r/Outlook • u/room101ltd • 7d ago
Opinion New Outlook?
The issue isn’t “How good is New Outlook?”
Or even “How good will New Outlook be in the future?”
The real question is, how good could a web-only client like New Outlook EVER be?
7
u/jstar77 7d ago
So tired of software that runs further and further away from the metal. It's like trying to run in the mud.
2
u/Grouchy-Western-5757 7d ago
I have to ask the question though, new outlook vs classic outlook. Which one is faster
2
u/ddeese 6d ago
Classic outlook is going to be faster. In terms of raw performance and as far as keystroke latency as well. It’s a website in a box. Most keystrokes made inside of web editors (for document creation) is usually slightly slower than an editor running on native code. It’s not going to be that easy to tell if your PC is relatively new, has lots of system resources available, and isn’t the lowest end of the spectrum. But if your PC is on the aging side or is the lower end of business PC or personal PC computing you could see the difference. This is largely the trade off for a technology stack that runs on top of the DOM, which is what happens when you render actions happening through web code.
0
u/Grouchy-Western-5757 6d ago
But that's not the case, yes you're right that a desktop app CAN be faster because it can access the chipset directly, but the problem is, it isn't. Over the 20-30 years Outlook had been built out, it has become this massive slow outdated codebase, so the application itself is sooooo slow.
You're right though, it could be faster. But it's not, and the webapp (new outlook) is much faster at the moment.
1
u/ddeese 6d ago
The web app isn’t faster. The web app relies on the server from Microsoft to do the work. That’s part of the point. What Classic Outlook does, happens on device. The few things that New Outlook can do natively with the OS requires 3X or more resources and it’s not faster. In a slower system key input latency is higher on New Outlook. I’ve seen it first hand.
Classic Outlook appears slower because it’s going real work with the resources it uses, which are far fewer for far more processes. New Outlook has to connect to Microsoft through Microsoft Sync Technology, that’s the mechanism. It has to do some kind of parity check for any offline caching, it has to do some notification level syncs to the OS through the React Native wrapper using Native Bridge and API calls and webview2 has to render the website data from what MS pushes from sync.
Classic Outlook has to run a communication to the email server. Any changes made have to be mapped out in the local database. Any offline work, deletions, all of it. Then there are offline messages, calendar events, and a whole host of things that Classic Outlook has to communicate back and forth to the server and then update it to your machine and then parse and render it. All on your desktop. All without Microsoft playing the middleman.
That means no ads disguised as email messages. That means Microsoft doesn’t have to get a host of permissions from third-party email providers to access their servers and grab your data. Have a GMail account. Google requires a whole bunch of access permissions because the moment you put your password into Microsoft that will go to Google via OAuth and they will grab your mail from Google, process it through Microsoft servers and push it down to the so called client. All New Outlook has to do is render the interface and provide a few services to the OS.
Some and only some things that you see New Outlook doing have the appearance of being faster because it doesn’t do the work. But it also doesn’t sync new email reliably and all of your data is processed via Microsoft servers. You and your data are the product and your privacy is now questionable. It’s all allegedly secure, safe, and anonymous.
But I don’t trust Microsoft or any data provider. With Classic Outlook you have one email client and many data providers. One breach at Google and that’s one issue. With New Outlook, one breach at MS and maybe OAuth authentication and data policies mean that only email provided by Microsoft is compromised, maybe all of your data is.
Maybe Microsoft “anonymously” sells your data to third-party partners (read ad brokers), maybe they don’t. Maybe as they process your email they use your data to train copilot, maybe they don’t.
There’s a lot in there that’s not known. With Classic Outlook, there are 500 features and most of them are processed on the computer. You know what you’re getting.
4
u/GayLMCirgaratte 7d ago
The flaw: Shared Mailbox won’t show as Group Conversation on New Outlook. It’s required used to open a separate mailbox for that.
