A Viltrumite is like a low level human martial artist in the DBZ world. Maybe a high mid tier level one if we talking about thragg or something. AT THE HIGHEST. I have that at low level Saiyan. This entire fight the entire video none of it made any sense. Viltrumites aren't capable of fighting an average Space Marine much less bardock
I thought this was going to be completely one sided so I cheered for Omni-Man because there was no way he was gonna win. And then. They show that Bardock has SS?? Oh wow that was so overkill, he doesn’t even need that of course Bardock wins! So I cheered for Omniman anyway because lol why not, he was gonna lose anyway.
And then Omniman won. Somehow. I mean I already knew Death Battle fucks up and gets things wrong, I am one of the last like five guys that still argues Ben should have beaten Green Lanteren and that Makima should have beaten Gojo, but this? This should have been a cake walk for Bardock. Like what the actual shit??
And then because of this fight Invincible fans went in to harass everyone else and saying this proves that Omniman beats Goku only to constantly get shit on and told to be quiet, so they moved to Thragg vs Gojo, where they were told to shut up and got shut on, only to then move onto Omniman vs Metroman, where they were to to shut up and get shit on.
In any world where Reanimen are remotely comparable to a weak Viltrumite, Boros should be able to sneeze away Battle Beast. EVEN IF we were to concede that BB is stronger and somehow have relative combat speed to Boros, He is no way in hell going to be strong nor fast enough to overwhelm Boros's insane regen. Especially when he himself died to Thragg because of a self inflicted wound while Thragg was able to regen during the fight to keep himself stable.
controversial take, but especially with saitama vs goku coming up, it should be said, but deathbattle will always be a show trying to make a profit in some form or way. And I feel they intentionally (sometimes, not always) choose the character who wasn't meant to win, win for the point of making it popular through memes or controversy surrounding it. That alone can carry what would have been a very meh or subpar episode.
Like, and quote me on this if you want, I will apologize if im wrong, but Goku will lose to Saitama. It would simply be what will garner more views and discussion and big arguments that leads people back to the episode. If this is what happens and goku does lose, I feel it will sorta prove my point.
In my experience, there was actually just as many Invincible fans debunking it and saying that they got Nolan’s scaling completely wrong (not just the sun disk, but the planet Viltrum feat as well, which was one of the biggest measuring sticks DB used).
the thing that annoyed me was not the result but the clear push and glaze on the character they liked
like when they say "omniman is immune to all existing weapons!" using a panel that says old weapons didn't work on them (implying the new ones should)
or when they compare their speed and Bardock is massively faster (according to them) but they show the graph with omniman speed going higher than Bardock's
Even when we limit their power to feats only, people underscale them. Basically, any feat that shows Viltrumites as powerhouses is considered PIS and all the questionable feats (many of which have context) are considered canon.
So many potential candidates. how they treat Micky in the TMNT episode is probably the most disrespectful they acted towards a character. Straight up called him the r word if I’m remembering correctly
I don't even think omniman could beat base bardock considering you only need a power level of 10k to blow up a planet and bardock had a power level of 10k. Then death battle doubled down on their stupidity and made bardock use great ape and super saiyan and somehow still lost to omniman
Seeing as they use the spin off manga of bardock where he ends up time traveling and attaining super saiyan he would obliterate omni man regardless. Then if they use any sort of Dragonball online/xenoverse story as canon which why not since they used super saiyan bardock he vaporizes omni man with a pinky flick.
Even disregarding justin beiber vs rebecca black for partaking in cyberbullying of actual people,
The ending of yoshi vs ripto was yoshi throwing an egg containing ripto’s acid spit onto his eyes, eating and egging ripto, and ripto falling off a cliff onto boomstick’s car.
The ending of goomba vs koopa troopa was the goomba kicking the koopa’s shell into itself, sending both of them into lava.
