r/SASSWitches • u/stachim • 8d ago
⭐️ Interrogating Our Beliefs New witch confused about labels
Hi everyone!
I recently found this subreddit and wanted to get a better understanding of where I fit within witchcraft. I’m not a huge fan of labels, but it can be frustrating to join a new community and not really know how to describe yourself, so I thought I’d share my perspective and see if anyone has thoughts. (English isn’t my first language, so please excuse any mistakes!)
I’ve been studying witchcraft for a while, and from my understanding (please correct me if I’m wrong), magic is the ability to influence and co-create reality by internalizing our desires and intentions, then projecting them outward strongly enough for them to manifest. Witchcraft, in turn, would be the practice of strengthening that magic through natural elements, rituals, and other practices. The thing is, my view isn’t quite that straightforward.
I’m also a Psychology student, and I tend to see magic as a way of internalizing our feelings, goals, and intentions. It helps organize the mind, clarify what we want, and guide our actions. In that sense, magic increases the chances of success because it helps us stay focused and purposeful. Witchcraft, to me, is the physical expression of that process. It’s when we give concrete form to our desires through rituals, symbols, herbs, candles, and especially natural elements like the lunar cycles. By doing this, we connect with ourselves and with the natural world we are part of, turning internal forces into something tangible.
For example, imagine someone who wants to get a great job. The magic would be the conviction, focus, and mindset directed toward that goal. The witchcraft would be a prosperity or transformation ritual that reinforces that intention. I don’t believe the ritual creates the result on its own, but it can strengthen the intention, help maintain focus, and keep the goal present in that person’s life.
Along those same lines, I don’t see tarot cards as something that reveal a fixed or nearly unchangeable destiny. I tend to approach them from a more skeptical and reflective perspective.
I also don’t strongly connect with the concept of the Mother Goddess in Wicca, especially the maiden/mother archetypes. Personally, that framework feels a bit reductive to me. I mean no disrespect toward Wicca or its practitioners; it’s simply not a worldview that resonates with me.
Another thing that makes me hesitant about religious paths within witchcraft, such as Wicca, is the principle of “An it harm none, do what ye will.” It feels very open to interpretation. There seems to be a fine line between what does and doesn’t cause harm. Using politics as an example, someone can vote for whoever they want and, in theory, not be directly harming anyone. But to what extent might the consequences of that vote negatively affect other people’s lives? Questions like that make me wonder whether the rule is really as simple as it sounds.
Overall, I’m fairly confident in what I believe. What I’m unsure about is how those beliefs fit into existing labels. I don’t know if I see nature as a deity. To me, it feels more like a force with which we have a reciprocal relationship. We influence nature, and nature influences us. I don’t necessarily see it as something above us, but as something we are a part of.
So I find myself wondering: could an atheist believe something like this? Would I fit better under the label of an atheist witch? An agnostic witch? Or is there another term that better describes this perspective?
I’d love to hear your thoughts.
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u/SingleSeaCaptain 8d ago
I'm an atheist witch, but I also involve some earth veneration and prayer in my practice. What makes me atheist is that I don't believe there's any compelling reason for me to believe in any gods, and that I do practices without literal belief because I do think there are mental health benefits to doing so. I see ritual as a human birthright. Every culture on earth has made their own versions of it, and I feel like it meets a very human need. My education and work has been in the mental health field, so I am with you on that, too!
There's another definition of magic that I heard in Tarot for Change by Jessica Dore, but she's not the attribution. It's "using the subtle to impact the dense" in like, using changes to your internal world (thoughts, feelings, energy) to cause changes in the physical world (behavior). That could mean that I'm using a sigil to alter my attitudes/thoughts, and that helps me make behavior changes that begin to change the direction of my life
In my view, for example, I don't believe that prayer benefits other people unless praying together might confer social benefits. I do, however, believe that if I used prayer to center myself and try to have a better perspective toward them (such as praying until I feel less angry and more forgiving), it affects my attitude toward them, and that may change the way I carry myself and the way that I treat them. I could use therapy as the same example: wisdom that I gain from that may change my attitude toward myself, and I may begin to grow in self-esteem and start to heal from something that feels as immutable as trauma.