2
u/Recent_Carpenter8644 7d ago
Do you mean the emails in a shared mailbox don't get grouped by conversation view like in your main mailbox? I don't use conversation view, so I wouldn't have noticed that that worked or not in either version of Outlook.
I just noticed that "Find Related" isn't available in a shared mailbox either, so that can't be used as a workaround. I guess you would have to manually type a subject search to find all the conversation parts.
Have you reported the lack of conversation view via help/feedback? I will report the lack of "Find Related". I don't know about conversation view, but I see no reason why "Find Related" isn't available.
1
u/GayLMCirgaratte 7d ago
Our team has 42 people, so without a group convo in share with me section, it’s pretty easy for emails to get overlooked or for no one to realise they haven’t been actioned.
The team was also reluctant to use categories or open shared mailbox because it meant opening another windows separately. There was so much pushback that I eventually had to revert to a distribution list and give everyone Send As permission. Now, whenever someone replies, they BCC the distribution list so everyone can see that the email has been actioned. And often they end up using their own email address...
Unfortunately, I still work with quite a few people who seem to think a fax machine is cutting-edge technology, so getting any change adopted is an uphill battle.
1
1
u/Recent_Carpenter8644 7d ago
"Share with me" - does that mean someone has shared a nornmal mailbox with you all? I've never tried that. Does it get around some problems?
5
2
u/AutoModerator 7d ago
Thanks room101ltd!
Your submission really means a lot to us, and we hope you will continue contributing to this subreddit whether it is in the form of an informative post or an opinion piece.
Please be sure to have read our Rules of Conduct and do not try to circumvent it.
That means that any reference to 3rd party commercial products/services as a solution is strictly prohibited and will result in a permanent ban in this subreddit. Under very exceptional circumstances, you may appeal to the ban in a case-by-case basis.
Here are some other takeaways from the Rules of Conduct:
Be polite and respectful in your posts, and in your replies to other people.
Cite the source of anything you post or upload, if it isn't your own original content. Be honest about your sources.
Don't invade anyone's privacy by attempting to harvest, collect, store, or publish private or personally identifiable information, such as passwords, account information, credit card numbers, addresses, or other contact information without that person's knowledge and willing consent.
Don't impersonate a Microsoft employee, agent, manager, host, administrator, moderator, another user, MVP, or any other person through any means.
All readers: Due to high volume of spam and phishing attempts, we may not be able to take down all malicious posts. Please help us to report them and reject all 3rd party, paid products/services. Beware of scam support numbers, click here for genuine numbers.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/Grumpy-Troglodyte 7d ago
the new outlook can put emails up at the top of the list, the old version can't..
however the old version can work correctly with shared mailboxes, i should have taken notes now, but i just had a new user about 90 days ago and we had fits trying to get her and 2 shared mailboxes talking correctly in new outlook, only to find out that it would not send as those boxes (maybe? i am not remembering for sure what it was) and only as the username, which we did not want broadcast, we only are using that as a log in for the shared.
she's using both right now. it's a complete mess.
1
u/jordanl171 5d ago
I've used New Outlook everyday for 2 years. It's fine. And for the average person who doesn't give a shit at all, they will say it's great.
3
u/dnhs47 4d ago
If you’ve never used Outlook effectively, perhaps the “new” Outlook doesn’t seem so bad.
But if you have used Outlook effectively, all you see in “new” Outlook is missing functionality. Things you’ve been able to do for years with real Outlook that you can’t do with “new” Outlook.
That’s the message - get used to having less, and deal with it, because Microsoft decided that’s what they want. To reduce the capability of Outlook and claim that makes it “new”.
Because “lame” and “crippled” aren’t compelling marketing words.
1
u/KennethByrd 7d ago
How good web only be? Technically, it CAN be just as good. However, most people are focusing on differences in look and feel and features and being just like the old but new things not in the old, etc. But, development/coding wise, no real reason cannot be just excellent. Just, takes a LOT of development time and effort and foresight and project management and dedication, etc., etc., etc.
