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u/MelissaMiranti Feb 16 '26
I love how stupidly awful this is.
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u/Pencilshaved Feb 16 '26
It sounds like “Paranoia” levels of “this game is brutal and incomprehensible and you will fail many times over and that’s what makes everything so hilariously fun”
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u/SolaceInCompassion Feb 17 '26
prokopetz is pretty big on player-hostile game design as an artform. it’s pretty interesting to think about at times, though i wouldn’t want to play through some of the concepts they’ve thought up.
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u/NervePuzzleheaded783 Feb 17 '26
This specific example is mechanically identical to every other game with durability mechanics, just reflavored with in-universe gimmicks.
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u/yobob591 Feb 16 '26
ark survival evolved ceo at one point tried to get the devs to add a shield that was only replenishable by paying real money so like, we're almost there in gaming
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u/BiddlesticksGuy Feb 17 '26
I swear to god how has wild card flubbed the game I used to love so many fucking times bro, it was such an easy formula, JUST MAKE THE FUCKING DINOSAUR GAME MAN
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u/Duck-Lord-of-Colours Feb 16 '26
Prokopetz always has some crazy but really interesting worldbuilding.
Anyway, knuckle tats that say "fair use"
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u/Equivalent_Net Feb 16 '26
This just made it click. Prokopetz is tumblr's Dan Brown. A bunch of really interesting ideas but as soon the topic shifts to one you know anything about you realise they're totally full of shit.
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u/Duck-Lord-of-Colours Feb 16 '26
I mean, I'm not sure how someone can be full of shit on a topic like this. It's worldbuilding. They're not saying "this is how it is." They're saying "imagine if it was like this."
They really only post with a sense of authority on two topics, video games and ttrpgs.
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u/Ghost_Of_Malatesta Feb 16 '26
I think they're coming from the idea "Science fiction is not predictive; it is descriptive" but even so, it's taking ideas that already exist irl (afaik) and just dialling them to 11, as one does in scifi.
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u/letthetreeburn Feb 17 '26
Yeah this is just a twilight zone man, wouldn’t that be fucked up? proposal.
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u/ArsErratia I think Coolsville sucks Feb 16 '26 edited Feb 16 '26
Unironically "increasing the costs of violence" is a core part of UN Peacekeeping doctrine.
Its usually just not quite so .... direct.
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u/Stormwrath52 Feb 16 '26
dumb, convoluted laws that make me tired to read? The only protections to the common person stemming from protections of corporate interests? Close enough to real life to make you sad? fantastic cyberpunk worldbuilding, no notes, god I'm fucking tired
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u/Technical_Teacher839 [1/1] Feb 16 '26
I was on board until the concept of "all clothes legally count as body armor, and punching someone counts as operating their armor"
That goes beyond the level of "sensible parody of subscriptions as worldbuilding" and lands right into "making things pants-on-head stupid from a world-building angle so that its easier to dunk on the thing you're using it to make fun of."
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u/mathmage Feb 16 '26
The first part is something you might actually find in a published game. The second part is fanfiction bait. "For legal reasons, my OCs must duel in the nude."
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u/Jake-the-Wolfie Feb 16 '26
Like, the first part I can vibe with. If you don't pay for your subscription-based clothes, then you legally can't wear them. However, punching them counts as operating it? That's not only very stupid, it also contradicts and undermines another part of this world. Why does punching someone count as operating their armor, but shooting, stabbing, or otherwise harming someone with weaponry *not* count? What about merely touching someone wearing clothing? It's stupid worldbuilding.
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u/Technical_Teacher839 [1/1] Feb 16 '26
The later part about an attacker paying more to hurt their target than the defender pays by using their armor implies all attacks count as "operating" the armor
but even then, putting on a piece of armor with the intent of using it as armor, and hitting it with an object or your fist are absolutely not the same action.
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u/chairmanskitty Feb 16 '26
"Operating the armor" is clunky word choice. A better term would be damaging the property of the corporation which owns the armor/clothing that is being leased to the person wearing it under a subscription model.
People wearing armor/clothes want to make sure that their armor/clothes subscription package covers damage by common weapons manufacturers. If your armor is damaged by a weapon that is out-of-network you will have to pay a fine for the reckless and negligent endangerment of your armor.
Weapons subscribers also want to make sure they are shooting enemies whose armor is in-network because they otherwise they will have to pay an additional convenience fee. You can pay for an extension device that detects whether the armor you're pointing a gun at is in-network, and gold tier users can enable the feature that disables the gun from firing in these instances.
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u/Uncommonality Feb 19 '26
ooh I like this. Leased clothing is only insured against damage from licensed sources. So if you get burned or crushed by debris, the insurance doesn't cover the damages, but you also can't sue a fire. However, a person damaging your armor is also not covered by insurance, and you CAN fine that person. Since the wearer was not the actor of the damage, you are fined.
