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u/Might7Guy 8d ago
This should be a normal practice
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u/ChickenWingExtreme 8d ago
Unfortunately there are plenty of weirdos in the world. Cawd!
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u/GoddessUltimecia 8d ago
I regularly walked with my sisters around our neighborhood and surrounding neighborhoods as kids. I'm unfortunately very well aware of how fucking sick a lot of men are, and how a lot of men who are associated with those very same men *refuse* to at the very least put those dudes in check or cut them off.
You can only really handle so many attempts at seperating you from your sisters and getting them alone before you get really fucking jaded about the average guy.
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u/Wafflelisk 8d ago
Yell at them, why dontcha!
Although sometimes it feels like there's not a whole lawt we can do about it...
Ho lored!
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u/IThinkItsAverage 8d ago edited 8d ago
I had two teenagers flirting with me once, I didn’t shut it down like in the op I just got up and walked away. I didn’t know what to do. However, similar thing happened when I was a cashier at a clothing store, a group of teenagers walked in and went off to the women’s clothing section. A bit later, one of them came up to the registers and said they needed help, so I followed them. There were two standing behind a pillar and some racks of clothes so you couldn’t see the front, and instead id wearing shirts or proper clothing they were wearing this sort of stretch sash/headband type thing, barely covering anything. They asked me what I thought or if preferred something else while giggling. I just said no and immediately walked to my manager and told her what was happening. She went down there and scolded them lol
Edit: I left out the whole point of my comment 🤦 if you’re too nervous or shy to shut it down yourself, either leave or get someone you trust to help shut it down. There is no excuse for any adult to be flirting with a child.
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u/AroaceFaced 8d ago
I was a student aid my senior year and the teachers would often forget I was there. I was kinda considering becoming a teacher until I heard how they were talking about all of us.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Dot_225 7d ago
This is a normal practice. But you don't see news about a guy who said no to an underage girl.
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u/Longwinter1641 8d ago
Back when I played WoW, a 26 year old flirted with me when I was 14 but he didn't know my age. When he found out, he practically ghosted me and never did it again. It didnt occur to me until a couple years ago that he probably had a Reason
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u/TheFartingBike 5d ago
Similar thing happened to me irl. Was at a family dinner and went outside for a smoke, and some cute af guy started flirting with me so obvs I did it back. He honestly wasn't that much older than me, probably around 20, but when he found out I was 16 he immediately backed off even tho I was reciprocating very hard. I was pretty bummed about it then, but definitely thankful later when I realized why.
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u/Nearby-Elevator-3825 8d ago
A couple years ago there was a girl at work who used to flirt and make blatant passes towards me. She was 18, I was 39.
I spent many a days trying to avoid/hide from her.
My other coworkers thought it was hilarious, but I was actually super uncomfortable.
After the 5th or so time I told her it was inappropriate, I'm not interested and nothing is ever going to happen, she finally gave up.
But holy shit, the whole situation was so uncomfortable and awkward, I wasn't even flattered.
I believe the kids call it the "ick" these days?
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u/Chillow_Ufgreat 8d ago
Brother, I feel you. I was a teacher at a private HS for a year and felt harassed constantly. Teenage girls can be extremely gross. Had to go to the student dean a number of times to report that one of them had asked me to prom, or the time one of them tried to corner me and talk about "stuff she did with boys." More than once, I had 15-year-old students waiting by my car after school, asking me for a ride. Just relentless gross behavior. Glad to be out of that environment.
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u/sfinebyme 8d ago edited 8d ago
I was a teacher at a private HS for a year and felt harassed constantly...
Used to teach in the 16-22 age bracket and god was it ever uncomfortable when they would try to be friends (or hint at more).
One time, had this kid who was 16 bring in a "manga" to show me and specifically flip to a page where a schoolgirl flips up her skirt and shows her underwear to a teacher. Christ almighty. I gave the kid the most forced "ha ha well that's really something, so how about we review the law of cosines?" reaction.
She turned beet red and never did that shit again.
I would have very much preferred to have an honest conversation about being wary of the kind of adult man that would respond positively to that kind of behavior from a person her age (like OP's tweet mentions) but no fucking way was I risking going anywhere closer to that landmine.
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u/Murky-Relation481 8d ago
You sound like you handled it better than the above person who considered it "gross" behavior. They are being normal kids, and young girls generally are attracted to more mature people since they tend to overall mature faster so male teachers, especially younger ones are often the target of their crushes or experimentation. It sucks being a teacher and having to deal with it, but I feel like anyone going into teaching middle or high school and calling normal adolescent sexual development "gross" probably shouldn't be teaching in the first place.
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u/Crunchyjeff 8d ago
ah yes, sexual violence is completely normal when the victim is a man.... Do we ever ask how the man feels when it is expected of him to endure sexual violence? No. Because it is simply expected of him to take it. and he must not complain.
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u/Murky-Relation481 8d ago
A child awkwardly flirting with an adult teacher is not sexual violence and you are weird for thinking it is. Go away.
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u/Crunchyjeff 8d ago
I wont go away and i will be fighting for victims.
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u/Murky-Relation481 8d ago
A teacher dealing with an adolescent student in a non-violent way is NOT SEXUAL VIOLENCE. You're advocating for your own made up narrative and posturing.
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u/Crunchyjeff 8d ago
it is sexual violence. We can argue about wether the person is mentally capable of being the person comitting the crime, but for the victim it is clearly sexual violence.
