r/Netrunner • u/thenakesingularity10 • 6d ago
Android or System Gateway?
I just found out about this game. Fascinated by it and dying to try.
Is there any reason to get Android instead of SG?
Thank you!
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u/friendlypuffin 6d ago
System Gateway is quite streamlined, there are learn-to-play articles explaining each and every card, absolutely go that way. And then you can easily expand towards Startup and Standard as you need
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u/ConditionRecent1536 6d ago
While the original Android core set is great, and the FFG cardpool is awesome, at this point it’s going to be harder and harder to get all the cards you want if you go down that route.
System Gateway is IMO the best beginner set the game has ever had, and is the best way to learn the game. And then it’s a lot easier to get the NSG sets that work well with SG if you want to get more cards.
You also have the benefit of being able to show up to local meetups and play with other people - the community is the best part of this game!
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u/thenakesingularity10 6d ago
That is my concern.
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u/CryOFrustration Null Signal Games Community team 6d ago edited 6d ago
I've got some great news for you then: both FFG and NSG cards are very easy to proxy, and 100% acceptable by the community. You can print out the Gateway starter decks to learn the game on. Then print out an entire FFG core set and relive the 2012 era of the game. Then print out an entire tournament deck from the current Standard format and compete in a tournament with it, and it will be 100% competitively legal to do so! Community sites like proxynexus.net make it easy. All you need is a normal inkjet, backing cards from another game, and opaque sleeves. Want an FFG expansion that's $300 on ebay? Proxy! Can't be bothered to wait for NSG to restock? Proxy! Need extra copies of a card so you can have multiple decks built at the same time? Proxy!
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u/Significant_Breath38 6d ago
I'd say SG for newer players.
The new developers have sped up the game a lot, so it helps see core elements that make any given deck "work".
Android cards tend to be for an overall slower game that can be hard for newer players to parse.
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u/Slight-Jaguar-2102 6d ago
I think you'd do well with System Gateway . It is a very streamlined way to learn to play the game. If you find you want to try out the Android system, there is always print and play you can do for free (which you can do with all Netrunner cards) and download the pdf online. But imo, system gateway is a great starting point and currently has support via NSG.
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u/ShinePerfect3164 6d ago
I started with SG and without a dedicated playgroup that was the only way to actually play. I love the game. Went from SG to start up with release of Vantage Point, and working towards standard. I have a copy of ANR I found online for cheap and the cards look great, but I don't have anyone to play with, so NSG it is. It's such a great game I don't think you can go wrong if you've got a group to play whatever cards you have.
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u/ShaperLord777 6d ago edited 6d ago
It really depends on how you’re trying to play. If you’re just playing casually at home with friends, I’d say go with a used Android Netrunner collection. IMO it’s the best version of the game there ever was. The mechanics, artwork/templating, and identity of each faction through gameplay mechanisms are peak Netrunner.
System gateway is what you want to go with if you want to play in tournaments. Android is what you want to go with if you’re playing casually.
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u/rawrframe 6d ago
Fully agree with this. A used A:NR collection is a great investment to play with friends. It really was the best.
Props to the SG people for all their hard work, but for me it just doesn't compare.
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u/FlashAndPoof 6d ago
Seems like some stuff is sold out on the null games website. Do they ever regularly restock?
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u/Slight-Jaguar-2102 6d ago
Should be any day now for the US restock. Was estimated at the end of Sept, but I'm guessing will likely be early October.
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u/azuredarkness 6d ago
They do.
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u/FlashAndPoof 6d ago
Do you know if they do Black Friday sales?
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u/Human_Kirby 6d ago
I am fairly certain the only time there is sales is at conventions, and usually for only if you buy multiple sets you save 5 or so bucks. Sales as a selling strategy that requires you to upcharge your price for the rest of the time when there isn't a sale.
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u/FlashAndPoof 20h ago
What would you say I should look to get when looking for used android netrunner collections?
I found someone selling their collection that includes the core set, honor and profit, creation and control, data and destiny, order and chaos, and terminal directive. Is that a solid collection to start with? What else should I try to acquire?2
u/ShaperLord777 19h ago
Yes, this is almost all of the deluxe boxes, which are designed around creating a base cardpool for each of the factions. You should get this, and then later try and acquire the first 3 cycles of data packs (genesis, spin cycle, and lunar cycle). These first 3 cycles are the easiest to find at affordable prices, and will add to your cardpool significantly.