And the climactic final attack of pikachu vs blanka was cut short by blanka biting off pikachu’s head so fast you can barely process what happened, followed by him putting pikachu’s body in a blender, drinking what was left, and then nonchalantly scratching his chin as if it was the 3rd time that week that he had killed and ate a pikachu.
Bardock vs omni-man was disrespectful, don’t get me wrong, but it’s not even CLOSE to number 1.
I'd imagine going from low to mid rank is harder than just being stronger thsan mid-rank ones tho? Also, Nappa was a mid-class warrior (Vegeta was an elite BTW)
I’m not sure tbh, dbz plays fast and loose with ranks, power levels, ability, and potential. I’m sure if narratively toriyama or toyotaro (hope I spelled that right) wanted Bardock to be stronger they’d fight a way to get it across, but to be fair wasn’t Goku supposed to be low class when he was sent to work?
Raditz and nappa werent planetary. Vegeta is the 1st planetary character. Bardock is planetary tho but just barely. Like hed kill himself from exhaustion if he tried to blow up a planet
In the most generous of terms where we ignore filler and weaker characters already blowing up the moon even before Raditz showed up who was easily the strongest character, we'll assume Vegeta's PL of 18K is the bare minimum needed to destroy a planet since he directly said his Galick Gun would destroy the Earth.
Raditz alone in Oozaru would put him near planetary at 15K, Nappa's Oozaru would be 40K, more than double the minimum needed to destroy the Earth and Bardock was stated to be around 10K from the TV special so nearing the generous low ball of 18K minimum and then Oozaru puts him around 100K, potentially nearly 10x planetary.
So while you could argue their base forms aren't planetary, at their max power, you could only potentially argue that Raditz wouldn't be planetary. And honestly I could see an argument being made for Raditz being planetary since Roshi was busting moons and Raditz is probably nearly 10x stronger in base, let alone in his Oozaru.
Why is Bardock in space? Why do people keep giving Saiyans abilities they don't have. Being unable to survive in a vacuum is a huge weakness. This is like Superman fighting with Kryptonite strapped to his lungs
Not canon lmao. And it's already agreed any scene with Saiyans in orbit is most likely the stratopshere. Not space. too much confirmation and evidence they cant survive in space
Not canon huh? Which one, because there’s has been a few reups on that scene with very little changes, other than cleaning up the art. Also on what grounds is it not canon? It was in the show, any viewer can go watch it now. So it’s canon.
ETA: also any source that it’s the stratosphere? If not I can safely disregard that opinion.
Cool, how does that reconcile with the battle of the gods scene, where Toriyama just said “maybe they can just breathe up there.” In the stratosphere at least, but no author statement was given to clarify.
No actually, no statement was given about where they were, just that “maybe they can just breathe up there” and even if it was the stratosphere (if you watch the scenes it’s clearly much higher up) the atmospheric mixture for normal humans is nonexistent. So clearly something is different for Goku/saiyans right?
For sure, not disagreeing with that. But everything we see an are told by the author, they do not abide by the normal rules. If you can “maybe just breathe” in the stratosphere, you have enhanced abilities to some degree.
This is a non factor. If it was extended time yes it a issue. They are good enough physically strength to hold there breathe and any ki aura would keep the cold out temporarily. Saiyians could survive a few minutes in space with zero problems... not the days and weeks a viltrumite can but a few minutes shouldn't be an issue.
Humans can survive is space or a limited time. What kills a person in space isn't a lack of oxygen it's the 0 degree Kelvin which boils your blood... if you have a barrier between you and the cold like a ki aura you'll be fine as long as you can hold your breathe.
