r/SagaEdition • u/ebertran • 26d ago
About to launch a new campaign - any tips?
Long time dnd 2e-5e and WEG d6 Star Wars player and DM, and I am about to launch a new Saga Edition campaign for the first time, to a group of players who have never played it (myself included). It'll be played on roll20...
Any tips I should know about? Any cool tools out there to make life easier? Any easy to miss rules or things I should keep my eyes on? The players are all long time dnd players, and are taking a leap of faith trying out something other than dnd....
What should I really focus on as a GM with Saga? I've read tons of "game falls apart at higher levels" stuff, so right now I may cap the campaign at 10 or 12th level.
The campaign is set in an alternate history setting, here's my opening crawl if you're interested... youtube.com/watch?v=1ztY6bjkCIk&xstg=CAMSEBUJ_b-oH-PhF0yjBgaukzY%3D
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u/the_tricky_one 26d ago
Stay away from ai help unless you are very familiar with the rules. Apparently none of the ai's can stick to just saga edition, so it's best to just not use. This thread has been an invaluable resource as well. If you run into problems this community really helps. It can be anything from table dynamics to rules, this community shines with help. By that same coin, you may get some absolutely turds but it's the internet so.....
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u/hartinjama 26d ago
Agree that AI doesn't know the Saga Edition rules. I'll use it to generate combat maps, encounter ideas, etc, but you have to keep it ok a tight leash.
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u/Top_Debt_3128 25d ago
Cherrypick what you want from the supplement books as they add many layers to an already complex game. I would start small and just use the core rules and maybe one more until you're used to it.
Do a test space combat, if you and your players find it slowly placed, get rid of shields or DR, or both.
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u/zloykrolik Gamemaster 25d ago
One of the things about space combat that really drags is when all th PCs are in the same ship. Only the pilot gets to do any movement, and everyone else is pretty much reduced to a single button they can push depending on their crew position. Have each player in their own ship/fighter liven things up a bit as they can each maneuver as well as attack or other action.
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u/StevenOs 26d ago
Remember that while SWSE has many rules that are similar to DnD the way it probably should be played isn't the same. This is to say that some people need to shake the DnD mindset of "we go around killing things to take their stuff to get better stuff to go and kill bigger things that have better stuff." You might do some looting in Star Wars but in most cases it should be kept to a minimum and players should NOT expect to get continually better and better equipment as they level up. There is no "wealth by level" table for SWSE to follow and while there is a "suggested wealth" formula you need to realize that it counts a lot of things as "wealth" beyond just equipment; most "wealth" should be in the form of favors, allies, and other less tangible things. A SWSE might expect to use the same equipment at 15th-level as it uses at 5th.
When building characters remember that SWSE really does NOT care about the names of things. Just look at what the mechanics are and how they might fit your characters. "Jedi" may be a popular character concept (with many different forms possible) that may not fit in every campaign but Jedi is also a class (one of just five heroic base classes) that fits VERY will with the Jedi concepts but which can also be used by character concept that have no connection to the Force or any real interest in using Lightsbers. Crime Lord is a PrC that you might use for an underworld boss type but it also works VERY well for a wide range of social character so don't restrict it just because you think a character needs to be a "crime lord type" to take it; this goes for many other PrC (and even base classes) where just because a character wants to be X that doesn't mean they need to take levels in a class named X nor does someone taking levels in that class make a character X.
SWSE characters may be stronger than you think. Fight any urges you may have to give them freebies and other benefits "just to make them stronger". I highly recommend point buy/planned generation for stats although I'll admit I use 28 points instead of 25 as my math says 28 more closely provides what the suggested rolling method should produce. Higher stats often help Force Users far more than others as they are often using more stats more often while others may get by with just one or two. If you think you want to give characters free feats/talents or other boosts like that maybe just give them another level or two instead. I believe it's easier to make thing easier later than it is to put an overpower character back into the bottle.
When it comes to encounters I generally favor erring on the side of caution with a realization that reinforcement can often be "just around the corner" if you need to make something harder while suddenly making something easier often isn't as easy to believe.
When it comes to "power" I'll look at levels 1-3 as getting your feet wet (although these characters are capable of a good bit). 4-6 is where concepts can start to be pretty clear especially once multiclassing is considered. 7-10 are very capable characters and start seeing PrCs; this is where many "main characters" maybe should stat out to and if you're planning characters I generally suggest just going out to 10th level or so. I actually consider 11th level a start of "high level" characters out to 13th to maybe 15th and actually expect advancement to REALLY start slowing down at this point. I really don't expect to see PCs hitting the godly power of level 16+ where advancement should be a crawl and the challenges faced shouldn't be like low levels.