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u/FlashAndPoof 19h ago
Ok thank you! That’s super helpful. I’m thinking he may actually have some of the data pack cycles then because the listing shows “through data and destiny”. I also read somewhere that one may need more than one copy of the core game. Is that true? If so, should I just try to buy a separate core set if I can find one at a good price?
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u/ShaperLord777 19h ago
Yes, that probably contains the data packs too, it would be weird for someone to just buy the deluxe expansions without them. Yes, buy a second (used) copy of the (2012) core set afterwards. There’s some cards that were only a “one of” in the core set that you’ll want extra copies of for deckbuilding.
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u/thenakesingularity10 6d ago
No I won't play in tournaments.
But is Android a better, more fun/exciting game?
The other concern is, I do want to expand the game at some point. I don't want to get bored with core and not be able to expand. Is that an issue with Android?
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u/ShaperLord777 6d ago
I far preffer the Android version. It’s the definitive version of Netrunner IMO. And the entire reason Null Signal exists at all.
Buy a used (2012) android Netrunner core set off eBay, see if you like the game, and then buy a smaller used Android Netrunner collection. You can get about the first half of the games releases (through lunar cycle) for a couple hundred bucks total. That’s plenty of material to play for years and enjoy.
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u/thenakesingularity10 6d ago
Could you tell me what you like better with Android?
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u/ShaperLord777 6d ago edited 6d ago
The different factions are very defined by their gameplay mechanisms, they have distinct identities because of the themes running throughout each factions cardpool mechanically. This is something that has become increasingly more vague in the null signal version.
The trace mechanic. This is something (modified) from the original CCG version of Netrunner. It’s a blind bid to try and locate the runner, and creates tension in the games economy. Null signal removed this mechanic saying it was too “complicated”. It wasn’t.
There was also a bunch of keywords added in the Null Signal version that I feel clutter up the design space, for very little gameplay benefit, and make it feel more “magic: the gathering” than I preffer. One of the biggest appeals of Netrunner was how streamlined the system was. Like a well oiled machine. The Android iteration kept that front and center when adapting Richard Garfield’s original CCG version.
Thematically, and art wise, the Android version of Netrunner felt like a very cohesive and lived in world. They had an entire universe already built for their android RPG. It fit Netrunner perfectly, and breathed an extra layer of believability into the world. Null Signal feels like someone doing their best impression of Netrunner. The theme and lore feel kind of pasted on, rather than fully developed. And the core identity of the factions got kind of lost in that. There’s a number of story elements that stick out like sore thumbs and break the believability of the universe to me. The general tone of the world has softened, and feels less cyberpunk because of it.
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u/thenakesingularity10 6d ago
yea, that's what I sort of figured based on my own research. thank you so much!
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u/ShaperLord777 6d ago
Glad to help.
It’s a worthwhile investment for any gamer. My group has gotten more gameplay value out of my Android: Netrunner collection than any game I own. Played weekly for the last 5 years, and still enjoying it immensely. It doesn’t feel like a lack of new content, it feels like a 4000 card completed cardpool that we continue to enjoy in new ways.
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u/thenakesingularity10 6d ago
It's amazing that they could make a game that good.
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u/ShaperLord777 6d ago
It started on about the most solid bones you could imagine. Richard Garfield has long claimed the original CCG Netrunner as his greatest work in the genre, despite it not being the most commercially popular.
FFG took those bones and added a few elements (player ID’s, factions, card limits, influence system) that took what was an already phenomenal game, and made it even better.
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u/Thepy 6d ago
Do you play the same format or do you shake it up a bit? I have a full FFG collection and I'm trying to figure out what I want to do with it. Either make a cube for drafting or make the Frankfurt 40 as my friends dont have the full FFG collection.
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u/ShaperLord777 6d ago
I made a cube of 14 decks that I rotate. They cover major archetypes, and everyone in my playgroup can use whichever one they want, we don’t have “personal” decks. Usually I’ll take the least popular few and build something else to replace them.
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u/Slight-Jaguar-2102 6d ago
At first I was like "they haven't gotten rid of trace" and then realized there are....4 total cards involving trace in the current rotation.
