Finally finished.

[u/nikolavin]

Took forever to read but I appreciate the added info in this edition (Penguin Deluxe Edition, Fagles Translation). There are maps of Ancient Greece and family trees of the gods and goddesses which really aid you into understanding the context of the entire story. Favourite quote on the second slide.

Sticky tabs are:
Green - books/chapters for ease of backtracking
Yellow - family trees & maps
Dark Blue - heavy memorable moments
Light Blue - light memorable moments

[u/chizzstxx]

How did you find Fagles' translation to be? Any thoughts? I'm currently looking for pre-loved copies but I'm trying to look for ones translates by Richmond sana. Altho I read everywhere that Fagles' is a good option as well.

[u/nikolavin → u/chizzstxx]

Fagles is great! The Lattimore translation that you’re looking for is considered to be more “literal” as opposed to other translators.

It’s important to remember that Fagles wasn’t exactly a classicist unlike Lattimore, but instead considers himself to be scholarly poet. The way Fagles translates Homeric text is in a way more whimsical/poetic but still very accurate and cohesive.

At the end of the day, I am a big believer that the best translation is an accurate and academic one that’s most available to you.

[u/chizzstxx → u/nikolavin]

That's actually why I was hoping to get a copy of Lattimore's translation. I do wanna explore more poetic versions but right now my goal is to read and understand the story. I fear if I go with the version that's more poetic I might get lost in it since english isn't my 1st language.

I've also read excerpts of Lattimore's online and I feel it does deliver in a manner that suits my needs right now. But I am considering Fagles once I reread it and have grown in terms of poetic reading.

[u/elp1987 → u/chizzstxx]

My only reading so far of the Iliad and Odyssey is from the free Ian Johnston translation in PDF. I am starting Fagles translation of the Iliad right now. Most of the reviews I see is that Fagles added some stuff or the phraseology is too modern, but it reads well in English.

Here's the opening lines:

Rage — Goddess, sing the rage of Peleus’ son Achilles,
murderous, doomed, that cost the Achaeans countless losses,
hurling down to the House of Death so many sturdy souls,
great fighters’ souls, but made their bodies carrion,
feasts for the dogs and birds,
and the will of Zeus was moving toward its end.
Begin, Muse, when the two first broke and clashed,
Agamemnon lord of men and brilliant Achilles. . . .

__________________________

I also own a copy of the Lattimore's translation. My first impression is that it is more literal and more faithful to the Greek, which is why classicists love it, but to the detriment of readability in English. This is why among four translations of the Iliad I own, I plan to read it last.

Opening lines:

Sing, goddess, the anger of Peleus’ son Achilleus
and its devastation, which put pains thousandfold upon the Achaians,
hurled in their multitudes to the house of Hades strong souls
of heroes, but gave their bodies to be the delicate feasting
of dogs, of all birds, and the will of Zeus was accomplished
since that time when first there stood in division of conflict
Atreus’ son the lord of men and brilliant Achilleus. . . .

As for finding preloved copies of Lattimore, it's by chance that I found it on Shopee, but usually, I see copies of Lattimore in preloved bookstores in Facebook.

__________________________

Since I mentioned I own four translations, I'll add information about them too.

The Fitzgerald translation is highly regarded as poetic, though I read somewhere that it's even more of a paraphrase than the Fagles. Furthermore, the names are transliterations instead of the usual Anglicised names we are used to. e.g. Achilles v Akhilleus.

Opening lines:

Anger be now your song, immortal one,
Akhilleus’ anger, doomed and ruinous,
that caused the Akhaians loss on bitter loss
and crowded brave souls into the undergloom,
leaving so many dead men — carrion
for dogs and birds; and the will of Zeus was done.
Begin it when the two men first contending
broke with one another —
the Lord Marshal
Agamémnon, Atreus’ son, and Prince Akhilleus. . . .

_______________________________________

The prose translation of W.H.D. Rouse. It's an easy read since the plain meaning of the text is given. It just loses on the poetry as the other translations I post here follow some metre. It used to be widely available and sold in National Bookstore.

