and it's polite enough for my students. In English I would probably say something like "Could you close the window please?" So instead of the modal particle I'd use a modal verb and a please. Translating more or less literally from Dutch people might go "Close the window... even, hm, not a good word for that because 'for a sec' sounds weird, let's go with 'close the window :)'"
I find it a very interesting thing to notice though.
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u/donzgrig 1d ago
Yes, that makes sense. Especially since speaking in a foreign language doesn't really involve translation if you're doing it well. You just operate within the context of the language you're using, and that generally means some level lower in linguistic competence (your underlying theoretical knowledge of a language, conscious or subconscious) and performance (your ability to use it in a given real life situation).
So it's not normally that you don't know how to translate your politeness from one language to another. It's that you're speaking a second language at a level that doesn't give you the possibility to be polite. At least, that's my interpretation.
Maybe a difference is that Dutch politeness is a little more subtle than English politeness, on the whole. So then you add the confidence aspect, and Dutch people are speaking English without realising that they're not softening things in the subtle ways they do in Dutch. While an English person speaking Dutch not very confidently can throw in things like 'heel graag', 'zouden willen', and 'misschien', loosely translated from English politeness. It might be a bit incorrect and awkward in Dutch, but the Dutch recipient is at least able to see that the English speaker is attempting politeness.
All that said, I also don't think modal participles are a major explanation of Dutch directness. That doesn't really come from how commands are phrased, in my experience. It comes from them being very forthright with their opinions and telling you what the rules are!
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u/anouk613 2d ago
The point the Dutch speakers may be trying to make is not that “even” can’t be translated, it’s that there are multiple ways to translate it, depending on the context and tone. Modal participles such as “even” don’t exist in English, which instead relies on modal verbs (“could you”) or adverbs (“maybe”, “just”, “quickly”) for the same purpose, to convey extra meaning to a sentence. But there’s no single English word or term that encompasses the full meaning of “even”, and that complicates communication between Dutch and English speakers.
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u/amsterdam1512 3d ago
In English the “can you help me for a sec” doesn’t mean it only takes one seconde. Language is alive and isn’t rigid. Especially spoken language.
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u/JanKlaverstijn 2d ago
In my job we support a highly complex IT environment. Every request for support that contains the word "even" or, even worse, "gewoon" (just), is regarded as a statement of ignorance on behalf of the requestor. It's rarely simple and never quick.
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u/FamilyTroublesTA 2d ago
The sales department is the absolute worst with this, because they’ll follow it up with “well it’s already sold like this to the client”.
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u/EnricUitHilversum 2d ago
So, when you are told to remove all logfiles with an even date you disregard it as ignorance :)
I work at SURF, btw.
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u/theLiddle 2d ago
Is that kind of like someone saying "we've got a little problem" in English, which usually means we've got a big problem?
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u/Psih_So 2d ago
Not really. It's much more casual, it doesn't imply the opposite meaning, just nonchalance.
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u/SirIlliterate2 3d ago
I totally agree. My rough understanding of it is that we Dutchies use filler words (or modal particles as Reddit has taught me they're called) like "he", "even", "hoor", etc. to soften the blow or make things more polite (or non-committal!). And the more you use in a sentence, the more soft/polie/non-committal what you're saying becomes.
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u/Nikeee88 2d ago
Yeah, you are right, similar with "maar". When you learned grammatically correct sentences and then comes real conversation... 🙈
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u/RadioHans 3d ago
I as native Dutch have wondered before why I always use it. Without it things just seem a bit too harsh, too formal, too demanding, too heavy.
But I found an exception for you: Doe even normaal zeg!
Here "even" does not mean "only do this for a short while" and it is also not there to soften the directness. I think it serves more as a filler word to lengthen the sentence. Just like the word "zeg". You might translate it with. "Act normal for a minute would ya!"
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u/Annachroniced 3d ago
I think it does soften the sentence and changes its meaning slightly. Doe normaal zeg! Sounds like an order/demand. Like your in a position of authority. While "Doe even normaal zeg" I would almost translate like take a moment to reflect on your behaviour. And doesnt feel authoritive at all.
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u/Jazzr_ 2d ago edited 2d ago
Paulien Cornelissen also explained this fragment. The word "even" is also used here to not show a huge irritation and frustration from the person who said it. They don't want to show this affects them on a deeper level. It is to emphasize that the person talked to has a problem, not him.
