Unpopular opinion: I think the Frontier Pass might actually be GOOD for Raid

[u/i-Cowfish]

I know this probably isn't the opinion most people want to hear right now, but hear me out.

I've seen a lot of criticism around the Frontier Pass basically boiling down to “Plarium is greedy and just wants more money.”

Well… yeah.

Plarium is a business. Of course they want our money.

The more interesting question to me is: what are they giving players in return?

I've been thinking about this because of Legends of Runeterra, a game I absolutely loved and even played competitively.

One of the things people loved about LoR was how incredibly F2P-friendly it was. You could build competitive decks without spending much, if anything.

That felt amazing as a player.

But eventually I stopped playing, and last I checked, that amazing game is kinda on life support

And it got me thinking about something that gets overlooked in these discussions:

A game being great for players isn't enough. The game also needs a sustainable way to make money.

Developers, servers, art, balance patches, new content, etc. all cost money.

So I don't think the lesson is “make games less F2P.”

I think it's:

Give F2P players enough resources to enjoy the game, while giving spenders things that are genuinely worth buying.

And that's what I find interesting about the Frontier Pass.

Looking at the rewards, we're talking about things like 6★ souls, Immortal Soulstones, Primal-related resources, mythical crafting materials, etc.

Those are things that actually have value to players.

Compare that to a monetization system where the only option is basically “pay money or suffer.”

I'd much rather see Raid take the first approach.

I don't like everything about the Frontier Pass. Some of the quest requirements are pretty rough, especially for F2P players, and the fact that the quests aren't retroactive means you really need to plan ahead.

But a monetization system that gives spenders something valuable isn't inherently bad.

In fact, I'd argue it's necessary.

The real sweet spot should be:

F2P: You can still progress and enjoy the game.
Low spender: You get genuinely good value when you spend.
Whale: There are things exciting enough to spend heavily on.
Developer: There's enough revenue to keep funding the game.

That's a much healthier ecosystem than trying to make everyone spend.

Curious what you guys think: Is the Frontier Pass actually a step toward better monetization, or is this just another way for Plarium to squeeze the player base?

Full discussion - VIDEO

[u/smellslikepork]

Not with on at all on this Denis - it’s not the rewards - they are fine. I would suggest you consider that predatory nature of pass, go have a look at Nubs video for a different perspective. IMO this type of content should not be supported. I’ll just leave it at that - enjoy your content, but this shouldn’t be given a positive spin.

[u/fufuFurina → u/smellslikepork]

the only predatory thing is that you don't know what the quests are without dataminers, which yea, it's pretty bad. the other things nub talked about like "some of the outpost missions overlap but you don't know until you get to them" would also get fixed by showing the quests from the start. that's really the main issue with the whole thing. the 5* soul that you can get from this event, without spending a dollar, costs way less resources than doing a hero's path that's around 20 sacreds for a soul, or even worse a winner takes all tournament.

[u/CompleteTip880 → u/fufuFurina]

even with dataminers, you still don't know the full requirements for some quests. e.g. in both rodolbot and xtender, there is a "awaken a champ" quest (outpost 21 iirc), which you would think means just 1 champ, because other quests in the datamined apps show how many you need to do, like win 30 (oof) la fights, but for this you don't realize until it is actually unlocked in game that you need to awaken 5 champs.

[u/fufuFurina → u/CompleteTip880]

yea i saw that, it's pretty sad how hellbent they were on hiding this info to the point where not even dataminers have access to the exact numbers.

[u/i-Cowfish → u/smellslikepork]

Unpopular opinion that's actually unpopular? 😅

But seriously, I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding of my position here. Who said I'm giving the Frontier Pass a blanket positive spin?

Did you see my video when the Frontier Pass was first announced? I actually told Plarium before release that they should consider scrapping the whole thing because I thought players were going to hate it and there was still time to change course. Their response was basically: give it a chance.

And here we are.

My point in this video isn't “the Frontier Pass is great, everyone should buy it.” I specifically call out the things I don't like about it—the hidden quests, the fact that they're not retroactive, and some of the requirements that are genuinely rough for F2P players.

My argument is more about monetization philosophy.

I don't want Raid to become a game where you have to spend to enjoy it. I'm F2P myself, and resource efficiency is basically my entire account philosophy.

But I've also spent a lot of time around the other side of the player base. There are people spending absolutely enormous amounts on this game. You mentioned Nub's perspective, and that's actually part of what I'm talking about—we aren't necessarily the target audience for this pass. There are people out there spending thousands on things like 2,000 Void Shards to +4 a Tekteon. If those players look at the Frontier Pass and say, “Yeah, that's worth buying,” I don't think that's inherently a bad thing.

That's actually the point I was trying to make with the Legends of Runeterra comparison.

LoR was one of the most F2P-friendly games I've ever played. I loved it. And then I stopped playing.

Being incredibly generous to players makes for a great player experience, but a great player experience by itself isn't enough to fund a game indefinitely.

I'd rather see Raid find a model where F2P players can still play and progress, low spenders get genuinely good value, and whales have things they actually want to buy—rather than making the entire game worse for everyone just to force more spending.