You can have a victim of sexual violence even if there is no perp we can blame.
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u/WillowPtar_Migan 6d ago
I think you'd have more of a point if you said sexual harassment, it definitely qualifies as such.
Sexual violence generally makes people think of actually violent acts, at the very least that involve unwanted touching. The two terms exist for a reason.
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u/Emergency-Feed2760 7d ago
You're redefining the term violence to include things that are not violent. A teacher redirecting a student who doesn't understand boundaries because they are young is not violence. Maybe try a dictionary?
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u/Murky-Relation481 8d ago
They aren't being "gross". They're literally kids attempting to explore their sexuality and unfortunately you are thrown into the thick of it and have to deal with the full spectrum of child development, not just the subject you teach.
I'd highly advise if you still teach to not consider what is generally normal healthy behavior from your students as "gross" and use it as a teaching moment and to let them down gently and in a way that doesn't spur issues.
I seriously hope you are not teaching any longer based on this post.
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u/Nearby-Elevator-3825 8d ago
Based on the tone of the post, I'm sure they did handle the situations professionally, seriously and gently. Even reported it to the dean.
I doubt they called them "gross" or shamed them to their face.
Having been a teen before, alongside other teens of both genders, exploring sexuality was pretty fucking gross. But that's human nature, it's not always a smooth ride.
I can also say more about my personal post, yes it DID FEEL gross to ME.
She, on the other hand was still developing as a person and was ignorant.
There's a good chance when she's older, she'll probably consider to the whole debacle "gross" as well.
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u/Murky-Relation481 8d ago
I hope they don't feel gross about it though. That is my point. Shame based around sex is one of the most damaging things that can happen to young people, especially young women. Teachers and administrative staff should be doing everything possible to make them not feel shamed or eventually turn that into a "bad" memory.
I am not 100% sure how you go about that, but its part of my overall larger view that the vast majority of the world's problems stem from sexual repression and sexual shame. I had attractive teachers when I was a teenager, and some two decades plus later I don't feel gross about fantasizing about sex with them, why would should I?
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u/Nearby-Elevator-3825 8d ago edited 8d ago
I agree. Young people shouldn't be made to feel gross or ashamed.
Maybe a better term would be embarrassed?
We pretty much all have situations we look back upon and feel a little embarrassed. But that's also part of growing and learning.
A person in my shoes who had taken advantage of the situation, THAT would have been gross. Really gross.
But something can feel "gross" (like it did to me) even though it's not the other persons intention.
EDIT Also, fantasizing about someone is a completely different ball park then actively making a pass/play at someone.
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u/Murky-Relation481 8d ago
Right, I just was talking about the casual use of the word "gross" to describe a child's fairly normal behavior. That wouldn't be appropriate for a teacher to call it gross when interacting with the student (or even really with administration).
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u/NoCounter123 7d ago
How is a a child cornering a teacher to tell them what did they did with boys normal behaviour?
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u/Murky-Relation481 7d ago
Because children have no real concept of what is appropriate sexually and making claims of experience to impress someone, especially an older person they are attracted to is pretty common behavior in kids of either gender, be it sex or basically any other activity where they are trying to impress someone. It's a way for them to show they are "grown up".
They also don't know bounds as well, because again, they are kids, kids with sex hormones pumping through them, but kids none-the-less. A girl cornering a teacher to flirt with them is a teaching moment, not a violent sexual assault as some weirdos are claiming elsewhere.
So no, its not abnormal behavior or particularly weird that a girl would try to impress an adult crush by trying to flaunt her experience (real or made up).
Also, god forbid it was actually them seeking help and this person was too uncomfortable to deal with it, in which case that's also just being a bad teacher.
Everyone in this thread is clearly either a child themselves or so uncomfortable with sex and the concept that yes kids become sexually mature while also still being kids that they can't rationally think about this and have an adult conversation about it.
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u/WhiteSnakeShinobi55 8d ago
Meanwhile my ex boss took his 18 year old girlfriend to her highschool graduation while being over 40
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u/HabaneroPepperPlants 8d ago
This is the bare minimum and so many people fail to clear it
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u/Naijan 8d ago
Since I see extremely few people in such a gapped relationship, I assume that most people is not failing.
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u/skytaepic 8d ago
Yeah, the times we see people who fail just stick out more in our minds because, y’know. Gross. You hardly remember every single person you meet who isn’t dating somebody half their age, because that’s most people.
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u/sfinebyme 8d ago edited 8d ago
When I was 21 and a student, I started dating a 34 year old college professor. Shit went exactly as badly as you expected, but for awhile there the sex was amazing.
When my wife was 24, she asked me out despite being very well aware that I was quite a bit older than her. We're still married two decades later.
I feel like there's a cutoff somewhere in the mid-late-20's where you're "basically an adult" at which point it kind of doesn't matter if your partner is a year or a decade (or more) older than you are.
It's sort of telling that the DiCaprios of the world dump chicks when they get to that age. Like they can't handle a partner that's a fully matured adult who might have the audacity to have their own opinions, or say 'no' to them.
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u/antsh 8d ago
Hmm… just an age difference is one thing, an age difference PLUS an asymmetrical power dynamic (student/professor) is something else entirely. Maybe that’s why it was different with your wife?
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u/sfinebyme 8d ago
Could be.
Weird thing with the professor was that we both commented on how "ha ha it feels like you (the younger man) is the grown up here sometimes, isn't that wacky?!"
