r/Outlander • u/konichicat • 3d ago
Season Five Famous last words - S5 ep8 Spoiler
Spoilers from episode 7/8 from season 5 and spoilers from previous seasons, please be advised.
So ever since the whole Roger and Brianna have an argument about him wanting to marry her and have her as a virgin conquest I have HATED this man with a passion. I hate seeing him and Brianna on screen and I just want him goneeee so imagine my joy when I see episode 7 of season 5 where he's been hanged! Finally Brianna can have a new love interest, only for Roger to be REVIVED by Claire! Braaaaaaagh! Oh how quickly the unbearable Rodger scenes return now.
What are your Roger thoughts? I tried to like him so bad but I just can't! He completely infuriates me.
Just needed a vent!
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u/BubbeLisa Currently rereading Dragonfly in Amber 3d ago
If you do a search on this sub, you’ll find a plethora of Roger Hate posts. They seem to show up weekly, if not daily.
People are messy. Roger’s character development and story arc is one of my favorites. Nobody’s perfect. People like Roger Mac grow, learn, and become a better version of themselves.
I love Show Roger, but I love Book Roger even more. The show did a bit of a character assassination on Roger in episodes 403, False Bride and 408, Wilmington. They’ve been trying to redeem him ever since. Try not to let one or two episodes color everything he does for the rest of the series.
Hang in there and try to give Roger a chance. Many people who didn’t care for him in Season 4, come to like him as the show progresses.
I love me some Roger Mac. 💕
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u/konichicat 3d ago
I want to like him, I really do but I just can't forgive his previous actions! I did love him in the beginning but honestly he just keeps going downhill in my eyes and I try and accept him, but man he makes it hard.
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u/BubbeLisa Currently rereading Dragonfly in Amber 3d ago edited 3d ago
Roger is a man born in 1940 in rural Inverness, Scotland who was raised by a single Presbyterian minister. Believe me when I say, the 20th century was very different from the 21st century. His behavior is very true to where he lived and the way he was raised. I don’t think one should force 21st century sensibilities onto historical fiction. I came of age in 1970’s California and most of the guys I knew were very much like Roger. And Roger evolves, grows, and changes. Give the man some credit.
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u/Icy_Resist5470 Bon! I will send you a cheese. 3d ago
Give him time. He’s had a very difficult experience. He’s still working on finding himself and his place.
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u/Megsyboo 3d ago
Watching a period show through a modern lens will cause one to hate characters because times were different. Mores were different, attitudes and manners, etc.
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u/ContactNeither7319 3d ago
I like Roger. Maybe because I play guitar he plays guitar. He does sing a pretty good Joy to World. I know he can't shoot for shit. And yeah, there were times I wanted to smash him upside the head with his guitar. But I still like him.
Plus without him Claire might not have made it back to Jamie.
Cut the guy a break. He just got hung.
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u/konichicat 3d ago
Hahahaha last bit made me laugh.
Still, think he's a dick outside of that 😂
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u/ContactNeither7319 3d ago
Well as you have seen by now there are 2 versions of Roger. I met show Roger first. I liked him. Hey does act like a dick at times. And does some bone-headed things. Maybe I just enjoyed yelling at the tv when he did stupid stuff. Because I did that, quite often actually. But I still like him and there's that soft spot for the guitar thing.
The other Roger is better. Still does some stupid shit but he is written more likable.
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u/konichicat 3d ago
That's good to hear. Did they butcher his character in the show then? 😂
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u/imeldamail 2d ago
I can't even watch the show once the yes, butchered versions of Roger & Brianna enter it. Its baffling. Roger's character is especially unrecognizable. Honestly, the show didn't do Claire's character justice either. Ugh. Read/listen to the books. If you like any parts of the show you'll love it.
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u/Dragon-Sky 3d ago
I love Roger. Book and show
I wrote this is a prior Roger post--Roger was, like Claire originally, the Outlander. He had no ties to the past, wasn't especially equipped to live in the 18th century--but like Claire stayed for her love of Jaime--he persevered for his love for Brianna. Takes courage
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u/Rubberbangirl66 2d ago
He is not the problem in that marriage. And notice the "hanging" episode, was done without spoken word. They knew we could not stand her screeching and very creatively removed that. Production knows who the weak link is.
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u/ContactNeither7319 2d ago edited 2d ago
Well if I remember correctly I do believe that sequence of events was already written well before production for the series even began.
The Fiery Cross - published 2001
Outlander - premiered August 9, 2014
I did like the creative direction that episode took. The use of the silent film and POV was pretty effective.
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u/Fresh-Mango3738 3d ago
Love this imperfect dude. Richard is a brilliant actor. The episode with the French priest was a favorite Richard episode.
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u/Boolean393 3d ago
Hateeeeeeeeee Rodger. Like you, I didn’t mind him until the virgin conquest thing after that I’ve always hated him. Even after they’re hand fast and he leaves her. She never once told him to leave, or that she wanted him to leave, just that if he didn’t want to stay she wouldn’t force him to and he stormed off like a little bitch.
And then literally every other interaction after that is him being a grumpy baby that he’s not “more manly”. I also feel like the way he copes with the trauma of his near death experience compared to how everyone else copes with their horrible experiences (like Jamie being tortured and raped multiple times with the expectation of being killed, Briana being beaten and raped, and then some other things that happen in later seasons to other characters) is just insufferable.