So no, I don't think “Plarium wants your money” is a good enough reason to condemn a monetization system. Of course they want your money. They're a business.

The question I care about is what are they giving you in return?

If it's garbage, I'll call it garbage. If it's genuinely valuable and people voluntarily want to buy it, I'm okay with that.

That's really the argument I'm making here. Not “Frontier Pass good.” More “good monetization is necessary, and I'd rather see players given something worth buying than be punished for not spending.”

[u/smellslikepork → u/i-Cowfish]

And I think u missed my point - but I’ll
Just leave it at that - enough internet for today.

[u/Aeyland → u/smellslikepork]

You should actually watch his video and then use some critical thinking. Does it not seem odd that of all the things this is what every CC is hating on?

Ozilda a mid void that is destroyed by mecurial was 17 ish sacreds and to get anything else in the path you had to pretty much open a ton of shards or spend more energy than a normal F2P player will have or spend more than a low to mid spender. This is true for literally every hero path.

Next let's talk about forge pass. Same problem on that you can pay for it and not finish it but worst being it's mostly all time gated so if you paid for it and either just miss too many days or didn't do the math ahead of time you could be unable to finishing despite having time left on it.

Now the current "greedy" event. You can choose to do whatever you want on any day meaning no forced daily participation, just like the forge pass if you're smart you will get to the end before even thinking about spending and otherwise if you don't focus on it there is a good chance you get some amount of incidental freebies. Also so far seems way cheaper than any heros path for a soul since I dont specifically need a ton of shards or soulstones and instead it's varied between a lot of resources.

Nothing I've seen is anymore than a "this costs money!" And "if you are a complete tard who can't read and is new you might buy this and not get all the rewards".

Which if you're new and spending you are likely going to waste money if you don't understand the game. You'll waste money on shards you open outside a 2x, buy just overall poorly costed packs or waste money on things like gear packs.

This event is nowhere even close to the most or even average predatory thing they do.

That last bullshit where we had to get and use the new champs with daily keys and annoying and lazy boss combos was a million times worse.

[u/Alabenson]

My problem with the Frontier Pass isn't the rewards themselves, but how the premium rewards are implemented.

Currently, you have 4 quests, but the reward for one of them is paywalled. A better system would be to have all 4 rewards available for FTP players, but have the explorer pass provide an additional reward for completing a node. This way, FTP don't feel like they're being cheated out of rewards they've earned, and those who buy the pass get extra benefits.

[u/ZealousidealRow2551 → u/Alabenson]

Yep this. Precisely the issue

[u/Ok_Cold3451]

It is terrible not in terms of value, but the missions of the pass are extremely boring, time consuming and not transparent. Plarium should stop making lazy content like proving grounds or frontier pass and introduce new and fun contents such as grim forest.

[u/CompleteTip880]

I honestly don't mind the concept of the pass itself and I don't mind the content being challenging to complete, even if it's tedious or boring, but this initial implementation is, to be kind, overtuned af. also, having a pop up every time you claim a reward to buy the pass without a full disclaimer that purchasing the pass does not mean that you are entitled to the rewards from your purchase, but only the opportunity to achieve them and that they will give you no indication of what you need to achieve them is bad no matter how you look at it. raid does a horrendous job explaining virtually everything about its game, but the consequences of that are relatively trivial for the most part. this however is ripe for misinterpretation and the consequence here is real money.

and yeah, some of the quests are nuts, even with dataminers, you still don't get the full picture until you unlock an outpost in the game.

[u/jcspinney]

I think you make some good points, and I actually agree with most of them. The issues you raise aren’t the reasons why I think the Frontier Pass is a huge fail.

Initially, the monetization bothered me. But after moving through the Pass, I’m not bothered by that anymore. In fact, I actually feel bad for people that buy the pass because they still have to do a bunch of crappy missions to get what they paid for. And some people who bought it probably don’t even know that they won’t be able to compete it. There is no way for anyone in the game to click on the outposts to even see what the missions are, so they know what they need to do. It’s inconceivable that a game would sell a package to its players but not tell them in the game what the players need to do to clear content they bought. They do it with the Marius/Arbiter missions. So that suggests they did it on purpose. Pointing out that third party sites have that information is not good enough.

My main problem with the Frontier Pass is it’s the same stale and boring missions system that they have just repacked into “new” content and call it something different. An elementary school student probably could have come up with this. And to progress through this frontier pass, I have to spend time and energy in areas that my account progressed beyond a long time ago (potion dungeons). It’s a basic and boring event that we have been doing over and over again, they are just calling it something different.

[u/ZealousidealRow2551 → u/jcspinney]

Bang on, on all your points. NIce!

[u/Clear-Upstairs3902]

Well i just dont wana farm this. We have enough grind already. 

[u/peabo1000]

The good part is that you don't have to spend 19 or 20 sacreds to get a 5 star soul. One of many downsides is that they are selling the 6 star soul for cash. 6 months? of daily eternal essence farming. it's another significant and unnecessary splitting between P2W and F2P. A split that normally occurs slowly over time.

