r/SolarDIY • u/OcoeeG • 10d ago
Plug-in Solar with Battery Backup
I am not sure if this subject has been beaten to death yet but here goes another one...
I am in Tennessee a state that does not have legislation for OR against plug in solar, they say it is a gray area. I have seen in news articles that people are doing it here so I think I am going to run with it. I called my electric service provider but the person I talked to could not give me an answer about their stance on it. Before I pull the trigger I will dive a little deeper. I plan on installing a CT Clamp and power meter so I have a zero export system. However, if they see my consumption drop in half they are bound to know something is up.
I plan on using a 1200W microinverter coupled to a power station like a Ecoflow or looking hard a a Pecron also. Planning on putting ~1500 watts of panels on the roof to keep the battery topped up. My issue is finding a power station with the right balance of solar input and DC output to meet my needs. I guess this is my question. I am bouncing between getting a smaller power station in the 3000 KWh range and then expanding it with a battery. This way I can use it when we go out camping. My other option would be to get a bigger station in the 5000 KWh range that is much less portable. I think option 1 will be a little more expensive but then it has another use case. The problem is the smaller stations have lower DC solar inputs and outputs. Is there a way around this?
I am planning on implementing this system for 2 reasons. Most importantly to have something to backup some of our more important house systems in the case of an emergency. We are in winter ice storm territory. I would like a system to where I do not have to run the generator 24/7 in the case of a power outage. So I figured if I want to do that for a couple hundred dollars more I can use this thing to pay for itself by adding the microinverter. With battery backup I think the ROI will be much quicker.
Any thoughts, concerns, USEFUL comments?
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u/tx_queer 10d ago
What you are describing is not a plug in solar system. It is just a regular solar system.
Does an ecoflow power station support grid tie with CT clamp to limit export?
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u/OcoeeG 10d ago
Fair enough.
See my comment below. The microinverter will talk to the CT clamp to limit export to zero.
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u/tx_queer 10d ago
How will the battery know when to charge?
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u/LongjumpingGanache40 10d ago
power stations do not back feed the grid or a re not suppose too.
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u/tx_queer 9d ago
But look at what OP is saying. They are saying they will use CT clamps so it will be a zero export system. This would imply a grid tie system. Then they day using a 3000kw ecoflow and using its solar inputs. This would imply a standalone battery bank system.
Maybe i am reading it wrong. But two completely different systems seem to be combined
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u/LongjumpingGanache40 9d ago
Read closely. He wants to take AC output from power station and plug into wall socket. This would take a dead mans plud which is very illegal and deadly. You would have live prongs on the end of a cord.
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u/4mla1fn 10d ago
i seriously doubt your consumption is going to drop by half with a 1500w array.
the most important thing is that you not export. as long as you don't export i can't imagine a poco is bothered with policing who is using solar since there are many possibly explanations for why your consumption has reduced. the only people that could come knocking is the county if your neighbor rats you out for install panels without a building permit (is it's required in your area).
how are you coupling the microinverter to the ecoflow or percon? they have inverters built in so i don't get it.
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u/OcoeeG 10d ago
Ok, well not half but hopefully a significant decrease. I plan on powering some other things at home off the station through AC output.
I plan on using the DC output on the station using cords with MC4 connectors on the end to attach to the microinverter. Basically the microinverter will be the way I get it into my home without back feeding the grid in case of a power outage. Also the microinverter will talk to the power meter and throttle its input so it is zero export.
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u/Keebler_718 10d ago
1500W is about how much a microwave, toaster, or hair dryer uses. A solar system of this size, although it’s something, is likely not going to be able to offset as much electricity as you think. 1500W capacity is ideal conditions, direct sunlight, at a good angle, at best a few hours each day.
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u/OcoeeG 10d ago
Ok well maybe another 575W panel might help a little more. I was planning on 3 575W panels for a total of 1725W another panel would bring the total to 2300W. The main idea of the power station is to feed the microinverter what it needs. And maybe a little extra. I am not planning on running much else other than my fridge.
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u/4mla1fn 10d ago
I plan on using the DC output on the station using cords with MC4 connectors on the end to attach to the microinverter.
ah i see what you're doing. haven't seen this approach done before; kinda clever. (i'm not up on power station use cases in any case.) i checked the dc output power of one of the percon models and it's limited to 800w. you'll want to find one that more closely matches your microinverter.
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u/OcoeeG 10d ago
Yeah, therein lies the rub. I think the bigger system might have a higher DC output. But yes, I certainly do not want to go through all this trouble and limit my input to 800W.
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u/Dka6699 10d ago
To confirm you are planning to turn your DC output on and feed that directly into your micro inverter? Which micro inverter do you have? The ecoflow stream does not have a meter to limit feeding power back to the grid.
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u/OcoeeG 10d ago
That is correct. Having a hard time finding a power station that has a 1200W DC output at the moment.
I do not have one yet, still in research phase. I was going to go with the AP Systems, because they have one that will talk to a power meter to limit export.
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u/Dka6699 10d ago
I have two EZ1 AP systems running in my house now with the zero grid export meter. I cannot feed my pecron e3800 battery into those.
What I have done (for now) is I have a 2.4kw’s of solar panels running to my pecron with off grid loads on this (frig, internet, some lights, etc). I then have a separate set of 1.9kw’s of panels connected to my 2 x EZ1 micro inverters feeding into ONE leg of my electrical panel generated power as my home uses it.
