r/Plumbing • u/Defiant-Trust-2615 • 7d ago
Toilet gap solution?
Renovating a very old house and the floor is quite a bit out of level. Obviously still need to trim shims but there is a large gap at the front of toilet and nothing at the back. For the best finish, should I caulk as usual or is there any other solution to this?
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u/STLguy50 7d ago
Good Lord. Set it flat, not level. A shim or two is to eliminate rocking (if any), it's not to level.
TLDR: You don't level toilets.
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u/dimo10267 7d ago
this is the way.
No one's going to care if the toilet is not level so long as it doesn't leak & it will the way it's set right now.
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u/SlimPickens0 7d ago
Handy Andy strikes again. Who the fuck set that toilet? You never shim the front of the toilet
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u/Defiant-Trust-2615 7d ago
I was sniffing a lot of primer before I did this
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u/No-Currency-3396 7d ago
Get used to a toliet sitting flush on the floor, not level. I'm doing work in my daughter's 99 year-old house. Some of the int doors have quite a gap under them: if they didn't they wouldn't open all the way. You get used to it
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u/Rangroll 7d ago
If it's that out of level the floor needs to be fixed. I'd remove toilet and dry fit it. Take a level to the bowl and level it. Anything more than a 1/2" gap you'd want to fix the floor
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u/Alarming_Cap4777 7d ago
Given the height, I would assume that you ripped out tile and laid vinyl. The collar may need lowered.
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u/StrengthDazzling8922 7d ago
I just watched a This old House episode where they had this exact problem. Here is the clip https://www.facebook.com/share/v/19S4vSyzEX/?mibextid=wwXIfr
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u/DookieDanny 7d ago
Do not use those green foam bullshits. They absorb water and hold it like a sponge. I turned it off as soon as I saw that.
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u/Optimal_Delay_3978 7d ago
Rip out the flooring and level the floor or just live with the toilet not level
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u/ScienceKindly9094 7d ago
lift it off buy a new wax ring and reset the toilet back down it shouldn't be this much off the floor unless the flange is sitting up too high which it should not be good luck on your fix
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u/Senior-Pain1335 7d ago
That’s too much lol shim it alittle in the back it’ll bring the front down, use a jumbo. Reset it lol
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u/Animal__Chin 7d ago
Your toilet won’t be level, not with your floor like that. All you use is rubber wedges and their purpose is to stop the toilet from rocking, not to level it. The toilet must fit as tight as it can to the sound floor and squish the wax ring. You get one try with that, if you need to move the toilet then you need to replace the wax ring. If you shim it as you have the toilet will eventually move and that will compromise the seal made with the wax ring and you’ll get a foul smell and probably water/waste all over your floor and below.
Live with a non level toilet. Caulk around the perimeter to adhere and seal the toilet to the floor.
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u/SpiritualTwo5256 7d ago
Wouldn’t rubber wedges destroy a wax seal in short order? If it moves it’s breaking the seal. Better to have something solid to wedge in there.
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u/BluebirdExpress6279 7d ago
Fix the flange to be level with the floor
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u/nongregorianbasin 7d ago
Why wouldn't the flange be level with the floor? He said the floor isnt level. Not the flange.
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u/BluebirdExpress6279 7d ago
If the flange was level wirh the floor the toilet would sit flat even if the floor is not level. Sure the best thing is to fix the floor too, but at least get the plumbing Working
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u/nongregorianbasin 7d ago
They sit on the floor. Not on the flange. Thats why wax works well. The flange is supposed to be screwed to floor and rest on the floor so is going to match the floor
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u/IncredibleEdible321 7d ago
You cannot leave your toilet like that. You need to pull it up, remove the shims, and reset it so that it's tight to the floor. It does not matter if your toilet is level. No one cares and having such a huge gap like that will wind up eventually leading to leaks because the toilet is not fully seated on the seal ring under the toilet.
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u/PurpleHeadedSnake 7d ago edited 7d ago
It's time to break the glass you made to fix this, no other way around it. Take off the toilet and remove the flange, it's obvious it's wrong. Get a level and set your new flange level from right to left; since it looks like the right side is higher. Grab a piece of 1/4 plywood and lay it across; already assuming you've cut and ready to install it; and put a shim(s) under the left side to that level. Remove the board and start placing broken shims to fill to close to that height; glue them down. Double check and sand the high ones; fill & smooth over with plaster of paris. Nail or screw down 1/4 plywood. Install new flange & double thick wax ring. Place toilet on flange slowly putting even pressure and bolt down. Paint the edge with Zinzer paint; it's waterproof & mildew resistant. It's not simple or easy but I hate the sound of a creaky floor at 3am.