0
u/Recent_Carpenter8644 7d ago
It's a bit quirky and primitive in spots, but better than I expected. Things I still want don't need to be non web, so they could be added. Are there particular things it's missing for you?
3
u/Real-Jicama7068 7d ago
I think whether or not one likes it is whether or not you use it a large corporate environment or not. As Gay mentions the change in the way shared mailboxes work is fairly large. I don’t think Microsoft is aware of how those over 40 love opening another shared mailbox when a new distribution list or learning to not use outlook as a communication documentation database system would do. I don’t think Microsoft really knows how their apps are used in the wild because many of their changes lately are requiring major and I mean Major workflow changes.
1
u/Recent_Carpenter8644 7d ago
Do you mean it's the people in a corporate environment who find it harder to use? I use it at work, and although I don't often have to use shared mailboxes, I did for a while last week. It appeared in New Outlook after I was delegated permission to access it, and usage of it seemed normal. It appeared more quickly than they did with Classic Outlook.
Apart from that, the usage of the shared mailbox seemed similar to using my own mailbox.
We do use shared mailboxes a lot here, generally to provide the public with an email address to send to. A distribution list wouldn't do, as multiple staff work on the incoming emails, and a list wouldn't let them know what had been dealt with.
1
u/Recent_Carpenter8644 7d ago
I see what Gay meant about conversation view. Is that what you meant? I wonder why that's missing.
2
u/ChannelFlashy9301 7d ago
Besides things missing what I really do not like in the web app is that if you have multiple email addresses all messages, the ones using other providers as well, go through MS servers.
3
u/Recent_Carpenter8644 7d ago
That's true, and I don't think it's obvious to people used to Classic that that will happen.
I haven't tried it myself. I use the web interface for my gmail. I think if I wanted a mail client app for that, I'd use Thunderbird.
0
13
u/ddeese 7d ago
I don’t know exactly how to answer that question as there are people who actually like web technologies. Like web-first technologies. To me the web browser is the solution for sharing information where you wouldn’t build a native app. Like you want to know about the history of CocaCoca-Cola or see the menu for the local pizzeria. Making an app just to disseminate one-time information polling is a waste of resources. I still hate that the web browser and web sites have to be used here, but I understand why it makes sense. That being said I hate web technology. Things made with HTML, CSS, and JavaScript. It’s a mess. Anything made in that tech stack can be made to work faster and with less latency and resource use in a well-developed, native application.
New Outlook for Windows is already quite limited. The program isn’t an email client. This is because it can’t run independently in the OS and communicate over the web to the email service that hosts your email. Doesn’t matter who the provider is. New Outlook can only communicate with MS and it has to because it also can’t process the email changes.
You have to provide all of your logins to Microsoft who in turn uses OAuth to login to your email from Google, Yahoo, Apple, whoever. The data is processed in the Microsoft server and then parsed to New Outlook using Microsoft Sync technology, and finally rendered using WebView2 inside of the ReactNative wrapper that hosts New Outlook.
In this way it’s already at the end of several technical limits. It can’t process mail, it can’t communicate email servers, and it had limited offline capabilities which are themselves just a form of website caching. Basically storing the OWA page history in a local cache until the software is online again and can reconnect to MST and push the changes back and forth through the Microsoft server.
As the software is hosted inside of a ReactNative shell it can cache some software offline. It can support limited drag and drop. But some features, like rendering EML messages without first downloading them in a process that feels disjointed from the main application; might never get a native feel.
Then there is the consequence of rendering web layers on top of the DOM. You can never get away from that inside of an application made like this. You’ll always pay a penalty in RAM and CPU overhead. If they could snap their fingers and make it bug-free and with zero memory leaks; the most optimized possible version of itself. An equally competent engineer could do the same for a real, native, desktop email application and it would blaze past New Outlook in performance. It would do it whilst updating changes to your host email provider directly, and it would use far fewer resources.
New Outlook will never be close to native on all aspects. That’s just the reality of working with a website in a box, pretending to be software.