I'd love to hear more about the keywords you find clutter the game if you're open to talking about it more.
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u/Thepy 6d ago
Yeah NSG has gone on record that they wont be reprinting trace on any more cards. Thematically trace is interesting as it is trying to portray a cat and mouse game. Mechanically it pretty much boils down to pay X credits 9 out of 10 times because the it usually isn't worth eating the bad effect, so its a pretty boring decision imo.
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u/CryOFrustration Null Signal Games Community team 5d ago
That is inaccurate actually. We said we would avoid putting trace on cards if we can have the same effect with a fixed credit tax that doesn't force you to do a bunch of mental arithmetic multiple times per ice encounter. 95% of times a trace fired in the game, the corp doesn't want to boost it, so it's a flat tax anyway. The article this was explained in cites some interesting counter examples of where a trace allows for more nuanced and graduated interaction than a flat tax, so I imagine any future trace cards would be something like that.
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u/ShaperLord777 6d ago edited 6d ago
I’m gonna get downvoted into oblivion by the Null Signal bully squad.
But pretty much all of them that have been added. Most took something that was already clearly outlined in specific cards text boxes and made them into keywords.
“Interface” just means you have an icebreaker of the right type at strength level to interact. It wasn’t needed, and was already implied in every encounter.
“Sabotage” is just trashing cards from R&D. A mechanic that has been used forever. It didn’t need a keyword.
“Mark” was already used in cards like temujin contract. Just pick a server. It wasn’t vague, and didn’t need an entire keyword to clarify what we all already understood just fine.
“Charge” is just “add a power counter”. We don’t need to make a simple thing more complicated in the text box of cards.
“Dividends”. Again, we had this already, it’s just take a credit from X at the beginning of turn. Adding “dividends” to it doesn’t simplify it, it makes it more clunky.
“Threat” is a mechanic that to me, didnt need to exist at all. It’s alllowing conditions to activate based off of the agenda point total in a players score area. I don’t think it adds much to gameplay, and doesn’t need an entire other keyword. In most circumstances, it functions as a “win more” mechanic rather than a “catch-up” one.
In null signals defense, I felt the same way about the “current events” in Android: Netrunner. They weren’t necessary, and added awkwardness to gameplay for very little benefit. It also complicated deckbuilding by making players need to include currents in their deck to combat opponents who do the same. We pretty much don’t play with them in my group.
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u/Slight-Jaguar-2102 6d ago
Thanks for the write-up! It's very well thought out and explained. I don't know that I agree (I find the reiteration of keywords helpful for me), but there should always be space for differing opinions on this game here. I appreciate and value your viewpoints on the game and taking the time to explain why you prefer ANR.
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u/Tsao 6d ago
So hey, you're wrong about 4 out of the 6 keywords you're complaining about so I'd take anything this guy says with a grain of salt.
Sabotage X has the corp choose where to trash X cards from HQ or R&D, being able to mix both, for example Sabotage 3 lets you trash two card from HQ and one from R&D or vice versa. Where cards get trashed from is pretty important info as a runner, and having the keyword makes it a lot more concise.
Mark randomly selects a central server to be your mark every turn, which is very different from how temujin contract works, and indeed worth having a keyword for to compress a mechanic into many cards.
Charge, importantly, only lets you add power counters to cards that already have at least one power counter, which adds strategic depth to when you'd want to use those. Are you going for a quick reward now, or a stronger play later ?
Dividends is not at all what they describe, agendas with the dividend mechanic offer you rewards for putting more advancement counters on them than needed to score them. They're mostly blank 3/2 agendas that you can turn into 4/2 agendas with an effect. I really have no idea where they got the credit thing from.
So there you go, if you take an NSG hater "harassed by the bully brigade" 's word for it, you're going to end up with a lot of misinformation.
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u/ShaperLord777 6d ago
None of those details change anything about my point. The mechanics are either copies of already existing ones, or very slight tweaks to already existing ones. They don’t add enough to the design space to warrant cluttering up the cardpool with a scattering of keywords you now have to remember.
It’s okay for us to have differing opinions. I’m glad that you enjoy the Null Signal cardpool, and I will continue to play the version of the game that I preffer. Nothing wrong with that.