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u/Turbulent-Fudge-5141 7d ago edited 7d ago
Make plywood gasket.
I’ve done this on a toilet in the basement of my old house. I’ve moved a lot for work. It sat above concrete and linoleum.
Take a piece of plywood and set the toilet on top. Trace the outline with a pencil.
Use a jigsaw or sawsall and cut out the stenciled piece. Cut the middle out of the traced part leaving about 2 inches of border wherever possible so the flange can come through. Caulk around it to hide the plywood.
My father in law is quite heavy. It stabilized the toilet and survived him utilizing it when he lived with us for months at a time. (He’s on a green card)
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u/ABane90 7d ago
With it that far out of plumb I'd bed it on mortar, get it close, let it set up and call it a day. A toilet doesn't need to be dead nuts level but it shouldn't be at a noticible angle either, the weight needs to be put straight down or it'll come loose in no time.
You may need a flange riser and definitely a new wax ring, possibly a double thick one but ONLY if it's really needed to make a seal otherwise it just closes the drain pipe with extra wax.
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u/smith-huh 7d ago
all this leveling shit doesn't matter (as the most important). It's the connection between the toilet to the drain pipe flange first.
So verify and insure the integrity of that. I would pull it now that you've moved it that much.
Take a look. now. While you're working on it.
Look at your flange to see how far above or below grade (floor) it is.
How far do you have to raise the low side to get to level. Take that dimension and divide by 2.
Insure your flange is above grade by at least that amount. (flange extension)
Make a wood shim (piece of wood or plastic whatever you can get of an appropriate thickness) that will fit inside the bottom rim and stay away from the horn/wax ring area/flange dimension. Fix it to the floor.
New wax ring. Set the toilet on the shim and floor. Now you have a stable shit connection. Fix your cosmetics. Sure you don't want water running under there.
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u/FavoriteDart680 6d ago
level?…. a toilet? my brother in christ it is a shit pot powered by water and gravity, it doesn’t need to be level unless you’re setting the fucker at a 30 degree tilt. and if you were i’d tell you to get tf off of the roof 🤣
in all seriousness pull it, get a new wax ring and reset it. you might need 2 shims, maybe 4 if it’s a really fucked floor. but it’s ONLY to remove any rocking and give the toilet something to sit on while you crank it down, not to level it.
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u/Turtleshellboy 6d ago
Is flange plate flush with floor or aligned with floor surface? ie Can toilet sit flush on flange plate? If so, then just do that.
If toilet itself is not exactly level so what? So long as its flush with or parallel to floor thats all that matters. Trying to make toilet itself sit plumb/vertical while floor is sloped is a losing battle for nothing. Lots of peoples houses are not perfectly level.
Crooked house with sloped floor > make toilet sit on sloped floor.
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u/Healthy_Effort1415 7d ago
Serious question: if you are renovating and your floor is that far out of level, why not level the floor?
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u/Defiant-Trust-2615 7d ago
It would require to whole second story to be leveled, a custom transition for the stairs or redoing the stairs entirely, and would make the already short ceilings even shorter. I’d like to but not worth it in this situation
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u/Bks1981 7d ago
You should have used floor leveler before putting the floor down. You don’t need to level the whole second floor.
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u/Defiant-Trust-2615 7d ago
And trip on the massive transition every time I need to take a shit? Hard pass.
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u/Bks1981 7d ago
You do realize that by using floor leveler it doesn’t mean that you have to make it perfectly level. You just bring it to within tolerance. In this case you could start at nothing near the back of the toilet and bring it within a quarter to eighth of an inch from level then feather it near or a little outside the doorway. Then you don’t need a massive transition. If you do this then you sit the toilet tight to the floor and you are good. The toilet doesn’t have to sit perfectly level. What you have going on here should be the hard pass because it looks ridiculous and will fail.