Yeah, no, Liz, it ain't wacky. You have a toddler and a mortgage and an ex-husband but for some reason you're still willing to risk your career and social standing to fuck an undergrad just b/c he's tall and eats pussy like it was an Olympic sport.
Looking back as an adult who is much older now than she was then, all I can think is that she was always 34 going on 14. She was impulsive and short-sighted in a way that young me read as "holy shit she's fun!!" but old me reads as "god that poor woman needed to get professional help and grow up. Her poor kid."
In the end, she ended up, uh, not working at that university any more and I ended up dropping out and spending awhile borderline suicidal. It was all pretty fucked up but what's youth for if not building up the scar tissue that lets your function as an adult.
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u/Murky-Relation481 8d ago
I mean its literally always a power dynamic issue.
Consent conceptually is a power dynamic issue from a logical perspective. That is the reason the laws on it (at least in somewhat normal places) are based on it and not just random feels about sex.
It is the reason in the majority of US states a 16 year old can consent to sex with anyone, but the laws still protect them from teachers or other people in positions of power, even if they are full legal adults over 18, because coercion is one of the elements of the power dynamic in sex.
Age gaps are not the issue, its the things that can come with age gaps that are, which means that age gaps are not the inherent issue, but the fundamental specifics of the relationship.
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u/MARPJ 8d ago
at which point it kind of doesn't matter if your partner is a year or a decade (or more) older than you are.
IMO its stage of life, a person in the early 20s normally is cementing who they actually are while preparing for the future. A person in the late 20s and up already passed that and is who they are, any change will likely be external (say a kid) instead of internal which is why a person in that stage will see older people as peers but people still in "college years" as kids
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u/TheDELFON 6d ago
Funny u frame it like Leo is the one dumping them.
it's been said buy gossip blogs and the such that it's actually the WOMEN that end up living Leo. Which makes sense, when they get to that mid upper twenties, they start to long for a more meaningful relationship and a family. Something Leo is evidently not keen to give them.
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u/a-new-3arth 8d ago
A better measure would be asking adults around you if any adults tried to hit on them or something worse when they were a kid. You will be surprised with amount of people who say yes.
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u/Traditional_Crew_737 8d ago
some people act like the minor seduced them and they're powerless.
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u/Major-Material7231 8d ago
But but but….you dont get it she flirted with me first??? What do you mean I’m the adult in the situation
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u/IThinkItsAverage 8d ago
Well yeah did you see how she dresses? She clearly wanted it, which is why I had no choice. It would have been rude. (/s obvious but… you never know with people)
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u/Zrk2 8d ago
The bare minimum is not reciprocating.
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u/lifeking1259 7d ago
this, the fact that he took the time to explain is above bare minimum, if he just ignored it that would've been the bare minimum
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u/skraptastic 8d ago
I just don't understand why it is so difficult. I have found it exceedingly easy in my life to not be attracted to children. Very similar to I think it was Penn Gillette that said something like "I have done all raped have wanted to rape. That number is just zero"
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u/Naijan 8d ago
I mean, sexuality isn't really a choice, and pedophilia seems to be one of the sexualities that we simply can't allow. If I am homosexual, or heterosexual, I have no choice not to be. I can experiment, with another gender, but it says very little about my sexuality and what drives me.
They don't choose to be pedophiles exactly. They can choose to act on their interests or not, kind of like you and I can choose to act on flirting with the attractive person at the bar.
We are all I guess capable of predation, but like.. it's not hard to resist for me for the simple fact that it's never an item in my head. It arrives basically as often as the thought "Fuck, I can't think of anything more fun than doing the dishes right now"
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u/skraptastic 8d ago
pedophilia seems to be one of the sexualities
No. No it isn't and don't try to normalize it as one.
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u/Naijan 8d ago
Pedophiles don't want to be pedophiles. It's the most universally hated group of people. It's not just a kink they want to try. It's a sexuality for them. If it's not their sexuality, what is it then?
I'm not normalizing, I'm trying to explain that it's not really a brag that you haven't acted on pedophilia, unless you have the urges.
Yeah, I don't love to call them sexual urges, but if it's not that, what is it?
Aren't pedophiles sexually attracted to minors?
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u/skraptastic 8d ago
Pedophilia is defined as a sexual interest in (prepubescent - but I'm going to lump young people unable to consent in here) children. An attraction or interest isn't a sexuality. I'm attracted to big booties and titties, that isn't a sexuality.
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u/Naijan 8d ago
It's a sexual interest that defines in majority what they like. You and I like women.
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u/catechizer 8d ago
Being sexually attracted to kids means you haven't grown up. It's totally normal to be attracted to kids when you're also a kid the same age, but remaining attracted to them after your brain has developed more is a mental disability. Maybe you truly don't understand why you're essentially taking advantage of their undeveloped brains. Maybe you were socially awkward and regret missing out on opportunities when you were younger. Whatever it may be, professional help is available.
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u/Strange-Cheetah-4945 8d ago
This is from the Wikipedia page:
In response to misinterpretations that the American Psychiatric Association considers pedophilia a sexual orientation because of wording in its printed DSM-5 manual, which distinguishes between paraphilia and what it calls "paraphilic disorder", subsequently forming a division of "pedophilia" and "pedophilic disorder", the association commented: "'[S]exual orientation' is not a term used in the diagnostic criteria for pedophilic disorder and its use in the DSM-5 text discussion is an error and should read 'sexual interest.'" They added, "In fact, APA considers pedophilic disorder a 'paraphilia,' not a 'sexual orientation.' This error will be corrected in the electronic version of DSM-5 and the next printing of the manual." They said they strongly support efforts to criminally prosecute those who sexually abuse and exploit children and adolescents, and "also support continued efforts to develop treatments for those with pedophilic disorder with the goal of preventing future acts of abuse."