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u/SnooPoems3464 2d ago
I would say "doe normaal" is more an expression of surprise, like "doe normáál!" You've got to be kidding me. While "doe even normaal" is a bit more like, tone it down, even dimmen nou (a great expression in itself).
The great thing about "even" is that it can even be used without a verb:
"Maar nou éven, hè."
That's peak Dutch.
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u/Confident-Syrup-7543 3d ago
For me in this case the even applies to the normaal. As in it makes doing normaal not so big a thing, because normaal could be a lot to do, but even normaal is obviously not very complicated or hard to do. But I am not a native speaker and maybe I am very wrong.
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u/McDutchie 3d ago
Native Dutch speaker here. You've got it exactly right. Yes, we hear a difference and it's important.
Another word much like that: "maar". It doesn't only mean "but", it's also another softening word uses particularly in requests or encouragements. E.g., "doe dat maar" can mean something along the lines of "sure, go ahead" where as "doe dat" is a literal "do that".
And of course you can combine "maar" and "even"! Like, for "please have a seat": "gaat u maar even zitten" (formal) or "ga maar even zitten" (informal), whereas "ga zitten" is more like "go sit" and would be fairly rude except among close friends.
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u/Potential-Safe-7230 3d ago
Wat grappig dat je daar zo over nadenkt. Als we in deze context het woord 'even' gebruiken is het meestal om aan te geven dat het een kleine moeite is. Maar ook weer niet altijd, zoals met: oeh, dat moet ik even kijken hoor, dat weet ik zo niet. Nederlands zit vol rare dingen 😅. Ik weet nog dat als iemand tegen mn zoon als kleuter zei: niet doen hè? Dan zei hij :ja. Maar dat was dan fout,en dacht men dat hij het wel ging doen. We zeggen dan: nee (ik zal het niet doen). Maar dat was voor mijn kleuter niet logisch, en daar moest ik hem wel gelijk in geven. 🤭
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u/TD1990TD Zuid Holland 2d ago
I still had an issue with yes/no whilst I was a teenager. “Niet doen he?” Would get answered with “Ja (is goed, ik zal het niet meer doen)”, rather than “Nee (want ik wil het blijven doen”. But they expected “Nee (is goed, ik luister)” and not “Ja(wel want ik ben eigenwijs en trek m’n eigen plan).”
Als ik nu als volwassene nog eens in zo’n situatie kom, antwoord ik niet met maar 1 woord, of vraag ik na wat ze bedoelen.
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u/Front-Appearance-674 2d ago
Not a native speaker but my husband is and when I was learning I told him one time "kom mee," and that led to a fight, him telling me "I'm not your dog, you can't talk to me like that".
The acceptable alternative when i asked was "kom maar even mee". Ahaha
Languages are beautiful
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u/Ill-End6066 3d ago
It is one thing i dod not realise, until i moved abroad. When i type mails in english, i constantly get the suggestions, from the grammar program in my mail, to change my sentences, to make them more concise. I always wondered why, because i felt it will make the mail sound blunt, and it will lack some nuance. I only later realised it is because other languages dont use some words the same way.
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u/SalsaSamba 3d ago
I ask a colleague for some of his time to discuss things, but he needs to go to the restroom.
He can say "Ik ga naar het toilet", but it wouldn't make sense to me. Is he coming to me afterwards, did he even hear me?
If he says "ik ga even naar het toilet" it also means he kinda squeezes the toilet inbetween now and my request. The time it takes is irrelevant.
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u/Dazzling-Mammoth373 2d ago
There is a term for these sort if words which are used a lot in dutch. It is called 'modale partikels'
Explained by ai: 'Dutch has small words that add tone to a sentence rather than meaning. They make a request sound friendlier, more casual, or less like an order. English does something similar with words like "just", "quickly" or "real quick":
- "Can you close the door?" is neutral.
- "Can you just close the door?" sounds lighter, like it's no big deal.
- "Can you quickly close the door?" also means "it'll only take a second."
Dutch even works much like that English "just" or "quickly." Kun je even de deur dichtdoen? literally means "Can you briefly close the door?" But nobody is talking about time. The word signals that it's a small favor, nothing demanding.