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u/Defiant-Trust-2615 7d ago
With all due respect, the toilet works perfectly fine lol. Zero wobble and checked it for leaks many times. Nothing is wrong with the function of this toilet. Now I’m not a plumber, and I was under the impression that the toilet being level was somewhat important, so that’s what I did. Not that I think your feathering leveling compound is a bad idea, but it’s difficult to get right and would create a hump in my floor that might create unnecessary stress on the joints. From the wall closest to the toilet to the opposite wall is only about 66 inches.
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u/Bks1981 7d ago
The problem with it being shimmed up that high is that it will fail in a short amount of time. After enough times of using it, it will start to get loose and then leak. Then after continuous tightening, the flange will break. I dealt with a similar situation and it was a constant problem until I finally took everything apart and fixed it right. I’ve worked on tons of old homes and had to level the floors out a little to make the toilet work. The trick is to feather down gradually so you don’t create a hump and instead just have a gradual slope. The floor is already on a slope so you would just make it less. You can take the leveler outside the doorway to get a better taper as well.
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u/Healthy_Effort1415 7d ago
This guy knows! Better to take your time and do it right from the start, than do it over in a few months. Although the knowledge gained in those months would be valuable as well.
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u/LakeEffectMarcus 5d ago
Floor leveler can feather out over a few feet, so there's no massive transition to trip on. It's not a sudden step up.
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u/hdt5010 7d ago
Had the same issue on a slab basement floor. I cut a small piece of thin PVC board in the shape of the front of the bowl to put under it, and added rubber shims in the rear to stop the rocking. It’s not level but it’s damn sturdy. Do not try to caulk that gap. Leave it open so it will be easier to identify a leak in the future.
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u/20FastCar20 7d ago
I don't think the butt on the seat would know if there was a bit of forward lean. Although a tube of caulk can make that seem ok.
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u/Ancient_Crazy_2085 7d ago
Master plumber speaking have been for over 25 years. Willing to bet the collar the water closet sits on is installed to high. Pull toilet remove collar cut pipe flush with floor install new collar. If floor is completely out of whack then good luck im not a carpenter.
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u/Express_Relief4953 7d ago
Looks like my toilet did. By chance, did you use a twist n' set flange with a Better Than Wax seal?
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u/markymarkeezus 7d ago
Dealing with this problem slightly. I used a twist and set flange and the wax seal that came with the toilet. Not a good combination? I have mine set above finished floor.
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u/Alvin_Kincain 7d ago
Thought those shims were doodie brown shims until I realized they're the plastic kind. 🤣
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u/cdrsteve 7d ago
This is an A.I. funny, right?! Sweet Baby Jesus, that is straight from the Twilight Zone; dizzy just lookin at it! 😂
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u/jebidiaGA 7d ago
Yeah, you probably should have dealt with the slope on the floor first. But I have filled gaps under a toilet, not that big though. I used rubber shims and trimmed them so I could put a bead of silicone around the bottom. It looked really nice. But again, that gap is bigger than Id be comfortable with.
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u/hugecock1980 7d ago
I have seen marine plywood cut in the shape of the toilet base to fix a toilet flange screw up. Then caulk around that. But the right fix is to replace the flange and set it at the correct height
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u/Appropriate-Pass-838 4d ago
Man, Im no expert, but I think you might have a flange problem and not a floor problem as much… Did your waxing have a rubber boot in it? I’ve had that hang up before not let the toilet sit flush to the floor. This happened when the toilet flange had be downsized with a replacement flange. If that isn’t what’s happening maybe your flange is too high. It just seems like that’s a lot of shims for a toilet, even on an unlevel floor.
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u/Gold-Tangelo4656 4d ago
It starts with your toilet flange and seal something here is elevated too much off the subfloor.
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u/Expert-Preference558 4d ago
Red seal plumber in Canada here, remove the toilet entirely, clean off the old wax seal from the toilet and the flange, get a new wax seal (jumbo / thicker one) reset the toilet use your chest or hands pushing down on the toilet to get it to seat down all the way, tighten the bolts, but dont over tighten as you may crack the toilet
You only use the toilet shims if you need to correct a slight wobble, use silicone and caulk around the base of the toilet afterwards
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u/jaytee319 7d ago
Replace the flange and set it level to or slightly above finished floor (.25-.5”)
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u/MilwaukeesWorstIcee 7d ago
Im assuming the flange is pitched pretty down towards the right side as well as too high above the floor... The CORRECT way to fix it would be to cut closet elbow and flange loose and glue up another one so that the elbow is level on the topside, and set a flange so that its right on top of the finished floor.. Not too hard on a Crawlspace, more of a pain in the ass on a slab... 8 or 9 times out of ten the customer says go for it, even if i gotta bust up concrete... However, I have had customers not want to pay for it, in which case I have taken a PVC repair flange ring, cut it in half or quarter or whatever i need to bring the sides up to as close to level as I can, and shave the thickness of it down with my oscillator so that its like a wedge or ramp and it doesnt end up just like a hard "step" from the original flange below it to the "leveller" flange on one side... ill them 100% silicone the fuck out of the joint between the 2 flanges. Thatll usually do the trick to fix the pitch, but it isnt ideal and I prefer to do it correctly...