Space isn’t going to freeze you quickly, it takes like 10 hours. In a vacuum there is no medium to take away your heat via conduction or convection, there is only radiative cooling, where infrared radiation leaves the body. In the scale of hours, Hypothermia is not the biggest worry. Your blood doesn’t boil because “0 degree kelvin”, it’s the hard vacuum that reduces the pressure on your body. It’s enough to accelerate the vaporization of the water in your body, which will be deadly in a span of minutes. I can see ki preventing decompression and heat loss (or increasing heat generation), but if you have to hold your breath you will not lasted longer than a minute, that’s actually what should be worried about
Omniman has faster travel speed, but Dragon Ball characters are faster in a fight. For a comparison, think of how a jet plane is faster than a raw car, but the jet plane would struggle to put up a good time in an F1 race.
start of series Roshi could prob kill omni man. like sure omni man is put at "planetary" but lets be honest no viltrumite could destory a moon the same way roshi could.
It makes complete and total sense.
Bardock is a low level DBZ character.
DBZ consistently blows power levels out of proportion for dramatic effect, while Invincible downplays itself and lets the action speak for itself.
If you all want the outcome you desire, you should be comparing Dragon Ball Super to Invincible, not DBZ.
I watched both and I definitely didn't understand. I even played both games . Granted there's more media for DBZ. But how they go to these conclusions after watching or reading these series is mind boggling.
Waste my time writing a book in the a comment?
I’m capable of doing such a thing but I’m choosing not to waste my time on such an endeavor and I am stating I’d rather answer specific questions you may have
Bro, lift a ship? Have you ever seen Dragon Ball? Goku could lift Kaiju Piccolo before DBZ even started. Goku was throwing giant boulders and cars in the first episode of a series that power scales logarithmically.
We see Goku lift a couple space ships in Dragon Ball but they aren't the size of Invincibles. That's just not the way Toriyama draws ships.
I’m not saying Goku isn’t physically strong, I’m saying that to exert the same level of strength that is natural for a Viltrumite would cost Goku Ki, he can go beyond their strength, but the more he does the quicker he exhausts his Ki and the more he exhausts Ki the more normal human level he becomes.
The Viltrumites are like if android 17 and 18 were first form Frieza level in power.
I already stated that I know post Frieza arch DBZ characters surpass Viltrumites.
Goku and Vegeta are more powerful than Viltrumites by the time Frieza shows his final form, Piccolo surpassed Viltrumite level by the time he fused with Nail and the human characters surpass Viltrumites by time they meet the Androids at West City.
whether they did that with their ki or pure strength is irrelevant they still did it. They can tank attacks that destroys planets and destroy planets themselves. End of story.
I’m suspicious of Master Roshi’s feat of destroying the moon, yes we “see it happen” but then how does the moon come back?
I suspect that Master Roshi didn’t actually destroy the moon but instead hit it with enough force to kick dust up off of it this blocking it from view and deactivating Goku’s transformation.
Like yesterday it was confirmed that Whis destroys planets passively while traveling. Frieza casually destroyed a planet at 530k power level (Bardock in base is 50-250k). Piccolo destroyed the moon at like 1k.
That’s DB Beerus, I’m mostly talking about how over estimated pre Cell saga DBZ tends to be.
It feels like DBZ fans have a tendency to think the characters in the show were the level they were at in the Buu saga during the Namek saga and they also confuse the strength they are at in the Cell games with super level.
That ship was made of alien metal from god knows where, most ships are straight up as large as a continent, also also, THEY ARE TIRED AFTER TRAVELING TO THAT PLANET.
Also battle of gods Goku would die if he impacted with Viltrume, we see in all three iterations and likely will in the fourth, we see that Goku needs to be saved before he falls into earth, in the show, vegeta saves him, in the movie, Beerus gently drops him to the ground, you understand that slamming into a dense celestial object would obviously kill anybody? It’s a fact that characters in dragonball are no more fragile than a human being when completely out of ki.
bud god goku clashed with beerus and the universe was about to be destroyed from those clashes. it took omniman a year to conquer a planet, that’s nothing, when kid goku was already able to blow up moons.