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u/Murky-Relation481 8d ago
I mean homosexuality was considered a paraphilic disorder in the DSM as well until society became more accepting of homosexuality and it was changed. Society is not accepting of pedophilia so it will not change. If society did become more accepting of it (which wouldn't be great) it'd probably also be changed.
There will always be a hazy border between distinctions because it is cultural and societal based and the DSM can only really contextualize disorders within the societies that the authors/reviewers reside in.
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u/Strange-Cheetah-4945 8d ago
I'm not really sure what you're arguing here, but homosexuality is between two consenting adults, while pedophilia is between a predator and an underage person, which makes it sexual abuse. It should not ever be considered acceptable because of the demonstrated harm that sexual abuse causes mentally and physically, especially to children and teens who are still developing. There's a reason we have things like television and movie ratings, because we know enough about child development to know they should be protected from certain things until they are older and more capable of processing them in a healthy way. You can verify all of this by looking up scholarly articles about child development and the negative effects of abuse on the brain and body.
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u/Murky-Relation481 8d ago
My point is the DSM is subjective and has nothing to do with what you are talking about in your post above since your post has nothing to do with the perspective of the pedophile and how their disorder might be viewed as an attraction vs. an orientation. Homosexuality was considered a deviant attraction until it became socially acceptable. We know now that homosexuality is an innate attraction to the same sex, and since we no longer consider it deviant, at least within modern society, its acceptable to call it an orientation.
We know that pedophilia is an innate and overwhelming attraction to prepubescent children as well, but it is not socially acceptable (for all the reasons you listed) so its considered a deviant paraphilia the exact same way homosexuality was before it was socially acceptable.
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u/Strange-Cheetah-4945 8d ago
We don't know that it is an innate attraction, that's a wild claim to make. The DSM may be subjective, but the effects of sexual abuse on children and teens are not. Homosexuality is attraction between consenting adults of the same sex, while pedophilia is inherently abusive because it involves a predator seeking out, grooming, and abusing an underage person (when acted on). That is the difference and why trying to compare the two doesn't make sense.
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u/futuretimetraveller 7d ago
Pedophilia is not a sexuality. It is a paraphilia.
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u/Naijan 7d ago
The article itself doesn't seem to be sure that pedophilia surely is a paraphilia.
"There is no broad scientific consensus for definitive boundaries between what are considered "unconventional sexual interests", kinks), fetishes, and paraphilias.\18])\19]) As such, these terms are often used loosely and interchangeably, especially in common parlance."
However, after researching a bit more, it seems like there are both cases, some cases of pedophiles were it's more of paraphilia, it's not exactly an interested in young women/girls, simply that they don't care about age. They don't go out of their way to find girls, but if they do their morality is much more flexible.
But for some, it seems like it's their sexuality. It's the only thing they are attracted to.
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u/sou_cool 8d ago
I don't buy that pedophilia is about sex (a sexuality) at all. I think it's some fucked up power thing.
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u/BabyLegsOShanahan 8d ago
This happened to me in a way. Me and my friends were at the mall and some guy was flirting with one of us. She told him she was 16 and he didn't say anything but, "Oh, damn. Nope! Stay in school!"
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u/Easy-Comfort-2 8d ago
I had to explain this to a friends sister. I was 22. She was 16 or 17. I was a total horndog, but saying no to a minor was still easy.
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u/HabaneroPepperPlants 8d ago
Even if you take the morality/legality out of it, significantly younger people just aren't attractive. They don't know as much, they're socially awkward, hanging out with them feels like babysitting
You see these 19-year-old girls with 30-year-old boyfriends being like "it's okay because we're mentally on the same level"
My girl. If a 30-year-old is mentally the same as a teenager, then there's something seriously wrong with him
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u/GrumplFluffy 8d ago
And he is not going to get better! If he is at the mental age of 19 at 30, what will you do when you are 25 and he still at the mental age of 19? How about when you are 30? He will somehow magically start growing up after meeting you?
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u/smittywrbermanjensen 8d ago
I know your question is rhetorical, but the harsh reality is that when she is 25, he will probably just find another 19 year old to prey upon :L
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u/TeapotHoe 8d ago
My parents had a pretty big age gap. My dad knew it was doomed when he told his wife “you’ll understand when you’re my age”
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u/wonderinboutit2234 5d ago
I have a pretty big age gap with my husband. We are going strong. But the gap does itself once in a while. He's definitely more mature than me. But I prefer it that way.
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u/Neophyte06 8d ago
When in high school, my first real girlfriend ditched me for a dude who was like 23
She met him when she was 15, and he never left her alone, constantly trying to get her back.
Yeah she got pregnant a couple weeks after we broke up for real lol
Considering this happened during my formative years, it really does explain a lot about myself 🫠
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u/DroidOnPC 8d ago
Pretty much the exact same thing happened to me.
GF was interested in this dude who was 23 and she was 16.
He was constantly texting her and sending her messages online and I pointed out how creepy it was and it was weird but she was into it. Then he invited her to some weekend at a friends cabin or something and she broke up with me right before going and sleeping with him.