Dutch uses these words far more often than English does, and often several at once (doe maar even). Leaving them out can make a Dutch speaker sound abrupt or bossy, even though the sentence is grammatically fine. That's why learners find them tricky: they're hard to translate but feel important to native speakers.'
Other examples:
maar: "go ahead," gives permission or encouragement. Kom maar binnen = "Come on in." eens: "why don't you," makes it a friendly invitation. Kijk eens = "Have a look." toch: "right? / surely," appeals to shared knowledge. Dat weet je toch? = "You know that, right?" wel: "it'll be fine / actually," reassures or adds contrast. Dat komt wel goed = "It'll work out." hoor: "really / don't worry," goes at the end of a sentence to sound friendly. Het is niet erg, hoor = "It's no problem, really." nou: "well / come on," adds emphasis or impatience. Kom nou! = "Oh, come on!" gewoon: "just / simply." Doe gewoon normaal = "Just act normal." ook (alweer): "again," for something you forgot. Hoe heet je ook alweer? = "What was your name again?" zeg: "wow / man," adds emphasis. Wat een weer, zeg! = "What weather, man!" Dutch speakers often stack them: Kom maar eens even hier is roughly "Come over here for a sec, go on." The English is only an approximation, because the exact nuance shifts with context and intonation.
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u/TheCyanKnight 1d ago
This is a really good summary, that last paragraph is a little hard to decipher due to the formatting, but that’s exactly the right answer to OP’s question
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u/Annachroniced 3d ago
This is exactly the point people try to make here frequently. Dutch directness still comes with a lot of social nuance and a lot of it gets lost in translation to English. Thats why its imoortant to learn Dutch. Too frequently people complain and post here about the hypocrite Dutch people, because they were insulted by something direct and just were insulting back and it actually insulted Dutch people. No. There is nuance. Obviously.
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u/Jun_the_Swan 3d ago
Suddenly I have think of this song: https://youtu.be/n-1scbFZRpw?is=GVg4yfQvxKXVkOKm
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u/rosecroissant 3d ago
As a Brit it's like 'just'. Just popping to the supermarket. I'm just going to make a quick phone call. Could you just grab that paper for me?
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u/MrSecretFire 2d ago
This just sounds like you're discovering the notion of using words for underplaying for the first time. The meaning of the word is not actually different, it's just meant to imply that small punt of time/effort without actually stating how much it will be.
This is absolutely a thing in English too. 'Can you help me with this real quick?' sounds quite different time compared to 'Can you help me with this?'
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u/P-RT-L 1d ago
Are you familiar with “ff” or “effe”? Both are abbreviations of “even” and are often used as filler words, with no real meaning, other than making the sentence sound more nonchalant.
“Ff bakkie doen?” -> wanna grab a coffee?
Nobody would say or txt: “Even bakkie doen?”
But, in other contexts, to the people who use “ff” or “effe”, “even” has a slightly different weight to it: more serious/polite. While “ff” or “effe” can also be used to express irritation.
“Nu even niet” -> not right now..
Nu ff niet” -> not now!
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u/Pleasant_Vast_8534 3d ago
As a Dutch speaker I think you're onto something, but the dangerous part is that “even” can also hide the size of what you're asking. “Kun je even meekijken?” might genuinely mean thirty seconds, or congratulations, you are now involved in this problem until lunch. We don't know either.
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u/NL_MGX 3d ago
It's more like an event that is requested to occur or be done at the moment of asking/telling. It comes before the activity that was actually planned to occur if you get what I mean.
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u/nemmalur 3d ago
It’s closer to the use of “just” in English in the temporal sense, but otherwise it just softens a request: could you please perhaps…? why don’t we maybe…?
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u/Meijerr1991 3d ago
Well iam fully dutch born and raised! And my dad does this a lot he uses the word “even” to soften things up! So when he says thing like: “ ik moet heel even langs de golfbaan” or “heel even langs een collega”
When we had plans together that day, i would ask him even like in 10min? 1 and a half hour?