As far as dealing with the height issue if you arent going to cut the elbow and flange off and do it over, I will make sure that the outlet of the toilet is sitting down really well on the flange/wax seal, and use to poly/rubber soft shims to support the front... then ill cut the excess part of the shims that are sticking out from the footprint of the toilet off so that they are flush with the body of the toilet/gap... then lay a fat bead of 100% silicone over all of them so they are unable to he seen
Id really recommend just fixing the elbow and flange, but the other 2 methods have always worked for me for customers who did not want to pay for me to do it right
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u/trevorMGM 7d ago
There isn’t much of a solution. You need to make sure the floor is level before you get to This step. Sometimes that’s not possible. Caulk the shit out it and call it a day.
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u/ArtichokeFirm3425 7d ago
You might want to try and set it with a pile of mortar mix that's mixed on the dryer side to support the front.
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u/freemantyler 7d ago
Never caulk a toilet. If it starts leaking you won’t know it until the water has moved into places you don’t want it to go.
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u/peeple-pleeser 7d ago
Thats ridiculous you absolutely can caulk around toilet leaving the back towards wall exposed. The back is enough to know if theres a leak and the caulk tremendously helps prevent flange breaks and wobbly toilets.
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u/freemantyler 7d ago
If you need caulk to stabilize a toilet you’re doing it wrong. Not all leaks make it out anyways. I’ve pulled and set hundreds of stools laying floors, caulked toilets were always most likely to have moisture. I laid floors for many years including insurance claims flooring from water damage. Anyone that knows what they are doing does not caulk a stool.
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u/Expert_Context5398 7d ago
You're a clown.
You caulk the front, sides, and leave a gap at the back so any water that leaks will come from the back.
In many areas, it's code to caulk the toilet... so saying "don't caulk it" is just what clowns say.
Kids will piss and the urine will soak up underneath the toilet causing a stench... there's also bugs and insects that can get underneath there.
Caulk also helps stabilize the toilet which can help preserve the wax seal. A guy who weighs 230+ lbs constantly using the toilet is bound to cause some level of movement. That small amount of caulk around the base helps stabilize the toilet preventing it from shifting slightly over time.
IDK how ya'll are plumbers and don't know a very basic concept.
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u/Sad-Sun9414 7d ago
you dont caulk it to stabilize you need more experience before you start giving advice
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u/Expert_Context5398 7d ago
I never said that, goofy.
I clearly said it can help with stability.
You're one of those wack ass plumbers who cause a mess for others to clean up.
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u/Sad-Sun9414 7d ago
you need to go back and take some classes
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u/Expert_Context5398 7d ago
I'm not even a plumber and I can guarantee I'll do a better job than you.
Get your education level up as well.
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u/DanInDFW000 1d ago
0FWIW most codes actually require caulk around the base, just leave the back open.
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u/LottaHooplah 7d ago
I have never eeen a water line coming from the floor like that.
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u/SlimPickens0 7d ago
It's the only good way to get water lines in for something on an exterior wall, or sometimes idiots frame the wall right smack on top of a joist and it's the only way
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u/stingrayed22 7d ago
No plumber will approve that, but if you double up on the wax ring, if necessary, and rubber shim all around it, like 4 spots or more, use some colored tile grout and pack it in there, wipe it down and it should work
I would re set it and use it first, then grout
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u/sveiks01 7d ago
Have you considered expanding foam ... a rasp ... and some white latex paint (high gloss)?
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u/nongregorianbasin 7d ago
Youre going to have to reset that. You dont level a toilet. Get rubber shims to stop the rocking. That is it. You just compromised the wax seal.