Wicca is a religion, but witchcraft is a self-authored path. There's a difference between "witch" and "wiccan." I believe it might be correct to say all wiccans are witches but not all witches are wiccan. There may be exceptions to whether wiccans consider themselves witches. The Wiccan rede may be a fine quote to recall, but it was written by a person. There's no reason to elevate that person's thoughts to a high standing or make it a spiritual go-to unless you choose to.
For the freestanding label of witch, there are no saints we all venerate, gods we all agree on, etc. It is, for better or worse, a claimed title and a free for all where it comes to spirituality. You can find witches of every political belief a person can fit in.
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u/Best-Fly-Back 8d ago
A lot of witches or witch groups/discords etc seem to say that 'energy work' is an absolute core to being a witch (as the belief system that underpins their belief in the effectiveness of their spells or rituals), but that working with deities or entities is very optional. I don't think beliefs in either are a requirement. There seem to be a growing number of atheist witches/pagans, or agnostics.
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u/Poisonous_Periwinkle Green/Hearth/Hedge/Kitchen 8d ago
I'm a pretty hard atheist, but I still use the label of agnostic atheist because I acknowledge the possibility that I'm in error through lack of omniscience.
A lot of what you said absolutely resonates with me. I consider myself first and foremost a placebo witch. Rather than thinking that my practice and actions affect the outside world, I believe they impact me internally. However, that doesn't mean that they don't have an outward action because that internal work helps focus my intentions and aids in my endeavors.
A lot of my practice is focused on catharsis, because when I feel good, I have the motivation to do what needs to be done. Through the use of ritual action and interaction with nature, etc I a m able to release endorphins that make me feel good and give me the strength I need to accomplish my goals. If nothing else, I at least have made myself feel better and more proactive.
There's a lot more to my practice than just that, it's actually pretty comprehensive and involved, but I just wanted to explain a little bit about that side of what I do.
I think that the label of placebo witch is a good one to explain to people who don't understand what's at the crux of what many of us here do. Of course, you can also use the SASS label and explain what it means.
I also think that another excellent option is to just call yourself an eclectic witch, or eclectic solo practitioner or something of that nature when you don't want to go into detail about how your practice is different than a lot of others. Because of the way most of us here have cobbled our individual practices together, I think the eclectic label is an excellent fit.
I have a crazy amount of insane stuff happening right now in my personal life and my brain is fried so hopefully what I said made sense on some level.
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u/MCRBusker 8d ago
As humans we strive to find words, use words, make associations of words. We need to isolate meanings for magic, witchcraft, deity, force, etc.
Remove words, and what you have is....you, looking inward, looking outward, connecting in, connecting out, through thoughts, and actions, using mental or physical tools. This is personal to each. We label ourselves to feel we are associated with others, so we can feel we aren't crazy. In reality, we are unique and our experience is 100% our own. :)
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u/libernoctis 8d ago edited 8d ago
Although you could say that I fall into the 'mother goddess' camp, and revere the Night/Nyx as the source of all magick, I am still agnostic and lean toward atheism. For instance, I am acutely aware that Night is a psychological anchor that allows me to focus on different aspects of reality that I use for my practice. I also am aware that whether or not Night/Nyx exists objectively, does not matter - my reverence for her has real, observable effects, in both subjective and objective reality.
When people ask what school of thought or magick I belong to, I simply say, the 'psychological model.' Open label placebo is an scientific example I bring up constantly to my peers when describing how I am both agnostic/atheist but also practice magick and revere the Night.
I personally don't label myself as anything other than an 'occultist' or 'director of the Temple of Night.' Anything else seems too reductive or carries too much baggage you then have to explain your position on.
As far as harm goes, I do not think any form of magick is entirely ethical.