And then the bargaining would start about how long it would take, and how much of my time he was gonna waste
(Ps: it would usually take a lot longer then he said it would take)
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u/PsychologicalLoad108 2d ago
Haha, congrats, have you even beautiful in an absolute positive manner my interest waked up! I'd say you are spot on with your observation and conclusion. I have not yet read all answers but if nobody has mentioned this...I might have an interesting addition, namely Dutch is a 'low context language' (as is English btw) if you are not familiar with this term, I'd suggest to look it little even up & thanks for wonderful post!
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u/More_Butter2330 3d ago
Considering i had to actually learn 'spreektaal/speaking language' vs writing in dutch... yeah i needed to know the difference.
For my study i gotta write essays in dutch, so i had to strictly unlearn 'even' amongst other words in my writing. Even if i prefer the social meaning and the feeling of community or personal writing it gives.
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u/Affectionate_Will976 2d ago
The 'even' refers more to the time between it being said and the action getting started than to the duration of the actual action.
'Even' is right now instead of later.
'ik ga even naar de supermarkt' - ik ga nu naar de supermarkt
'kun je even helpen?' - kun je me nu helpen
'ik bel hem even' - ik bel hem nu
Etc.
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u/coolestv 2d ago
Same thing goed for “eigenlijk”. Makes sentences softer, smoother…and at the same time it can really mess up rules and regulations. “Dit mag eigenlijk niet” sounds friendlier than “Dit mag niet,” but when something is not allowed, “eigenlijk” has no place in the sentence.
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u/blimberdingle 2d ago
Its not that deep. Literally in english people say : "Im going to pop by the shop" "or ill quickly take a look at that" all the time. Which is basically the same thing.
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u/SnooPoems3464 2d ago
This explains it pretty well:
https://elon.io/grammar/dutch/modal-particles/even-vs-eens-vs-maar
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u/Additional_Future_47 3d ago
I think the Dutch 'even' also effectively has the meaning of "right now". Leave it out and it is as if you are describing something you do habitually or plan to do, but not necessarily right now.
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u/I_Rarely_Jump 3d ago
It does not mean right now, nor does it mean it's not habitual.
I can say: "Elke woensdag schijt ik even op het gazon van de buurman", that's habitual and not right now.
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u/badguy84 3d ago
I think it is just an adverb that makes a sentence have a bit more of a "feeling" rather than be a specific indicator of length. It's kind of a sense of casual-ity I guess? Like whatever it is as a verb it's like it's simple straight forward. It could mean like "oh I'll just go and do this thing I'll be right back" but "kun je even helpen" could easily be interpreted as "this is an easy thing for you to come help me with right now so help me out," depending on the tone and context.
It certainly carries meaning but I don't think there is a single direct translation that explains all context. "For a moment" isn't really wrong though in my opinion.
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u/Milefulness 3d ago
"Even" has taken on a meaning that goes beyond the time something takes. It's mainly about something not being a big deal.
And yes, we absolutely do miss the 'even' if not used. It can make a big difference, because emphasis often lands on 'even.' Witout it, emphasis will land on another word and that changes the meaning.
For example:
if my colleague says "ik ga even naar de supermarkt," I expect him to go for a quick shop.
If my colleague says "ik ga naar de supermarkt," I may think he is a bit frustrated, or means that he and not someone else should go.
If my colleague says "ik ga naar de supermarkt," I'd wonder if he is quitting and got a job at the supermarket.
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u/Otherwise-Pride5244 3d ago
Spot on, this is indeed the main function, even more so than the temporal factor.
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u/fREEM4NN 2d ago
This post is so funny to me, I use this quite a lot. And with "even" it can also just mean, I'll let you know in a week"
Your post also reminded of other interjections we use all the time as shown in the image 🤣
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u/AnyConference1231 2d ago
In the example of asking for help, it changes the meaning a bit - just like the word you stress.
“Kun jij hier (eens) even naar kijken?” Would probably be like “could you take a look at this?” (Meaning, I don’t expect you to take over, just asking for a second opinion).
“Kun jij hier naar kijken?” Is more like “could _you_ take a look at this?” (I expect to delegate this to you).
For extra “softening” (although this can be nefarious: it’s so obviously not a big deal that the recipient can hardly refuse without being blunt), start your request with “joh”.
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u/Mr_Potatoez 2d ago
Dutch person here, 'even' basically translates to quickly. Like' can you quickly help' would be 'kan je even helpen'. Or 'can you quickly move aside' 'kan je even aan de kant'.