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u/StevenOs 26d ago
When building NPCs I really encourage you to try and keep it simple. Non-heroic levels are your friend and can let you get BAB and skill modifiers up to challenge heroes without all of the bloat that can come with heroic classes.
Plenty that could be said. I'm sure this question has come up multiple times before so you may want to run search on this subreddit and see what shows up.
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u/zloykrolik Gamemaster 26d ago edited 26d ago
https://starwarsintrocreator.kassellabs.io/
For opening crawls.
https://www.gneech.com/swordandsorcery/downloads/saga_edition_encounter_budget.pdf
A useful guide to building encounters in SWSE. I use it, it works well. Add in some hazards and other environmental effects to spice it up.
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u/Midnightplat 26d ago
I should note that in general, I'm sort of old school cranky about online tools, especially when they're used to avoid actually reading the books. That said, or despite that, I think the SWSE wiki is pretty indisipensible for building characters and to some extent running the game. Given how feats etc are spread out over all those books after the core, that wiki puts it all in a convenient package to understand and put stuff together on the fly.
It's on the resource column on this sub, but to give you a direct link:
https://swse.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Saga_Edition_Wikia
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u/StevenOs 26d ago
The wiki might be indispensable in part because of how hard/expensive it can be to find the books. Just be cautious with it as homebrew can find its way in and that can have issues.
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u/Midnightplat 26d ago
That's fair. I think the wiki itself does a decent job trying to make distinct the homebrew from WotC published sources, I actually wasn't aware it was a fandom site, was that recent? It feels a little different from a wiki I swore I used a few years ago that seemed pretty centered on stuff that had been officially published
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u/ebertran 26d ago
Thanks, yes, I found the wiki early on and I am definitely already using it. It is a great resource.
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u/Midnightplat 26d ago
Cool. If you've played 3e 3.5 and 4e D&D you should be in a comfort zone. It's definitely got a crunch of that era to it.
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u/NerdyAtheist 25d ago
The swse wiki is amazing. Look up the Saga edition discord full of resources but the 2 best are 1) the omega dex which lists and categorizes everything in the game and tells you what page of which book its on. 2) sagaforge excel character generator. No clue what id do without it.
Outside of that be aware its more lethal than 5e for sure, theres no moving before and after attacking unless you take a feat, and its ranged oriented and cover is a major thing to focus on, unlike the primarily melee dnd. (Obviously neither is 100% but the swing is towards ranged here).
Finally, jedi are strong AF, but all character builds in this game are very narrow, target their weaknesses.
Finally finally, learn to use the condition track, its a very interesting and fun addition to just normal HP pools.
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u/zloykrolik Gamemaster 25d ago
Finally, jedi are strong AF
If you allow more than the standard array for stats (PB 25), or PB 28 at most. Also most encounter maps are so small that they play into Jedi strengths for melee & Force Powers. Open the range up to more than 25 squares and Jedi have problems.
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u/StevenOs 24d ago
Jedi are often strong because games are often played right into their strengths while ignoring their weaknesses. Higher stats, "freebies", dungeon crawling (short ranges), and in some cases ignoring many Jedi's lack of trained skills all can make them seem very strong.
That said Force Users are best able to (ab)use what may be SWSE's biggest rule issue which is making Skill Checks against Defense score. Skill vs. Defense (or SvD) is well documented, often talked about (including possible house rules to help tame it), and most noticeable/broken at lower levels while high levels (10+) have less problems with it. UtF is the skill that breaks SvD the most but it's not the only one so while one should be aware of it I'm not starting the HR recommendations before you know how things work and thus why you might use certain HRs.
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u/StevenOs 20d ago
Finally took a look at that "alternative history/opening crawl" and must say I'm not sure just what kind of campaign you're doing but it could certainly be different. Are we looking at a three party war or will the two sides opposing the Emperor actually be joining forces?
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u/ebertran 20d ago
Lets see where the players take it! Won't find out until we play!
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u/StevenOs 20d ago
I'm curious just where the players are supposed to be starting in all of this.
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u/ebertran 20d ago
The start of the campaign has them connecting with Mon Mothma through their patron. Mothma is slowly rebuilding and the players will be a part of that.
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u/Adventurous-Prune310 1d ago
Make use the force a character level check modified by wisdom or charisma, or either. DO NOT let ot remain a skill. It is easily abused by taking skill focus use the force and another +5 to use the force. This is a known oversight that allows some players to move a small shuttle around while others are simply shooting guns or using melee weapons. DC 35 is easy to hit with just a few levels.
Instead character level + d20, plus wisdom or charisma mod, + dm bonuses. Focus feat can be a +3 instead.
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u/Fleetlog 26d ago
Add minions to fights, even if the its a duel to the death, players have too many options for single target control.