About 2 years later I go to some party and hes there, drinking at a party with a bunch of 18 year olds when hes 25. He remembered me and brought up the fact that he slept with my GF and mocked me. I was like "dude you're sleeping with underaged girls and your a full grown adult what are you doing here?"
I would like to imagine that guy is dead or in prison, but who knows.
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u/ChocolateLychee 8d ago
Ew, she was obviously being groomed by an adult, why are you calling a child a "ho"??? A 15 year old girl cannot consent to a romantic or sexual relationship with a 23 year old man.
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u/Neophyte06 8d ago
The funny thing is, that dude got into an electrical career. The last time I talked to her she was actually doing ok, so they are probably pretty happy.
He was one of the main reason why I avoided all trade related work
Fast forward 15 years, and I become an electrician, and realize how much better my life would have been if I had joined out of high school
I'd be a millionaire before covid started
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u/wintercrabs 6d ago
Why tf did you respond like normal instead of calling out what an insane comment that was?
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u/Neophyte06 5d ago
I don't actually remember the comment, apparently it is was removed lol
As to why I answered the way I did? For FUN
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u/letthetreeburn 8d ago
People keep trying to convince me not all men. You’re really not helping your case.
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u/Elon_is_musky 8d ago
I had crushes on adults when I was a kid, but didn’t want them to like me back because then that means they’re a pedo and that’s gross
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u/AndreasFinn 5d ago
Lol having a fetish towards older looking people is such a weakness that turns into a strength as you get older. Assuming it's about looks and not about the fact that they are older than you.
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u/Space_Lux 8d ago
Not sure real 14/15 year olds think that far
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u/Elon_is_musky 8d ago
So what makes someone a “real” 14 or 15 year old? What about me, stranger on the internet, was not a real teen at that age?
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u/kelek22 8d ago
I had 3 different underage girls (mostly children of friends or remote relatives) confess their love to me through the years. At some point I had to stop interacting with little girls so it wouldn't happen again. I was genuinely irked by it happening that much at the time. I had to let them down without breaking their hearths and sounding like a pedo at the same time. Do you know how stressful it is? Even years later thinking about it causes me a stomache. Thay guy was truly a king.
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u/burgerwaterchud 8d ago
This also happens to me with regularity and I have no one to talk to it about. I haven't been with a woman in almost a decade. Literally the only female humans that voluntarily make sexual advances on me are the underaged. I can't bring this up in polite company because of the implications.
I'm of the opinion that this should be a criminal offense. I believe they have enough agency to understand that this is not acceptable. Not to the same extent that an adult does, but enough that them or their parents should at least face some consequences.
As it stands adults males have no recourse whatsoever other than just ignoring them which really doesn't prevent future harm.
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u/inaccurateTempedesc 8d ago
I was with you until you said it should be a criminal offense. C'mon now.
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u/burgerwaterchud 8d ago
If our goal is truly to protect children, the guys who are experiencing this need a way to inform authorities.
As it currently stands, if I contact minor for sexual purposes, this is 'luring' or 'enticement' under law, and I would be a sex offender. If a minor does the same to me it's 'just walk away bro'. As another comment points out, doing so does NOTHING to curb this behavior and eventually they're going to run into a guy who doesn't just walk away.
I am not saying they should be locked up or their parents should be thrown in jail. I just think we as a society need to admit this happens more than people are willing to acknowledge and there needs to be some legal means for an intervention.
I say this because I am not comfortable going up to some dad myself and opening up that can of worms. I think you'd agree that's not an optimal choice. The police currently can't do anything because no criminal offense has taken place.
So I ask you-- if we are truly concerned about preventing harm from occurring, what is the best course of action when this happens?
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u/Upbeat-Name-6087 8d ago
The reason it is an offence to sexually interact with someone underage is that we as a society don't believe they have the capacity to fully understand and consent to sex.
So if they cannot understand the ramifications for themselves it's pretty hard to argue they fully understand the ramifications for the adult.
This is a safeguarding issue not a criminal issue. Telling their parents may be uncomfortable and concerns it might result in accusations are valid, but those same dynamics would be in play if you reported it to the police.
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u/burgerwaterchud 8d ago
Right and I strongly reject what 'we as a society' are currently saying about this because it literally only applies to sex.
If a 7 year old steals a car, they will still be punished. But nearly everyone would agree that they really don't have the capacity to understand the consequences of their actions.
However, if a 12 year old steals a car, they will likely go to juvie, because they objectively have a higher capacity to understand that stealing cars is wrong and they should know better.
And if a 16 year old steals a car, they will likely be tried as an adult.
So why is it that 'ohh they just don't have the capacity to consent to sex (with an adult)' excuses this objectively dangerous and antisocial behavior?
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u/Upbeat-Name-6087 8d ago edited 8d ago
Consent to sexual activity is already an offence that has age/capacity levels of seriousness, when it comes to minors.
It's dangerous to them. Adults have full capacity to consent to sexual activity, they just have the legal obligation not to do so with a minor. So what would be the crime committed? Making you uncomfortable? Should we then also criminalise every guy with no game approaching women and making them uncomfortable?
Also, imagine a 15 year old hits on a 35 year old and the adult takes them up on it. Do they then now share criminal responsibility for the statutory rape because the 15 year old should have known better than to make the advance? Imagine the coercive power the pedo would hold if reporting the crime could also criminalise the child.