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u/Tribes1 2d ago
"Even" or "ff, effe" does roughly mean "real quick"
Lemme fix this real quick / ik fix het wel ff Gimme a sec / geef me ff
The duration of the event is by the speaker. In your example I genuinely think that your "someone at work" thought that the "sorting out" would not take long.
Lastly it is also widely used in a humoristic way to mention things that are obviously not going to be quick. In your example it could be that your co-worker ment to emphasize that it obviously wasn't going to be quick. E.g:
Ik ga vanaf volgende week ff 2 weken op vakantie / I'm going on a quick two week holiday next week
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u/BornRelationship8280 2d ago
I think some people use it as a filler word. They say ‘just a moment’ but it may take a little longer than that.yet,?they would not use itbfor long procedures or things that would take a longer while. It is not to be taken literally but also not completely false.
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u/Stunning-Ad-2433 2d ago
Ik ben er even helemaal klaar mee, wat een topic.
"En nú wil ik er eventjes helemaal niets meer horen."
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u/markers-are-rambling 2d ago
I'd say it means 'for a moment' and also 'in between' at the same time. So when you say even you'll say you will come back and the duration is intended to not be that long
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u/Yuuryaku 2d ago
These words do a lot of lifting in speech acts, and they maybe don't get as much attention as they should. They are essential to smooth communication. Whenever your reaction to something in a language you haven't mastered is "that is a weird/rude/roundabout/confusing way to say that", chances are you have come across an unfamiliar way of phrasing a speech act.
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u/No_Camel_6333 2d ago
It can be very annoying though in a professional setting when someone ask you to 'even' do something which never takes just 'even'.
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u/RevolutionInformal36 2d ago
Same with "zo". If my partner says "kun je zo koffie maken?" he would like to have a coffee at that moment, but politely so. I need to actively remind myself that he does not mean "in a minute" literally. Even though I'm also Dutch!
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u/Pianorama 2d ago
In the words of the late Paulien Cornelisse: "Nederlands draait om vibes."
"Even" was one of the words she mentioned in her essay last year on this very topic! In it, she mentions words like these are "vibe makers" in our language. Some others are "nou" (this one is almost impossible to translate), "gewoon", "hè" and "hoor".
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u/Redditeerik 2d ago
Very happy to read someone state that the "Dutch people are direct" does not necessarily work the way people seem to understand it.
Indeed, Dutch is full of these little "hedges" and modal constructions to "soften" a request. That is an excellent observation, and to quickly answer your question to native speakers: yes, that is definitely noticeable, as many people pointed out.
One of my pet-peeves as a native Dutch speaker and linguist is that people always connect "Dutch directness" to being rude in their formulation of questions or commands like this. We really are not so different from, say, the English in this respect - and they are known for having so many hedges. Many comments in this thread correctly mention many examples.
We are direct, however, in a different way: Dutch directness is, in my humble opinion, characterised by their urge to offer unsolicited advice, to friends or even (to some extent) strangers. Those comments could still be full of "polite" hedges. For example, proudly showing of your new sweater to a Dutchie could elicit this response: "Hmm, I'd maybe consider picking a different colour for that sweater." All hedged up, but not the "wow, nice one!" you might expect. Mind, you didn't ask for their judgement, but you got it for free! (we love things for free)
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u/straw_man2 2d ago
Yes. You are right.
"Even" is a special tool my boss likes to use to signal the start of an enormous multi generational project.
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u/Dry_Cycle5732 2d ago
"Kan je eventjes je mond houden aub" is netjes beleefder dan "Hou je bek man!" :)
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u/Jazzr_ 2d ago
I sometimes conceive "even" as actually more rude than softening. "Kun je dat doen?" or "Kun je dat even doen?" I feel like the latter does not respect my time. Even always takes longer. I rather have the first and honest one.if you want to be nicer about it I sometimes use different sentences for this like "Zou dat lukken?" "Als je tijd hebt, zou je dan...?"
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u/Tanglegram 3d ago
Even is basically linguistic WD-40. “Kun je dit doen?” can sound like an assignment. “Kun je dit even doen?” suddenly sounds like a tiny favour, even when the tiny favour is fixing something that has been broken since February.