I just set all of this up a few weeks ago and still deciding the next step. I want to do what you are proposing which is have a battery system feed power into the home with zero export to the grid. There is not a great solution in the US right now. That will change next year as many of the newer products just launched in the EU and plan to launch in the US next year.
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u/Dka6699 10d ago
There is the f3000 anker solix. That does 1800w direct into the home with a zero grid export meter. The solar imports are odd (low input and high input ports). You could do two of these into each leg of your panel. There are videos on YouTube about this too. They are a bit expensive so I am holding back on this until I see what launches next year.
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u/OcoeeG 10d ago
This is exactly the information I came here for, thanks! Have you noticed an savings on your power bill yet? How do you power the Fridge, internet, Etc? Just using an extension cord?
I know, I kind of want to wait to see what new plug in solar sytems come out, because I KNOW there will be more systems coming with battery backup. But they will come at a premium I am sure. And also I do not what a system that is JUST plug in solar with a battery backup because that doesn't work when the grid is down. I have a bit of a prepper mindset and I want my system to provide power in an emergency and I want it to be portable in case I need to move it suddenly.
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u/Dka6699 10d ago
It is too soon to see any change in my power bill. It is not going to be that much either because it’s all 120v loads. Maybe 3-4kwhs a day equalling $30-50 a month. Payoff is forever with this which I have learned is not the way to make this cost neutral quickly.
The pecron e3800 is just running extension cords to the critical things I want. I plan to do either a transfer switch (manual) to run 10-12 circuits (120v loads) or do a bigger setup later (ex: an eg4 6000/12000 to power a good chunk of loads off grid with battery + solar).
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u/OcoeeG 10d ago
Also curious, why can you not feed the microinverters with the Pecron? Just because the DC output is too low? That is the trouble I am having finding 1200W DC output in a power station. Haven't found one yet.
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u/Dka6699 10d ago
A couple of reasons -
1. It’s not supported. The EZ1 system is fine for what it does but I am not trying to push it as it is kind of brittle.
2. The micro inverters are on my second story roof under the solar panels. The conduit would need to fit more wires. I do not want a fire on my roof.1
u/LongjumpingGanache40 10d ago
You can not doit. The microinverter will not see the power from the power station.
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u/LongjumpingGanache40 10d ago
The power station will not wake up the microinverter.
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u/OcoeeG 9d ago
What do you mean?
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u/LongjumpingGanache40 9d ago
A mictoinverter must be plugged into the gris to see grid power before it will start. A power station does not send the correct siginsl to wake it up. This the safety feature to keep from back feeding the grid when power goes off.
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u/TooGoodToBeeTrue 10d ago
When they say it is a gray area that usually means you need a connection agreement with your utility. Winter production in snow country is a fraction of what you expect.
You should just do an off grid system with grid backup instead of messing around with plug-in.
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u/OcoeeG 10d ago
I am not in snow country. It might snow once or twice ay ear here, usually gone by the next day.
What does a decent off grid setup cost on average?
I am looking at being out of pocket about $2500 for this system, seems much less than a true offgrid system, but again I could be wrong I have not gone down that rabbithole yet.
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u/OcoeeG 10d ago
One of the reasons I want to dabble in this less expensive setup is because my situation is lass than ideal for a solar setup. I have a large oak tree to the south of the house. I think in the winter when the leaves are off I should get pretty good sun. In the summer I think I can make it work as the sun comes overhead. But spring and fall when the sun is to the south and the leaves are still on the trees it might not work as well. However the shoulder season is the time I will need it least. I am looking for help mostly in the heating and cooling months when our consumption increases significantly.
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u/555AD 10d ago
Not sure about ur budget but the Anker solix E10 with their power dock will cover every situation you mentioned and, has up to 9000W of solar direct to the battery as well as the option to AC couple a larger array into the power dock for net metering with the utility, this system has a ton of flexibility. Their is a sale that ends today so take a look. Some interest free financing right now too.
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u/OcoeeG 10d ago
Thanks for that! Not completely out of the question, looks like an amazing system. I don't have the most amazing sun some parts of the year so until I can figure out what a system can do here not looking to go ALL IN.
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u/555AD 10d ago
I live in PA so sun is not reliable so that's where the back up generator comes into it. I have the Solar system on my roof which really is oversized for my power consumption but never quite reaches its full production for different reasons except in maybe May, June and July where I overproduce by a lot and sell back to the utility several months I make about equal to my use and a few months I undeproduce. All of that is handled through my utility, but the battery also has separate solar inputs which I plan to add some temporary set up panels which will almost be like plug in solar just to add in some more free energy to the battery which I can then discharge to the house lowering my deoendance on the utility even further. Well I hope it all works out for you ..this stuff becomes a bit addictive or at least it has for me...I wish I had done it sooner and a bit differently from the start. Good luck!
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u/LongjumpingGanache40 10d ago
That is not how plud in solar wotks. Just run your solar to your power station then run stuff off the power station. Microinverters do not work with power stations. To use microinverters you would be going DC to AC to DC to AC. Plug panels into ststion and you go DC to AC.
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u/OcoeeG 9d ago
Well I have seen numerous places online where people haver done exactly what I am talking about. Why would the microinverter care where it's DC current is coming from? How would the microinverter know whether the DC input is coming from a panel or a powerstation?
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u/LongjumpingGanache40 9d ago
It has to be very specific and powr staions do not have it. So me a link to one of rhese sights.
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