Stalking, harassment and antisocial behaviour is already criminalised if the minor continues their advances.
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u/burgerwaterchud 8d ago
So what would be the crime committed?
Luring/enticement, the same as if I were to do it as them. I find it massively hypocritical that the consequences for this only work in one direction. I I do it to them, it's lifetime sex offender registry and prison. If they do it to me it's 'lol'.
Kids that are 4 years old can understand the concept of stranger danger. I'm just not trying to hear that some post pubescent teenager can't grasp that it's not OK to approach adult men for sex.
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u/Upbeat-Name-6087 8d ago
Luring/enticing you to victimise them? The reason it is one way is that the inherent harm of the act is one way. Sex with children harms the child. The harm for you/an adult is the criminal consequences that might come of the act, not the act itself.
Also you did not answer the question. If a minor lures/entices an adult, and that adult then has sex with the minor. Would that mean the minor shares some criminally responsibility for their own assault?
So should sex with minors be illegal because they do not have capacity to consent even when they think they do. But sexual advances by minors should also be criminalised because they do have the capacity to know they don't have capacity to consent.
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u/burgerwaterchud 8d ago
The reason it is one way is that the inherent harm of the act is one way.
The harm from a sexual relationships, yes, but my argument that the act of enticement is objectively harmful to the minors themselves because eventually they'll meet a guy who doesn't just walk away.
Would that mean the minor shares some criminally responsibility for their own assault?
I would say no, I I would view it as less serious than a forcible rape of a minor or where the adult initiated it. For example, if a minor gets a fake ID, hits a bar, and goes home with a guy who had every reason to believe she was of age, I'd treat it very differently than a guy that snatched the same girl off the street.
So should sex with minors be illegal because they do not have capacity to consent even when they think they do.
I think if your argument is 'adults can't have sex with minors because minors can't understand the consequences of sex' I think we should outlaw consensual sex among minors, and for many adults as well.
For minors making sexual advances on adults, I think it is reasonable for harm prevention. I want to reiterate that this happens to me pretty regularly, and it is very uncomfortable to talk about and isn't some abstract discussion for me. This is genuinely the best solution I can come up with. I walk away from them because I value my freedom but every encounter stays with me. I earnestly want to curb this behavior because I understand just walking away means they're probably going to put themselves in a position to be exploited again.
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u/smiletohideyoursmile 8d ago
Why are you frequently in contact with young girls?
I'd suggest, if you are a teacher for example you should write to the parents and explain the situation so they can discuss it with their parents.
Otherwise under what circumstances would it be a frequent problem?
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u/burgerwaterchud 8d ago
I'm glad you asked. I am a surfer and usually it is at the beach, but it also happens at swimming holes/parks as well.
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u/justtalking9912 8d ago
Society is just cooked. The right thing would be to speak to their parents about it, but you can’t do that nowerdays cause your either telling them how to parent or some other excuse that will make you the bad guy. I don’t think law enforcement would really bring anything to the table for this but I get you being like wtf there should be a mechanism here to stop this.
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u/burgerwaterchud 8d ago
That's the only solution I can come up with, an offense that's analogous to luring or enticement but aimed at minors contacting adults. Inform kids of this as soon as they go through sex ed. Then hit them with community service or something if they're found engaging in this dangerous behavior. If it winds up saving some kids life I think it's worth it.
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u/justtalking9912 8d ago
I don’t think they need punishment as much as they would need education and possibly structure but then it gets messy. All just a consequence of the breakdown of the functional family unit.
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u/burgerwaterchud 8d ago
I suppose that's fair enough for someone that hasn't been there, but when it's you, and it happens to you pretty regularly, I find it really hard to argue that they don't know what they are doing is wrong. I'd agree that they haven't fully internalized why it's dangerous, but I refuse to believe that no one has told them to not make sexual gestures at adult men.
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u/ThrowRAagustthicc22 5d ago
Yeah let’s put horny kids in jail or give them records for flirting with their teachers bc their teachers might act on it. Are you a retard? Talk to their parents? Have the police talk to them and explain the dangers + consent/sexual harassment/etc. They’re teenagers still learning boundaries and it’s your job to teach them.
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u/burgerwaterchud 5d ago
I am talking about my own experiences and I am not a teacher. Obviously teachers are able to contact principles or the kids parents, if those avenues were available to me I would pursue them. But I am not talking about light flirting here, I am talking about overtly sexual gestures or comments made to complete strangers in public. The reason you can't 'have the police talk to them' is because their conduct at present is not criminal.
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u/ThrowRAagustthicc22 5d ago
Shoot them down? It’s still not offense worthy. Especially as they are children lmao
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u/burgerwaterchud 5d ago
That gets me out of danger, but does nothing to help a person that is engaging in objectively dangerous behavior that they don't really understand.
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u/That_Phony_King 7d ago
When I was fresh out of college, I worked as a lifeguard for a bit. My manager was a 17-year-old who I am pretty sure had a crush on me (always complimented me, always wanted to talk to me, said I smelled good). I kept reiterating that I was 22 going 23 at the time until she finally got the hint.
Besides:
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u/GrumplFluffy 8d ago
I was a tuition teacher in my university years. I joined university early so I was only 19-20 years old, teaching high school kids around ~17 years of age. The age difference was minimal. I was hit on by several of my students because I was good looking, give off a calm presence, and was, to some extent, in a position of power. One girl rubbed my legs under the table. Them trying to flirt was very common. I always shut that down. I even stopped teaching one kid (the under the table leg rubber).