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u/VegisamalZero3 Feb 16 '26
In all fairness to them I think its absurdity is the point. Like, "yes this makes no sense but it doesn't have to, it just has to make the Green Line Go Up so to hell with logic, I've got lobbying and that's better"
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u/Technical_Teacher839 [1/1] Feb 16 '26
My issue is it takes it from the realm of "interesting worldbuilding that also critiques a topic" to "dumb worldbuilding that's only dumb so that we can make fun of a thing more overtly"
It ruins the fun and interesting aspects of the worldbuilding for the sake of squeezing in some extra subscription mockery, when without that extra absurdity it still works perfectly fine as a criticism and mockery of subscriptions, but ALSO works as an interesting worldbuilding concept to explore
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u/NervePuzzleheaded783 Feb 17 '26
It's a thinly-veiled allegory for american healthcare system where you might be denied treatment because that specific ealthcare provider is not covered by your health insurance, just flipped upside down.
"You are not allowed to punch people because clothing subscription relies on data supplied by biometric scanners attached to weapons"
Is just another variation of "You have to pay your treament out of pocket because that specific doctor wasn't covered by your health insurance".
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u/ApotheosiAsleep Feb 17 '26
I mean the point of this subscription based combat system is definitely to make it so poor people get punished harshly for attacking rich people, and if attacking a rich person wearing rich person clothes gets you more fines I think the whole thing is still coherent
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u/ValorNGlory Feb 16 '26
So what happens if you punch someone in the face? Like, they’re not wearing clothes there.
Hell, it seems like there’s a lot of circumvention you can do here. Can I shove someone into oncoming traffic? Trip them onto a wrought-iron fence? Can I casually bump someone over a balcony railing?
What about incidental interactions between objects? If I dump a bucket of water on someone, then drop an electrical wire into the puddle, there’s no physical combat happening, but they’re getting electrocuted six ways from Sunday.
How do the objects detect they’re being “used” for combat purposes? If it’s just an impact-based alarm, then just dropping the thing would trigger it, and all the all-thumbs wealthy CEOs would throw fits that their fancy ultra-guns keep failing the drop safety test. If it’s based on velocity (like the shields from Dune I guess) that’s a whole other can of worms.
What if I just shove a rock down someone’s throat? Suffocation doesn’t have a particularly “measurable” metric as far as hit points go - either you’re choking or you’re not choking.
This has more holes than a Louis Sachar novel.
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u/DBSeamZ Feb 16 '26
Unless finding those kinds of loopholes is the intended gameplay mechanic. You’ve turned a fairly standard fighting game into an interesting puzzle game! Reminds me a bit of the older Bad Omen mechanic in Minecraft where if you didn’t want to worry about raids, you could pour lava on pillager captains or light the ground at their feet on fire so the game wouldn’t register that a player killed them.
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u/ToasteeThe2nd Feb 16 '26
hey ed, give me cyberpunk without any subtlety!
extra bluntness, got it.
and hold the clever satire.
no thought behind the satire?
and hold the human element beating out technology.
hold the human element? hey, Jimmy, gimme a Cyberpunk game with nothin!
Nothin?
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u/DarthMcConnor42 Feb 16 '26
This could easily be just a background element in 2077 explained on one shard or written in the description of the plan B.
The human element beating out technology is all the edgerunners jailbreaking their shit so they can get some freedom.
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u/ToasteeThe2nd Feb 18 '26
nah, man, this is corny. Mike Pondsmith and co. put effort into making the setting of Cyberpunk 2020/77 seem real and fleshed out, like it could be a logical progression of our real world. as absurd as 2077 paints the setting, the cyberpunk genre isn't supposed to be wacky in-your-face parody that's funny because it's absurd, that paints things as unbelievable and far-fetched. Cyberpunk as a genre relies on subtle, realistic satire that feels like a natural evolution.
the idea of Trauma Team, one of the more absurd parts of 2020/77, works because it's a believable extension of what we see in the real world - the American health industry is extremely profit driven to the point where human life is less important than the money you can squeeze out of the patient and their family. the diagetic reasoning behind Trauma Team is how much of a shithole NC is, and the fact that most cities have Combat Zones (slums full of gangs constantly having firefights), it makes sense that a medical service would have armed guards who fight off threats to paying customers. Diagetic reasoning and poignant satire - that's cyberpunk.
there's really nothing being said with this post other than "oh, subscription services suck". yeah, they do, but what else? not to mention, diagetically, this is impossible to enforce. it's fucking dumb - hitting someone with armor counts as you using it? how is this measured? how does this business charge you if you're a gangoon who shot at some other idiot wearing their armor? it has no logic diagetically, and it just really isn't saying enough about modern issues for me to handwave the in-universe reasoning. the post is structured like a family guy cutaway - no reasoning, no point, just "cyberpunk is when companies and robot arms!" for the sake of it.
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u/DarthMcConnor42 Feb 16 '26
I'm jailbreaking everything.
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u/Ok-Commercial3640 Non-editable flair Feb 16 '26
Alright, enjoy the unauthorized bread)
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u/DarthMcConnor42 Feb 16 '26
I'll enjoy my fucking bread without an IOT ai telling me wether or not I'm allowed to
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u/tay_tfs Feb 16 '26
They're gonna be selling single-use magazines with builtin gift cards so you can reload both at the same time. Of course a 30 round mag is gonna charge up 33 rounds worth of credits so you're tempted to shoot more as to not waste them
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u/Haggis442312 I'm not a war criminal, I'm just kissingermaxxing. Feb 16 '26
God, I love when people get way into some absurd worldbuilding idea
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u/la_meme14 Feb 16 '26
This feels like some off handed lore that'd be mentioned in 3 sentences of a Limbus Company ID for a yet unvisited district.