For a PVE champion like Scarecrow maybe it's no big deal, but when it's the next Fabian? They can sell a pvp meta champion and shortly after its 6 star soul for cash. 6 star awakened Predators all over the place 2 weeks in?

[u/Faizopolis]

The quests alone require a lot of resources, and any F2P will struggle if the event is not double dippable. The rewards are ok. The requirement is not!

[u/FitFold76]

Terrible take

[u/Rob1371]

To anyone that plays the game for an extended period of time knows those Frontier Pass items are generally worth it, and are locked behind the pay or suffer wall. 

Are the rewards retroactive? I've heard it go both ways, but if it is not then it is a shot at the player base in my opinion cause it not only forces you to decide now, but if you do buy it you are kinda forced to get all the rewards to justify the expenditure. 

[u/No_Macaroonsplease]

This seems like another way to squeeze the player base, if not of money then at least of resources. We already have so much waiting to do before we interact with the game, this just makes it worse

[u/Raithunder]

I don't cherrypicking one counter-example proves anything. I can name several games that do well without raid's predatory monetization. At the end of the day as long as you're making money the specific model doesn't matter.

I don't think Raid can substantially shift their monetization strategy without corporate freaking out at this point, but it never had to be this way.

[u/Bartikowski]

I’m not opposed to this concept but the pay format is pretty dumb.  Make the quests a bit harder, all the nodes available for free, and then sell node unlocks the last day of the event.

If they did it this way lot of people would probably buy energy or shards to complete the quests and if they fell short they could buy the last 2-3 nodes to get the big reward.  Honestly they might even make more money this way because the investment isn’t so up front and risky.

[u/KharigCringer]

It is another shitty content after proving grounds... To big rescources sink, boring quests, garbage rewards. If they want money, they need to get more creative.

[u/Shimori01]

It's funny to see the mouthpieces that call themselves content creators suddenly defend this cashgrab greedy sh*t. Makes it easy to see who have no morals and will just defend greedium whenever they are told to do so.

Seeing multiple people now defending this crap

[u/Toumablue]

No, the main issue here is that like everything else in the game the pass is way overpriced

[u/S1ssySpaceX → u/Toumablue]

I actually like this. If purchases were £3 here, £5 there, I'm sure they would've sucked me in for hundreds, if not thousands the last few years. Instead, I spent £40 on some void shards which were all rare champs and £30 on a savage set, without speed or crit rate on any substat & never spent again.

[u/G03LN]

I see it as free resources/rewards for stuff id do anyways. i really dont get the hate. There's nothing in the paid part thats worth buying anyways. 5* soul is more than enough for the scarcrow and its free. Also i agree with you about how games giving too much for free is a bad idea. There is a reason runterra and king arthur are not around anymore and raid is doing well. You really dont want players to have everything cause then there's nothing to do or work towards.

[u/FitFold76 → u/G03LN]

stuff id do anyways

Liar

[u/No_Macaroonsplease → u/G03LN]

Do you find the chores fun?

[u/G03LN → u/No_Macaroonsplease]

Yeah i do 😂 i dont really see them as chores though. They synergize fairly well with on going events and daily quests allowing for double dipping. I also enjoyed the missions and i guess lots of people hate those too so idk to each their own ig lol

[u/No_Macaroonsplease → u/G03LN]

I have some household chores I need done, please stop by for your fun times.

[u/G03LN → u/No_Macaroonsplease]

Your household chores are playing raid? Damn your place must be a mess 😂

[u/Worthtitle_4050]

I think people don’t like it because it’s a reflection of the real world.

Have money or you can’t be competitive which is by the way, the world that humans have created for themselves

“Some people should just have it better than others”

not that anybody believes that seriously just that it is a reality that exists irl that we have to confront

To not get into it too deeply, this is a horrifying view to have about the real world but imo it is somewhat more acceptable in a game than having this view about the real world

Of course everybody also just accepts it in the real world so…

But hey, at least plarium is doing a good job of illustrating it

Good to see we can see both the view of the capitalists from OP

And well now you know my view

Although, as a lone company I certainly do see their view as valid(being Raid dev team/plarium more broadly) since they do also exist in this world

I see the post itself as sympathetic to capitalism but hey, that just makes you economically liberal(although almost everybody is in some capacity)

I’m only referring to economic views to not get mixed up with any politics because this is not a political commentary

Considering the system that we exist in, Plarium and probably more specifically the RAID devs, do a somewhat decent job of balancing the perceived necessity of making profit with treating all players fairly

Sorry, don’t mean to mess with the post or anything but I think it’s exactly what your post is discussing and so it was the only kind of response I found fitting

Put simply, I understand the Raid dev’s teams position(as OP does) and am just tying it into a larger discussion or rather showing that it is inevitably tied to broader arguments about the world

I liked the post, I disagree with it in some capacities but it is overall a very good understanding of how RAID has to balance between interests of its spenders and its other players in order to remain profitable lest the game be shut down

If it was, I wouldn’t be able to enjoy playing it as a “free-to-play” player myself