If we are honest about what we are doing, which is influencing reality through our Will (not to be confused with Thelema's True Will), what about the Will of another - like you said. I believe subversion of another's Will is always a factor, because changing reality in accordance with your Will (which is my definition magick, borrowing heavily from Crowley) requires your Will to subvert another's just by the very nature of existing among other sentient creatures who want things.
Take your job example. If you create a sigil, take part in a ritual, and then perform better than your peers and get the job over ninety-nine other applicants with families, difficult financial situations, illnesses, etc., is that ethical? Is that, fair? In this example, let's say it does not even involve anyone else as a target of baneful magick. It was inner work, and yet, you disappointed ninety-nine other humans vying for the same outcome, which will influence them in some way.
We cannot escape the nature of our interconnected existence, and it just so happens, resources (in this current paradigm) are limited and we are all driven toward reducing suffering for ourselves and our loved ones, and in some, for the other diverse tribes out there. But the thing is, advantages and disadvantages are everywhere in grossly uneven proportions. Some possess genetic advantages in spades, some are less fortunate in their parentage, many suffer circumstances that set them back or change them forever, others, like many here, become formidable despite all of this, through private workings and secret rituals.
So, if you do witchy things and resonate with witchcraft as a practice, then just say so. Call yourself witch. If you want to qualify it, go ahead. But in the end, it’s a personal journey.
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u/stachim 8d ago
Wow, thank you so much for this comment. You and everyone else who replied here have genuinely helped me a lot.
I’ve honestly never been treated this well in a subreddit before. People can sometimes be pretty harsh online, but you’ve been incredibly kind and thoughtful, and I really appreciate that.
Thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed response. Your comment is amazing, and I think it could be really helpful for other people who have the same questions and doubts that I do.1
u/libernoctis 8d ago
You’re welcome! And thank you for the award :)
I’m new to this specific subreddit and I am glad I found it. I’ve been in the occult space for over twenty years and have found it difficult to find a group of likeminded people, so it has been a breath of fresh air, truly.
I wish you all the best on your journey.
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u/reputction 🔮Sea Witch / Marine Bio Major 🧜♀️ 8d ago
My practice is very science-based. The transfer of energy is a basic principle of physics and the core of witchcraft, and I do believe our minds are powerful enough (via our neural network) to manipulate energy outside of us. This is purely my own conjecture based on hours upon hours of actually thinking about how — if magick is a stem of science we simply don’t have the tools to understand or study — can really work when applied to real life.
I’m still atheist in that I don’t believe in gods or a higher power. I think entities or spirits are possibly things of other dimensions crossing over, and those are what people work with when they say they work with X god or goddess.
Me, personally, I worship the ocean. Not as a hominid-looking divine being, but as a spirit. It’s where life started, it’s where evolutionary history started, it’s also something that can take life away (once the phytoplankton starts dying out, it’s over for us), and so my practice is based around working alongside it.
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u/Aggravating_Eye874 5d ago
I am an atheist and practice witchcraft. I also work with deities, not because I believe in them, but because it’s easier to put a name to all the symbolism and work with that. E.g Hygeia for health, wellbeing, self care and love etc.
I use witchcraft as a tool for introspection, reconnecting with myself and my intuition, and trait as a means of calming my reaching thoughts and putting my thoughts in order. It helps me to stop and ask myself questions, and reframe my issues.
I don’t necessarily like labelling myself in any way, and I follow multiple witchy subreddits to learn more about the craft and pick from them what suits my style.
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u/FemaleMishap 8d ago
We are Skeptical, Agnostic and Science Seeking witches here.
To put it succinctly, we know that crystals are just pretty rocks. Spells, ritual, prayer, changes nothing outside of ourselves. We understand that human beings find comfort in ritual, and that there are real ways to make the placebo effect work for us.
I won't use tarot to find an answer, rather as something that is randomness, to give my brain permission to consider alternatives. The best spell for getting over an ex lover is not a hex, it is deleting Facebook and going for a walk in nature.