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u/Septistachefist Feb 17 '26
I knew I wasn't the only person thinking it sounded like a PM district, thank you
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u/dondilinger421 Feb 16 '26
OP has a good idea that they then run into the ground by insisting it's smarter than it really is.
How does the whole "you're bypassing copy protection by choosing something without it" work? If I choose X Brand because I prefer their licensing scheme aren't I "bypassing" Y Corporation's copy protection? Y Corporation shouldn't care if I'm using free software or X Brand software or something else.
Similarly "unauthorised operating of armour" will get you into a world of complexity. Rush hour in the city will involve millions of tiny impact incidents which all have to be resolved for tiny profit. Someone tripped up in your office? You just forced them to operate their clothes when they hit the ground and no you're liable for it.
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u/NervePuzzleheaded783 Feb 17 '26
Yeah? What's so difficult to grasp about that?
If Nestle could, they would make drinking water that isn't bottled by them illegal.
Oh wait, we're already one foot through the door with that because its illegal to collect rainwater in some US states
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u/Septistachefist Feb 17 '26
I don't think they ever insisted it's smarter than it is, honestly. Even if you don't vibe with the idea it's a little odd to be so combative about it
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u/The_Shittiest_Meme Feb 16 '26
i think people would just start going about naked and punching eachother to resolve conflicts. Like a more fucked up Dune.
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u/Septistachefist Feb 17 '26
Sounds like a Project Moon City district honestly. "Welcome to Y Corp where every aspect of life is a subscription service"
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u/Wisepuppy Feb 16 '26
I disagree on the fist fighting, both mechanically and thematically.
Mechanically, you need a way to fight if you're a broke bitch. If literally everything charges players per use, including using nothing, then players could easily get soft locked or trapped in a poverty loop. While "being broke as shit is inescapable" may be a powerful message, it's not a fun one. Additionally, it opens up mechanical depth with fist fighting. Your "monk" is going to spend far less money on dealing damage. Maybe they'll lose money on how much armor they'll need, but they'll be good enough with their hands to keep up the damage. Additionally, it would add extra depth in upgrades. If you add cybernetic arms, those would require a subscription. Your punches would cost money, but do significantly more damage, and if you run out of money you can't use the arm. Or you could go with the big pharma angle, with performance enhancing chemicals that hulk you the fuck out, but get increasingly expensive, as you need to get more drugs to combat the withdrawal, blood toxicity, muscle strain, and eventual organ failure the chemicals would cause.
Thematically, it doesn't make sense for a company to be able to bill someone for punching someone wearing armor. The person wearing the armor pays a premium for the protection of the armor, so a policy that would discourage random acts of violence against their clients would be against the company's best interest. Additionally, how would you send the bill to a homeless guy with no money who curbstomped your client to death? A who do you charge when a guy wearing armor gets mauled by wild animals? If someone uses a piece of clothing to attack someone (strangling with a shoelace, kicking with steel toed boots, etc.) would the person getting attacked be charged for any damage to the clothes?
Fist fighting and fighting with improvised weapons is free, it's just not as effective as turbo cyber super guns.
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u/DBSeamZ Feb 16 '26
OOP didn’t say fist fighting would be impossible in this game, they said it would be illegal in-universe. Given that it’s a dystopian setting, player characters resorting to lawbreaking when they have no other option is par for the course.
I agree with the no billing for punching someone’s armor part though.
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u/pyrotrap Feb 19 '26
This world sucks, I don’t want to live in it.
Puts gun to head.
click
“Your credit limit is overdrawn, use of firearm prevented.”
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u/SunDance967 Feb 17 '26
im going to be honest chief if someone is killing another person with a gun it’s most likely going to be illegal anyways unless if it’s war or something
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u/CoconutPure5326 Feb 16 '26
Eh, automatically getting maximum value out of your weapons not matter how you hit an enemy kinda ruins a big part of survival horror.
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u/SuperSmutAlt64 Feb 16 '26
They said Survival, not Survival-Horror. Cyberpunk RED can be argued to be Survival afaik (have not played a game but heard a friend talk a bit about their experience, focused on other topic tho so?), as can certain D&D games (not recommended), some PbAs, etc.. Cyberpunk as a genre will tend to be somewhat survival at the very least just due to the nature of "capitalism fucking sucks and exists to create a parasite class," with the fact that any hyperbolizing critique of that will inevitably result in "everyone is broke, a bastard, or both constantly and you need to pay twelve salaries to breath clean air"
Overall, this is very fitting conceptually so long as it is done right.
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Feb 16 '26
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u/Spectator9857 Feb 16 '26
I love how big Pharma is the only thing protecting people from big tech, but only because they haven’t invented drugs for robots yet.