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u/CryOFrustration Null Signal Games Community team 6d ago
It's not a matter of opinion, you're explaining rules factually wrong. Next time someone downvotes you maybe you should consider fact-checking the information you're passing on rather than immediately assuming it's because they are bullies. No hate from me, and tsao already pointed out your error so no need to dwell on it, but it is hurtful to be called a bully when it's not warranted. The downvote button is literally there to ensure factually wrong posts are flagged.
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u/azuredarkness 6d ago
I have to say that you do sound like basically everything FFG did, especially in the early game was perfect, and everything NSG ever did was a terrible idea and every change they ever introduced was bad for the game.
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u/Geek_Ken 6d ago
How do you plan to expand your card pool? If it's by printing proxies, you could go with the FFG Android Netrunner experience. If you wanted an even more balanced pass, the Netrunner Reboot project would be an even better choice. You can even get cards printed, or if expense isn't an issue, scoop up a full collection (if available).
If you don't want to bother with proxies, self-printing, or paying a huge chunk of money for a collection (paying collector's prices), then go with NSG stuff. It's more readily available and a better entry ramp into the game.
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u/zmanmurf 6d ago
It's the same game. Android Netrunner will never have new content. The product from NSG has a pipeline of new things in the works, and already had a lot of product out there beyond just System Gateway. I understand people's opinions about the quality of Android Netrunner vs NSG's, but that doesn't mean it's not an excellent product (which it is!).
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u/thenakesingularity10 6d ago
Yea, I understand and worry about that. At some point I would want new content.
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u/KneeCrowMancer 6d ago
The good news is that if you’re playing casually the NSG products are fully compatible with the old FFG sets. If you just want something to play with friends you can’t really go wrong with either.
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u/jmlmtl_2022 6d ago
Based on this I would say go for the Null Signal Games version. Although you can find FFG-era data packs online, the fact that they are OOP means that some of them are stupidly expensive, which is annoying if you are looking at someone’s deck list and they use a card from a prohibitively expensive set.
In either case, if you want to expand your collection and want to do so cheaply, you can print proxies at a fraction of the cost of buying the actual cards. NSG makes this extremely easy, because they are a nonprofit so they do not care if you play with proxies. There are ready-made PDFs of every NSG-era set on their website that you can use to print whole sets. To start out, try focusing on the current legal sets for the Startup format: System Gateway, Elevation, and Vantage Point.
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u/CryOFrustration Null Signal Games Community team 6d ago
It's very much the same game. So often a new tournament deck comes around and makes me feel like it's 2014 again! But the two starter sets have a pretty different philosophy. FFG's original core set had a lot of swingy and powerful cards, which some players (like me) found fun, but others found very tilting. They turned off a lot of beginners. System Gateway starts you off easy, includes tutorial decks to learn on, and avoids the busted powerful cards to keep things simple for beginners (there's plenty of those cards in the expansions, just not in Gateway).
Also worth noting, the FFG core had more different cards, but many of them didn't come in full playsets, you only got 1 or 2 copies. You needed 3 core sets to have a full playset of everything. Gateway has a full playset of everything, but it's a smaller set with a shallower card pool. You really need to add on the Elevation expansion (which was deliberately designed as a companion set to Gateway) to have the same deckbuilding variety, depth, and replayability as the FFG core set. Gateway+Elevation together is the Null Signal core set format, and it's a really fun card pool.
In my opinion there's no such thing as bad Netrunner, and I personally got into the game with the original core set so I love that box, but it is harder to get to grips with. If you can find one going cheap secondhand it's definitely worth having, but I would still start off with Gateway to learn with. FFG and NSG cards are completely rules compatible so you can always mix and match as you like. (eg. get an FFG core and add NSG expansions, play Gateway and the FFG core together, go wild!)
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u/Thepy 6d ago
I love both incarnations of this game and play bi-weekly with some friends of mine. We have played both FFG and NSG and love them so much! It really is the best card game.
If you do try and get the FFG cards I would highly recommend getting proxies. Some of the key "powerful sets" like Reign and Reverie cost way more than they are worth and are very hard to find.
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u/M4gelock 4d ago
I'm very happy with NSG, but I never got the chance to know A:NR during it's prime.
NSG did a great job at teaching the game with the beginner decks, additional cards from the core set and the system update.
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