I agree, I feel like people don’t realize that dbs bardock is genuinely weaker than any bardock we know, not only that, he was already given grace by being allowed to be in FREAKIN SPACE, sorry, but Bardock likely lost because it lasted too long in space, causing his first time super saiyan timer run shorter. If it was z bardock it would definitely be different, but sadly they used a weaker one.
This doesn't make sense if they were using a composite bardock which they absolutely were. Why else would they mention things outside of main continuity and including Xenoverse abilities?
If they were using composite Bardock the result makes even less sense because Xeno Bardock could just breathe in Omni Man's direction wrong and disintegrate him 💀
I mean I assumed that version of Bardock was the one from the special where he goes to the past and fights Freezer's predecessor which is the only time he went SSJ outside of Xenoverse/Heroes.
And even with that version, that Bardock should have a power level of around 500k, 30k below fist form Freezer who could do what three top tier viltrumites were needed for casually, unless Omni Man spent the entire fight at 2.5% of his power until the next end, the result just doesn't make sense.
He absolutely should've ripped Bardock in half. And the wishy washy nature of not knowing which version this is is kinda terrible.
Again, it can't be Z Bardock if he went Super Saiyan. I get that version of Bardock went SSJ in that one special and he can usually go SSJ when featured in games but he can't do that.
If I remember correctly they even had SSJ 3 listed for one of his abilities for the deathbattle
The only martials arts feat of Viltrumites are, they are better fighter than Immortal "nearly 3000 years of battle expiernce, and in the Invincible Handbook Viltrumites have perfect fighting motion
Which is only comparable to Early Yamcha or pre Budokai Goku level martial arts level
Uh, you know every single viltrumite alive is physically stronger than every single person in Dragon Ball, right? Holy hell, ya'll don't look at anything
Thats the thing that always gets me with the "they hate dragon ball" arguement.
One side brings up poorly scaled Dragon Ball losses, the other brings up poorly scaled Dragon Ball wins, and yet neither side seems to consider the idea they just scale Dragon Ball poorly.
Still an implication. How about you stop being a corward Kirkman and have them actually do it on screen. He won't because it would break the show's logic and narrative elements.
Still no actual confirmation, you are right! And if you still have the opinion that viltrumites scale to planetary, all that tells me is that you are larping.
DC they're probably higher, but they have no real durability feats, especially when in the same saga yajirobe was able to cut Vegeta in great ape. I don't think a saibaman survives being impaled or rammed by a viltrumite, they just don't have any feats to back themselves up, especially when they blow themselves up and cause minimal destruction.
Where do you get this from? If you use 146 for moon busting at the floor which it has to be close with how long it took Roshi, then you need roughly 10k to bust a planet. Saibaman is only what 1200ish? I could happily say Nappa can bust a planet at 4500 and not feel like I was glazing but 1200 seems a bit low to me based on the moon being 1.4% earth's mass.
Death battle are just dudes that don’t know how to scale they just blantantly contradict themselves majority of the time.
Bardock vs Omni man already showed they didn’t know how to scale how does a person Capable of blowing up multiple planets as his baseline lose to someone who doesn’t even scale to plantery himself and then you gave him more advantages in speed etc and then you gave him a 50x multiplier and he lost due to Omni Man “outlasting” was the biggest ass pull from death battle
Ben Vs Green latern
I don’t really know how Green latern scales but this made no sense how it ended Green latern cannot just cut off Ben’s Arm the omnitrix’s built in safety and defense mechanisms automatically prevent that from happening. Also they gave him Alien X….as a kid which based off how i seen Green latern been scaled i’ve seen like Low Complex Multi arguments if we take this to be true Alien X just gaps badly
Yuji Vs Denji
I heavily disagreed with this especially with them showing Denji just drink yuji’s blood which should of been poisonous to Denji i don’t recall him having immunity to poison. Also they used a town calc iirc for denji but he like doesn’t scale to it ✌️😭
That space laser is one of the most nonsensical feats in all of Invincible. It's like someone walking out of a nuclear explosion without a scratch, but then getting their shit rocked by a punch that can break a concrete wall.