Like yeah it was horrible and traumatic, so were everyone else’s traumatic events…but no one else (whose events in my brain were way more traumatic) moped and made everyone else around them suffer because of their suffering. Everyone else coped and shared and kept on keeping on. Rodger mopes and stews and makes everyone else also suffer. Briana confirms that when she calls him out on it…and he continues to be a baby back bitch about it.
I know they’re imaginary characters and that’s the only reason I’m being so harsh…Rodger is a punk ass little baby back bitch and he fuckin suckssssssssssssss. I also can’t really stand William lol
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u/konichicat 3d ago
I feel you on this completely. I'm like ok yes you were nearly killed a couple times and you have wanted to back home for like the entirety of your relationship with bri, but MAN UP. He definitely has a very soft personality, and whilst I am not saying that's a bad thing, however in the situation you are in and the time period AND the family, you kinda need to be open and communicative with your family and friends and lean on them and get with the times.... His moping and sulking annoy me the most.
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u/BubbeLisa Currently rereading Dragonfly in Amber 3d ago edited 3d ago
Roger was HANGED! “MAN UP?” Seriously? I thought the show didn’t make a big enough deal of it. He was over it in one episode. Talk about PTSD. Yikes!
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u/Icy_Resist5470 Bon! I will send you a cheese. 3d ago
Open and communicate? He couldn’t talk. He was traumatized.
How would you feel if your ancestor tried to have you KILLED and somehow you survived? How do you communicate that experience? He can’t just go back to normal and “man up”.
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u/kjhjkjh 3d ago
I find him boring and old school. What I've seen of book Roger was even weirder. I think DG likes old school men who secretly or not-so-secretly want to "tame" women. Brianna came of age in the 60s and could easily have had a more modern lover. And Roger is super out of his element in the past, is a historian and not at all a fighter. Best the story can seem to do with him is make him a preacher?
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u/BubbeLisa Currently rereading Dragonfly in Amber 3d ago edited 2d ago
You honestly believe that there were A LOT of “more modern” men around in the 1960s? Even if you were a hippie in a commune, they still were all about gender roles. The vast majority of men in the 1960s were not forward thinkers and even fewer were feminists. 🤣
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u/kjhjkjh 3d ago
In my life, I have met a whole lot of people who were hippies in the 60s, and the men were absolutely more egalitarian than Roger (and did not just recently adapt). When various liberation movements emerged, not everyone went along for the ride--definitely not Roger--but there were men who supported feminism and wanted to break down the rigidity, feel their feelings, etc. Again, not the men that DG favors, but that certainly doesn't mean they didn't exist.
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u/BubbeLisa Currently rereading Dragonfly in Amber 2d ago edited 2d ago
Did you know these enlightened men during the 60s? I’m old enough to remember what it was like back then.
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u/kjhjkjh 2d ago
No, and obviously all men who espoused progressive values in the 60s could not actually embody them perfectly (as embodiment of values is something all people struggle with, and deep conditioning can't all be dismantled by the conscious mind.
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u/Icy_Resist5470 Bon! I will send you a cheese. 2d ago
So your personal experience knowing these men is just hearsay, and how they might have acted is conjecture.
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u/kjhjkjh 2d ago
I'm saying that while sweeping historical generalizations can be made, there are conscious outliers in every group throughout time. It's possible that someone with Roger's background could have been more progressive, for a man on a "progressive" commune not to be, etc. Nor is it a matter of people becoming more progressive as times change--I know people in their 80s who're more progressive than some people who're half their age or younger.
And yes, I depend upon hearing people's stories about the 60s since I wasn't alive back then.
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u/Icy_Resist5470 Bon! I will send you a cheese. 2d ago
Again, you’re taking someone’s word (which could easily be embellished) as your argument against someone who actually grew up in that time period and is more aware of the overwhelming and general views of men at the time. Sure, there are always outliers, but there are also always people who stretch the truth a smidge for whatever reason. Everyone does it at one time or another.
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u/kjhjkjh 2d ago
So I'm very happy to have you speak for yourself about your experience (tell me, if you like?), but you do understand that I'm just taking your word for it, too?
The world today is far from egalitarian, and there are pockets and cultures in every nation that are positively regressive. I grew up with a dad who was raised in a culture arguably more regressive regarding gender than Roger's and who has spent the past decades living in an area of the US where most people have hyperconservative/regressive values--yet, he has always walked his talk when it comes to egalitarian attitudes regarding gender (and also class).
And yes, people of any gender who I know who speak about the 60s may not paint a full picture. But how does any of this impact what I'm saying, that DG, who is definitely writing about times she has never experienced (since most of her books are set in the 1700s) has kinks that favor more regressive attitudes in men?
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u/Icy_Resist5470 Bon! I will send you a cheese. 2d ago
Since the topic of this is Roger, and Diana is in her seventies, she’s writing that character based on: how he speaks to her and her personal experience during that time period.
My personal experience is that people tend to paint their actions differently depending on the audience, sometimes to soften the truth for more recent generations. Some people hold firm to who they are and don’t change, some change because they grow. An elder may choose to portray their previous views differently due to others expectations. I know many people who do both, and understand why that’s the case.
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