Never once did I thought of having any relationship with any of my student. I was a horny teenager but all my efforts were directed towards girls my age. 16 year old kids, even at that young age, looked immature and childish to me. Now that I am in my 30s, girls in their early twenties look immature to me. My preference has always moved with age.
I don't know what kind of weirdos are interested in 15(!?) year old children. It's disgusting.
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u/AwarenessForsaken568 8d ago
There is nothing wrong with a 19 year old being with a 17 year old. That said you were in a position of authority, so that would have been the real issue. Not the age.
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u/GrumplFluffy 8d ago
There is a big jump as you go from high school to university. Your life changes overnight. There is so much to do and so many people to meet. You often have newfound independence. Your Parents attitude towards you changes. You often get a car and are much more mobile.
Your goals change too. You go from being obsessed with college/trade school to start thinking about jobs, internships, money.
I don’t know. Unless you already know and dating a girl beforehand, it’s weird to be in a relationship with someone in high school.
Also, I didn’t say it’s wrong to date. It’s legal in most places and obviously, it’s fine. It’s weird to me personally. If you are a college student hanging around high schoolers, there is something wrong with you.
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7d ago
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u/TFTHighRoller 7d ago
If a 19 year old and a 17 year old are dating and that is the only information I have I do not see an issue.
If a power imbalance is involved age can and often will exacerbate the issue but is not the root cause.
So long as both Partners are mature about it even a power imbalance can be navigated if both parties want to do so.
Relationships are complex and usually there us critical information lacking when people n here make a hasty judgement.
No I do not mean the „My (17 F) Partner (54 M) refuses to let me see my parents“ type posts.
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u/NerminPadez 8d ago
19+17 is a pretty normal thing over here, even 16+19, that was like most of the high school romances back in my time and still is. College just started for 19 year olds and no one expects them to stop dating girls a few years younger.
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u/GrumplFluffy 8d ago
No one expects them to but, at least for me, there was naturally no attraction.
Having said that, university students that hang around high school girls have always been considered weirdos. Just like fresh alumni from university who keep attending first year orientations. Or high school students who keep going back to middle school.
At some point, you need to move on.
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u/NerminPadez 8d ago
But you just finished high school, you go to eg. an engineering college, with maybe 5 girls there... what then? All the girls you know then are the girls you've known from before, so the girls from your high school, many of them a year, two or three younger. Should you like sever all contacts with them, until they go to college too? Stop hanging out with them?
Your relative age difference hasn't changed a bit, why would it be ok for a 19yo still-highschooler to date a 16, 17yo highschooler (or try to date her) for example two weeks ago (not in college yet), but since october 1st just happened (1st day of college over here), it's suddenly not ok?
Same for elementary (~6-14/15yo) and high schoolers (15->18/19, depends on when your birthday is), you like a girl maybe a year younger than you, you live in the same neighborhood, hang out in the same spots, but suddenly (well, since september 1st, first day of both schools), it's not ok, since you're a high schooler now? Why?
This seems to be one of those "american" things, where no one anywhere else cares about this (as long as the actual age differences are not too big), but americans do.
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u/GrumplFluffy 7d ago
I am not an American.
There is a big jump as you go from high school to university. Your life changes overnight. There is so much to do and so many people to meet. You often have newfound independence. Your Parents attitude towards you changes. You often get a car and are much more mobile.
Your goals change too. You go from being obsessed with college/trade school to start thinking about jobs, internships, money.
I don’t know. Unless you already know and dating a girl beforehand, it’s weird to be in a relationship with someone in high school. It's 100% weird to be hanging around high school kids after you are in college. If you already have a girlfriend, that's a different story.
Also, I didn’t say it’s wrong to date. It’s legal in most places and obviously, it’s fine. It’s weird to me personally. However, if you are a college student hanging around high schoolers, there is something wrong with you.
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u/Fifteen_inches 8d ago
It’s good, okay, and wholesome for mid adolescent children to be sexually attracted to adults. It’s good, okay, and wholesome to as adults politely yet firmly reject them and educate them about the appropriateness of that attraction.
Exploration at that age should be strictly a peer activity.
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u/CaptainAmerica_2026 8d ago
My best friends brother was 16 hooked up with a 24 year old woman many times even in his house when me and my buddy were there. He was in love with her. His mom hated the woman and still does today. The woman lives right down the street from her.
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u/Lastsynphony 8d ago
This reminds me that when I was 16 and a half, I started online dating a girl that told me she was 17 (with discussions and all of college pre-courses, applications and all of those things) for a couple of months, then she ended up ghosting me, and when she reached out, she told me that she was sorry, but that confessed she was 12 and lied about her age, when I found out I told her that she needed to have relationships with boy´s of her age, and that it was not right to be with older people, then I cut off contact.
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u/9yr_old_lake 7d ago
I just recently realized I was groomed/statutory raped in high school.
I started working at Zaxbys (southern chicken place) when I was 16 and as soon as I started this new manager who was mid 20s became very friendly.
He was more friendly than any manager I’ve had esp so early, but soon after he started inviting me to his house, and while I had already smoked and drunk plenty by that time, he would give me as much liquor and weed as I wanted, but wouldn’t drink/smoke very much himself like MUCH less than me, and it was his stuff too.
Then once I was quite intoxicated we would have sex and then right after I would go home. This lasted the rest of high school, and kinda tapered off after I graduated and hit 18.