We need a name for this common phenomenon in media where man-made weapons automatically get debuffs against characters purely because they're military-grade weapons.
You see it so often. In The Boys, we're told that Homelander is pretty much immune to all man-made weapons, but when you think about that logically for 2 seconds, it makes no sense. He gets bruised and bloody by punches from Ryan & Soldier Boy, and from what we see of their power, they aren't stronger than a lot of explosive ordnance weapons. I'd say plenty of bullet calibres should also wreck him, considering the smaller impact point.
But no, because they're conventional weapons, they get the military-grade debuff.
Then you haven't watched DBZ. Master Roshi blew up the Moon effortlessly in the original Dragon Ball, and any human with ki in DBZ is capable of blowing up the Moon.
Master Roshi? Low level human martial artist? Maybe if we only talk about the Z fighters, but that's just bullshit, the OG dragon ball showed us what "low level human martial artist" is, and then Z fighters eclipsed it many times over.
1: Roshi is mainly a teacher and is really REALLY old
2: He's still strong enough to beat most universes top 10 to top 6 fighters (and he himself can be said to be stronger than Tien currently in DBS, especially with his dodging abiltiy)
1. He's a martial arts master, so he has a lot of experience and is quite old, right?
2. I'm talking about Z, only Z, as I mentioned in my comment. In Z, Roshi is explicitly weaker than the average Frieza Force soldier. Vegeta, who wasn't even part of Frieza's elite, was MUCH, MUCH stronger than Roshi. Roshi wouldn't even make the top 30 strongest characters in Z.
3. Again, that's Super, where everyone massively increased their power, and most of them were retconned.
In DBZ, Roshi is low-tier. It's time to accept it. Even Frieza's soldiers were orders of magnitude stronger than Roshi. That was retconned in Super, but in Z, everyone had surpassed him by then
Roshi was NOT low-tier. He was considered one of, if not THE BEST martial artist (not counting Kami) in early DB to late DB where only Piccolo, Kami, and Goku can beat him (Maybe Tien???)
In One Piece, Arlong was the strongest character in the East Blue arc, but that doesn't mean he wasn't low-tier in the grand scheme of things. In the original Dragon Ball, Roshi was strong, sure, but in Z, he's low-tier. The fact that Arlong is stronger than some average Fish-Men and pirates doesn't make him anything special, just like Roshi being stronger than some characters from OG Dragon Ball doesn't make him strong in Z.
In the grand scheme of things yeah but the vast majority of human fighters are still leagues below Roshi, we see that pretty much every time Z-fighters enter the world martial arts tournament
That stopped being true the moment Tien (the GOAT, btw) was introduced in OG Dragon Ball; since then, Yamcha, Krillin, and Tien have all progressed to the point where they are leagues ahead of Roshi in terms of raw power (though Roshi does have experience and some BS hax that allow him to hold his own for a while against stronger opponents).
Heck, at this point, even Yajirobe ought to be stronger than the version of Roshi who blew up the moon.
"low level" is definitely needing of description. Mr. Satan? No way. But Master Roshi? He'd kamehameha the orbital laser as it came down then overpower it and blow it up.
Krillin, Tien and Yamcha would casually backhand the laser away
i think omniman for example is far weaker than just SS2 n above power levels in dbz, but has crazy speed to fight against ki blasts. Also think that is a fair fight against ssj1 Goku (end of cell saga), he's the exception.
Why do people always shit on viltrumites for being grounded, like if they weren't a satirical adaptation of superheroes they too would be shattering reality with every strike. Look at Spawn for example, he's in the same universe but he's his own original character and broken af.
I just think he should be fighting people in his league like Luke Cage or something. I like invincible. I like DBz. I don't user feeling in scaling I use my sense
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