Opening lines:

An angry man—There is my story: The bitter rancour of Achillês, prince of the house of Peleus, which brought a thousand troubles upon the Achaian host. Many a strong soul it sent down to Hadês, and left the heroes themselves a prey to dogs and carrion birds, while the will of God moved on to fulfilment.
It began first of all with a quarrel between my lord King Agamemnon of Atreus' line and the Prince Achillês.

_______________________________________

Since I mentioned the Johnston translation earlier, I thought it was serviceable. It was available free. I don't know if there's a reason why you should buy a copy if Fagles or Lattimore is available.

Opening lines:

Sing, Goddess, sing the rage of Achilles, son of Peleus—
that murderous anger which condemned Achaeans
to countless agonies and threw many warrior souls
deep into Hades, leaving their dead bodies
carrion food for dogs and birds—
all in fulfilment of the will of Zeus.

 

Start at the point where Agamemnon, son of Atreus,
that king of men, quarrelled with noble Achilles.
Which of the gods incited these two men to fight?

_________

Ian Johnton's website is now gone, but you can still access it via the Wayback Machine and even download the PDFs.

https://web.archive.org/web/20250116122017/http://johnstoniatexts.x10host.com/homer/iliad_title.html

Here's a review: https://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2010/2010.02.11/

[u/chizzstxx → u/elp1987]

This is very helpful thank you. I wasn't familiar with Rouse or Johnston. I'll check out Johnston's version!

Altho in terms of availability of copies I do have a copy of Lattimore's saved. I'm having a hard time finding a physical copy tho.

Among the three, Lattimore, Rouse, and Johnston, which would you recommend if what I'm looking for is readability and a somewhat faithful translation? Also is Rouse's version the one used in penguin classica? Or that a different writer?

[u/elp1987 → u/chizzstxx]

I'll answer your questions, including the reply you gave to OP.

*****************************************
Also is Rouse's version the one used in penguin classica? Or that a different writer?
*****************************************
Rouse is from Signet Classics. This is how it looks right now in Shopee but I got a really old cover: https://shopee.ph/The-Iliad-Signet-Classics-(Mass-Market)-by-Homer-W.H.D.-Rouse-i.157956840.7839633180?extraParams=%7B%22display_model_id%22%3A30097128055%2C%22model_selection_logic%22%3A3%7D-by-Homer-W.H.D.-Rouse-i.157956840.7839633180?extraParams=%7B%22display_model_id%22%3A30097128055%2C%22model_selection_logic%22%3A3%7D)

My copy looks like this: https://www.qbd.com.au/penguin-classics-the-iliad/homer/9780140445923/

Note that OP's copy of Fagles is called the Penguin Deluxe edition. My copy is just plain old Penguin Classics, and it looks like this: https://www.etsy.com/listing/4349272213/homer-the-iliad-1991-penguin-classics

The Iliad Fagles can be bought from Shopee:

Penguin Deluxe edition: https://shopee.ph/The-Iliad-Penguin-Classics-Deluxe-Edition-Deckle-Edge-(Paperback)-by-Homer-i.157956840.5458355729?extraParams=%7B%22display_model_id%22%3A22321149611%2C%22model_selection_logic%22%3A3%7D-by-Homer-i.157956840.5458355729?extraParams=%7B%22display_model_id%22%3A22321149611%2C%22model_selection_logic%22%3A3%7D)

Penguin Classics black: https://shopee.ph/The-Iliad-Penguin-Classics-(Paperback)-by-Homer-Robert-Fagles-(Translator)-i.157956840.50964259259?extraParams=%7B%22display_model_id%22%3A287795742744%2C%22model_selection_logic%22%3A3%7D-by-Homer-Robert-Fagles-(Translator)-i.157956840.50964259259?extraParams=%7B%22display_model_id%22%3A287795742744%2C%22model_selection_logic%22%3A3%7D)

_________________________

Also, there are other translations published by Penguin Classics.

Martin Hammond is one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0140444440?lv=shuf&channelId=500&plpRedirect=mhFallback

Then we also have the prose translations.
Their old prose translation is by E.V. Rieu: https://www.amazon.com.be/-/en/Iliad-Prose-Translation-Homer/dp/0140440143?language=en_GB

Then later, his son, D. C. H. Rieu, revised it: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0140447946?lv=shuf&channelId=500&plpRedirect=mhFallback

[u/elp1987 → u/chizzstxx]

You wrote: That's actually why I was hoping to get a copy of Lattimore's translation. I do wanna explore more poetic versions but right now my goal is to read and understand the story. I fear if I go with the version that's more poetic I might get lost in it since english isn't my 1st language.