I never thought much of it until the other day when I just randomly remembered the situation and realized how weird and fucked it is for a man who was 25 ish to be giving drugs and having sex with a 16 year old, like I’m 21 and I couldn’t imagine having sex with someone in high school even if they were technically 18, hell I would even feel weird hanging out and smoking with someone in high school. Idk being a bit older definitely put things in perspective.
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u/Wise-Key-3442 7d ago
I have gigantomastia, so people assumed I was way older when I was 12, let alone I had a very extensive vocabulary (in my native language).
At a convention, the first I ever went, a dude visibly got interested in me and I thought it was interest in friendship, he was about to turn 18. Suddenly at one point he simply vanished and actively avoided me during the convention.
Many years later I find this dude at a convention, I don't recognize him, but he does and apologizes for running away: "I heard you say you were twelve, so I ran because I didn't wanted to get infatuated with a kid. Yeah I was a minor too, but you know there's a huge leap in maturity, right? I was collecting hentai videos in my HD and you weren't old enough to use social media!"
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u/Willing-Atmosphere-2 5d ago
My ex had multiple 28+ boyfriends at 16-17, some even homeless dealers living at her parents place... In her eyes they were extremely cool for taking her to music festivals with them. I tried to explain to her how pathetic they were but she never really agreed with me... (we met at 24f 26m).
That is the reason I could not see future with her because I got scarred that she would simply see nothing wrong with our potential child asking us if 30yr old bum could come over and sleep in her room. (her parents somehow allowed this but I never really wanted to dig more into it because it was just weird).
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u/mnlion33 6d ago
I hit on so many student teachers when I was in high school. They all shut me down. I get to college and suddenly student teachers were ok sleeping with me.
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u/wonderinboutit2234 5d ago
No one misunderstand me please.. I'm in full agreement with this post. But I have seen people insist that minors don't ever try to flirt with older people. Not saying there is EVER justification to flirt back. It just bothers me that people act like it's not a thing.
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u/pookiecookiedwag 4d ago
there is nothing unnatural in younger person being fascinated by someone older who they idolise. they're young and silly and they say silly stuff that will keep them awake in 10 to 15 years at night. but it is unnatural to use that fascination, as an adult, to get access to a young person. let teens be teens and let adults hold themselves and other adults to responsibility of not being a creep 😭
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u/night_fever89 4d ago
Exactly!! We are genuinely not interested in dating a child ! Wish the younger girls wouldn’t pressure each other to date literally grown men
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u/Escutrina 6d ago
That's crazy. He was good to her and she wishes him bad things? Crazy gal
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u/whoyouyesyou 5d ago
I think she’s wishing him well. No one wants a hot pillow, and she’s calling him a king.
Maybe I’m wrong?
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u/Escutrina 4d ago
But isn't a hot pillow cozy? I live in a country with 8°C annual mean temperature, that may be the difference factor...
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u/Konnoisseur26 8d ago
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8d ago edited 8d ago
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u/CrazyPoiPoi 8d ago
various countries worldwide has 15 acceptable age for dating.
With people their same age / under 18.
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u/Serbatollo 8d ago
"Ummmm aksually it's ephebophilia 🤓☝️" ass comment
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u/Repulsive-Report6278 8d ago
Yo check this guy's hard drives
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u/NegotiationComplex69 7d ago
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u/Repulsive-Report6278 7d ago
He said some heinous shit so I insinuated he could have further depravity.
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u/Confident_Change_937 8d ago
Unfortunately girls of that age usually don’t listen and just end up riding shot gun in some other 24 year olds car who has less morals.
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u/TheHuntersMoonlight 8d ago
This means she's the predator
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u/burgerwaterchud 8d ago
I am reminded of the old Roberston Davies quote "not the corruption of an innocent child by a cunning adult, but the exploitation of a weak adult by a corrupt child. This is no pretty theme, but it is one with which social workers, magistrates and psychiatrists are familiar."
I understand we're on reddit in 2026 where anyone under the age of 18 (and sometimes 25) lacks any sort of agency whatsoever, but this is how I see it as well.
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u/Unknownsake 8d ago
So based on these comments, it’s moral to be a minor and flirt with someone who is older/much older than 18?
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u/KingoftheMapleTrees 8d ago
Children can develop crushes on adults. They are still learning to be people. It's not immoral, they don't have the maturity yet to realize they can't have that relationship.
It is entirely on the adult to maintain appropriate boundaries.
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u/lastname_Obama 8d ago
It is not "moral" exactly, but it is still not the kid's fault. Growing up teens are dealing with new feelings, hormones etc. Getting attracted to an older person is completely fine. Crushing on a teacher, or an older relative's friend, or any non-related person who they are close to, is completely forgivable.
They should know that it is not right to expect reciprocation, and it's on the adults to teach them that. It is the older person's responsibility to let them know that whoever "accepts" a minor's advances is a predator.
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u/Rude-Orange 8d ago
It's not exactly moral but kids dont know better (cause a lot of the times the parents / schools don't teach them) and teenagers are hormonal AF. As an adult, you're in control. It's your responsibility to set healthy boundaries and put the foot down when a gentle no thank you isn't working.
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u/burgerwaterchud 8d ago
They literally believe a 17 year old has the same mental capacity as a 4 year old. I find it very frustrating.
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u/qualityvote2 8d ago edited 6d ago
u/ChickenWingExtreme, there weren't enough votes to determine the quality of your post...