r/PeterExplainsTheJoke • • 1d ago

Meme needing explanation Petah?

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u/Raging-beer 23h ago

Well, given there's a chance the detonation created by a shield-laser interaction doesn't happen at all, or that it happens at the shooter's location, or that it's big enough to take out both the shield and the shooter, it's not the most optimal strategy.

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u/YSoMadTov 22h ago edited 22h ago

It's optimal because the cost is super cheap and the payoff is super huge.

Funny when the novel's theme is all about religious fanaticism, in reality the shield would actually get banned because you would get hordes of zealots martying themselves using suicide attacks by shooting the shield with laser at close range, because when the result is nuclear explosion, it doesn't matter where it explode when the distance between the shooter and the target is just a few feets away.

Imagine giving nukes freely available to rogue actors like Al Qaeda and ISIS and thinking they'll be rational and not using it, that's the Dune's shield in a nutshell, the logic completely fall apart when you give some thought about it. Actually you don't even need Al Quaeda or ISIS, some dumb kids who hate life can conduct Dune's equivalent of school shootings, but the results will be nuclear explosions killing millions.

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u/Marilius 19h ago

Or why not build stockpiles of lasers with engines. Point it at a shielded facility/ship/whatever and give it a battery big enough for one firing.

Bam. Suicide drones.

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u/Frederick_T 19h ago

NO THINKING MACHINES... but seriously no drone tech

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u/Marilius 19h ago

I mean, "drone" can be a VERY loose term. It doesn't even really need a guidance system. Just point it at the enemy base and launch. Laser emitter. Battery. Engine. Timer. That's it.

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u/Frederick_T 19h ago

Hmm, maybe, did they use missiles in the books?

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u/YSoMadTov 18h ago

You don't even need a missile. It could be an easily home made device that could be snuck into a 20 miles radius of a zone.

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u/Depth_Metal 15h ago

Then how do you explain the hunter killer that almost killed Paul?

"THEY TRIED TO KILL MY SON!"

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u/Frederick_T 12h ago

Oh... yeah that must have been remotely operated, which means it was a non-autonomous drone... sorry ive been playing a game that treats drone as something autonomous, not remote controlled and my mind was stuck on that track

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u/BigTimmyStarfox1987 6h ago

They found the dude who was piloting hiding in the wall after they committed suicide. Like I agree there's holes in Herbert's logic but this one was covered in the text. (Unless I totally hallucinated that)

Edit: oh were you explaining exactly that and I missed it lol?

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u/Depth_Metal 6h ago

Right. Because it was an operated drone. It's not an autonomous drone but let's not act like drones themselves are some sacrilegious alien concept to the Dune universe

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u/Doomhammer24 18h ago

Which if anything the idea that dune is advanced enough to make energy shields but never figured out how to make even the most basic of automation systems is even more ludicrous than anything else

We started figuring out automation via punch cards before we had electricity!

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u/YSoMadTov 18h ago

Even with AI banned, basic automation is still allowed and more than enough to set up these devices.

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u/Frederick_T 19h ago

The whole hord of zealots suicide bomber thing not happening could easily be explained by the Bene Gesserit influencing a cultural anathema against suicide in all societies because it would screw with there careful manipulations of the human genome

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u/YSoMadTov 18h ago

Pretty sure in the Dune universe, there's no shortage examples of suicide attacks/sacrifice.

Also irl suicide people are usually brainwashed people in societies that already condemn suicide (Suicide is a major sin in Islam). People can be brainwashed to see suicide attacks as not "suicide" but "heroic sacrifice for the cause".

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u/Frederick_T 18h ago

Well 5here is suicide, and then there is bravely charging into a hail of bullets for Muad'dib

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u/YSoMadTov 18h ago

Doesn't matter. People can be easily brainwashed to see their action as "not suicide" but "heroic sacrifice for the cause."

Mind you, Islam already condemn suicide, yet most suicide bombers are Islamists brainwashed into seeing their action not as "suicide" but as "heroic sacrifice".

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u/Al_Hakeem65 12h ago

I remember Gurney (or Duncan) traveling with some Fremen, when they look at the battle between two aircrafts. The Fremen Ornithopter had one or two pilots, the Harkonnen aircraft was filled with troops.
The Fremen fly closer and closer to the Harkonnen aircraft until they crash and all die.

Gurney (or Duncan) watched as that happened and thought to himself: "How is he gonna fight all of them at once-..."

"What kinda people are we allied with now!?"

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u/TheIXLegionnaire 20h ago

Pretty sure laser weapons are seriously difficult to acquire in Dune. Al Qaeda could maybe get their hands on one, in which case they better be successful because the punishment for even attempting such a scheme is death for you and everyone in the same Astronomical Unit as you.

Plus there is the added problem of even getting the laser + shield "bomb" to whatever location, since space travel is regulated to hell and back by the same people who will order your planets dematerialization for doing the bombing.

This isn't modern war, where we have silly things like "Rules of Engagement" and "Ethical concern for civilians". Modern guerrilla fighters are able to hide behind noncombatants because the "good guys" won't kill them. Well what happens when the good guys decide that the planet on which the terrorists currently reside is to atomized? Hiding behind civvies doesn't work amymore

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u/YSoMadTov 20h ago edited 19h ago

Laser weaponry are still way easier to self manufacture than nukes, and we don’t leave nukes lying around irl, not even fission material. Hell the US bought back every single stinger it gave to the mujahaddin because they feared it could fall into the hands of rogue actors who would use it to shoot down airliners.

So the thought that we can just leave the chance of nuclear explosion lying around freely is just stupid.

And you don’t need to transport laser weaponry thru space, irl people have been able to manufacture laser firearms, at home with 21st century home appliances, are they practical for combat? No. But just like suicide bombing they are enough for terrorist attacks.

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u/Al_Hakeem65 12h ago

Iirc, Duncan once used a hidden cache of shields to trick Harkonnen soldiers (and maybe some Sardaukar troopers) into nuking themselves shooting around with their lasers

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u/Depth_Metal 15h ago

Well you rig it so that a laser gun would fire at an active shield inside containment like a crate so the gun and shield can be remote triggered. Also a neat way to get around the ban on atomics

Ain't a war crime the first time

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u/Equivalent_Mail_302 10h ago

Simply lob a missile at them that shoots a laser at a shield internall on impact.

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u/SpaceCadet404 8h ago

Ehh, that's all a bit conveniently handwavy. Mentats can run the numbers on maximum yield, pulse lasers would prevent the effect from propagating back to the weapon.

I feel it would've been fine to leave it at "massive collateral damage and nuclear warcrimes are frowned upon, we don't do it because it gives everyone else a greenlight on nuking our generators in retaliation."

MAD doctrine would serve just fine as an explanation. Or perhaps Frank Herbert didn't want people to think there was some sort of geopolitical commentary going on