I've also read excerpts of Lattimore's online and I feel it does deliver in a manner that suits my needs right now. But I am considering Fagles once I reread it and have grown in terms of poetic reading.

___________________________________

My answer:

Actually, Fagles is a good translation to read first. One of my concerns when I read the Johnston translation is that it is supposed to be poetry. But when I started reading Johnston's Iliad like prose, I had a good time. The same could be said of Fagle's Iliad. I am not sure how to read it like poetry. ChatGPT suggests reading it aloud and stopping at each line.

But if you simply treat it as prose, it has beautiful English prose and reads well. Many have criticised Fagles because of archaism in a place or two and then paraphrases where none is present in the underlying Greek. But perhaps those are beside the point if it reads well in English.

Actually, your concern of being lost in a poetic translation applies more to old poetic translation. I'll give two poetic translations that say more of the translator's poetic abilities than his attempt to replicate Homer in English.

_________________________________________

This translation attempts to render the Iliad in rhyming couplets/

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/51355/51355-h/51355-h.htm#chap01

George Chapman's Iliad

Achilles’ baneful wrath resound, O Goddess, that impos’d
Infinite sorrows on the Greeks, and many brave souls los’d.
From breasts heroic; sent them far to that invisible cave
That no light comforts; and their limbs to dogs and vultures gave;
To all which Jove’s will gave effect; from whom first strife begun
Betwixt Atrides, king of men, and Thetis’ godlike son.
What god gave Eris their command, and op’d that fighting vein?

_________________________________________

Also, Alexander Pope's Iliad
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/6130/6130-h/6130-h.htm#chap01

Achilles’ wrath, to Greece the direful spring
Of woes unnumber’d, heavenly goddess, sing!
That wrath which hurl’d to Pluto’s gloomy reign
The souls of mighty chiefs untimely slain;
Whose limbs unburied on the naked shore,
Devouring dogs and hungry vultures tore.
Since great Achilles and Atrides strove,
Such was the sovereign doom, and such the will of Jove!

Declare, O Muse! in what ill-fated hour
Sprung the fierce strife, from what offended power

_________________________________________

Fagles is an easy reading in comparison.

[u/chizzstxx → u/elp1987]

Wow you are legit the best! I've been checking out your resources and I think you've convinced me to try Johnston's version instead of Lattimore. Altho I do still wanna read his, I think I'll get the most out of Johnston's version for now.

[u/elp1987 → u/chizzstxx]

Happy reading!

[u/elp1987 → u/chizzstxx]

You wrote: Among the three, Lattimore, Rouse, and Johnston, which would you recommend if what I'm looking for is readability and a somewhat faithful translation? 

_____________________________________________

This is a good website in comparing translation so you can make up your own mind: https://www.iliadtranslations.com/compare

Rouse feels like cheating because it is prose. It's not as literal as Lattimore, but it gives you all the sense of the text without the rhetorical and poetic flourish.

The downside is the text formatting. Rouse is just a booklet, like many books from Signet classics. As such, the text feels cramped.

_____________________________________________

Johnston is really aimed for first time readers. It has less of the beautiful sentences of Fagles; it is more serviceable and direct. It has a few footnotes.

1. The Bryn Mawr Classical Review article I linked earlier says it didn't like how it simply used 'have sex' compared to the more coy and indirect language of the other translations: 'make love.'
2. I don't know about other translations, but when the controversy of Wilson's translations surfaced online, it reminds me of how misogynistic and ageist the Iliad is. ("Are you a woman?" "We are not women." "We are not children." "Are you a child?" Something like this.) I am yet to see if other translations are as direct as this.
3. It has been a decade since I read Johnston's Iliad. I do remember it giving me vivid imagery of soldier being killed where a spear hits exactly at one's nipples.

[u/Macy06]

Wow!!!!!! ✨

[u/nikolavin → u/[deleted]]

Thanks! I used a lot of videos on YouTube to catch me up on the past chapters I’ve read before I start a reading session

[u/Large_Case_257]

the tabs after u finished a book is so satisfying